Congressional default is about to make us proud peers to the Nazis

reply to post by Carreau


I disagree quite strongly. Do you think it is right that we are forced to get our healthcare meted to us by a heavily profit-oriented body of companies? You think it is right that a person can be denied access to medical care because they happen to be sick? To me that is an absurdity.

Yes, the ACA is VERY unconstitutional. I think that forcing people to do business with a profit driven company for their basic needs, which that has the sole right to deny them the right to life is equally unconsitutional, to the letter.

How do you propose dealing with the problem of people with medical problems being unable to acquire care?

Carreau
reply to post by khimbar

 

So according to you the "paper money" fails and then THEY swoop in and buy all the assets with............paper money.

Well that brought something to the party........er I mean thread. What insight, how profound. I learn something new here everyday. You sir get a star. A shiny gold star for the special students.

Yes, exactly that. It's not complicated.

I'll ignore the rest of your ad hominem, vaguely offensive comment as it would be too easy to fall into a pointless battle of insults with you. And I really can't be bothered to argue with some random on the internet who can't think past 'special student' as an insult.

reply to post by joeraynor


I grow tired of arguing with leftist. Government policy and mandates and regulations raised the cost of health care in this nation and then the final solution to the government caused problem is MORE government. If you don't see the fallacy in that argument there is no point in continuing this discussion.

I'll leave you to the "I'm gonna call the other team names" thread. As far as I'm concerned you're only made at HALF of the same team.

Willtell
reply to post by Carreau

 

Your the one who is confused. To blackmail the country into destruction is not the way to accomplish anything...and no body is going to jail for not getting health insurance.

edit on 14-10-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

Yet, the other side is doing essentially the same thing...refusing to give in unless they get what they want. Why blame congress alone when the Senate and the Administration are just as culpable about refusing to give an inch?

reply to post by Carreau


The IRS has no authority to put people who don't get insurance in jail

BTW I don't like the provision either, but you don't bring down the country over it. You fight to get that rule thrown out.

reply to post by Carreau


I do not support the democratic party. I think they are one side of the demonic coin.

It is notable however that under democratic presidents, the cost of healthcare tends to stagnate at around the same cost, whereas under Republican presidents it has climbed every single time, by double digit percentage points.

I think you make an error for blaming the left solely for this healthcare mess. To fail to see both parties as culpable in what has been inflicted on the American people is to fail to fully appreciate the problem we are living under. Deregulation of a monopoly industry (in many counties there is ONE insurance provider) is as much at fault as blind regulation has been.

reply to post by Carreau


Actually the IRS can't do much to recoup THIS tax..they can't take a lean on property, can''t seize monies from accounts, and can't put you in jail. The only way they can recoup is admitting to not having it and if you have a return coming.

Finally, there is the issue of whether the IRS can collect the tax if someone refuses to either buy insurance or pay the fine. The ACA says the IRS should enforce the law by imposing a tax penalty—but then effectively blocks the agency from using most of the tools it normally uses to go after tax scofflaws. The ACA bars the IRS from bringing a criminal enforcement case against someone who refuses to pay the non-insurance penalty. And it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for it to enforce a tax lien. Law professors Jordan Barry and Bryan Camp have a nice piece in Tax Notes explaining it all. That leaves only one tool—the IRS can subtract the penalty from any refund it owes a taxpayer. But that applies only if the IRS happens to owe somebody a refund. These days, two-thirds of taxpayers get one, but it is usually their choice.

Obamacare: Tax Or Penalty? Call It What You Want, But IRS Won't Be Able To Collect It

reply to post by Willtell


Beat me too it..

reply to post by joeraynor


I just posted BOTH were part of the same team. But for the sake of argument please list all Republicans in the Senate that voted for the ACA.

Carreau
reply to post by joeraynor

 

I just posted BOTH were part of the same team. But for the sake of argument please list all Republicans in the Senate that voted for the ACA.

I misunderstood what you intended by "team". At least we seem to be in agreement about that. I doubt very many R's voted for the ACA, but then the problem didn't start then. It began with a gradual climb in healthcare costs since Nixon. The ACA is just the most recent face of the train wreck.

reply to post by khimbar

Because no other country is going to go along with it ...Well I think there will be some hold out Nations if they can keep their status long enough . These old geographical lines in the sand will not work in the future ..Look at Afghanistan and Pakistan and how that line drawn by some Anglo many years ago worked ..It didn't and it wont .If the USA fails as a Nation State ,will it go back to what it was just before it became one ? This whole NWO thing is coming weather we want it or not .When the fat cats shut down there old scam and try to bring out the new there may be some problems . I think of it like in the early history of Canada it was what do they do with the Indian problem .Next it will be what do we do with the citizen problem . But you know they never really did deal with the Indian problem they had .You talk about property but that was the problem for the Anglo's to begin with .I think they were hoping that after a few decades everyone would forget ... It's like someone stealing a car and having it hid for many years and then trying to sell it to a new owner ...peace

reply to post by joeraynor


ACA passed by a Congress controlled both House and Senate by dems and signed into law by a dem President. But you want to assign blame to just the repubs because they are trying to stop funding of it.

If you really think the ACA is wrong you should be applauding the repubs not calling them Nazis and condemning them.

reply to post by joeraynor

I doubt very many R's voted for the ACA

Not a single repub voted in favor of the ACA in either the House or Senate. So yeah I guess you could say "not very many". Your anger is misdirected.

Carreau
reply to post by joeraynor

 

ACA passed by a Congress controlled both House and Senate by dems and signed into law by a dem President. But you want to assign blame to just the repubs because they are trying to stop funding of it.

They have every right and reason to stop it. They don't have every right and reason to stop at nothing to stop it.

As I said earlier, having your pencil stolen doesn't give you the right to steal the thief's car. The time to talk about repealing it is after the default has been avoided. The default is only a good thing if you are rooting for a far swifter and more violent collapse. You don't argue over what's for dinner while the kitchen is on fire. Nor do you threaten to let the whole house burn down if the choice isn't steak.

If the American people don't like the full force of the ACA (and I very much doubt they will) they will respond by electing a heavy R majority to both houses to swiftly repeal it. That is the demcratic way. Not this insanity.

Comparing this to the Nazis is stupid. I mean why is it everybody must try to equate things to the Nazis. The funny part is this is not even the first time we have defaulted. We did so in 1790 and we also did so in the 1930s sort of, we paid just not in the way were suppose to. The list of countries that have never defaulted is pretty small (Canada, Denmark, Belgium, Finland, Malaysia, Mauritius, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, Switzerland and England). Other than that everybody has. Some nations like Greece spent 90 years of existance in default. Spain defaulted 6 times a record. Russia defaulted in 1998. And so it goes with about one country a year on average. Of course the US defaulting is not a good thing nor should we allow it to happen but, lets try and keep things in perspective here. Nazis? Really? How is anybody suppose to a subject serious when you take to that level.

Is this our future?
Written on a gravestone
In dark places
Where eagles dare not roam
Only ghosts of our past
And omens of the age
The age of the beginning of darkness!

reply to post by MrSpad


None of you guys is getting that it is extreme satirical hyperbole not to be taken seriously. Is "Team America" a history documentary?

The fact that defaults are common in the history of the world doesn't make it OK for us to do so at this juncture.

How many of those countries defaulted on their debts while they had the title of "world reserve currency" attached to their money? The US has far more to lose due to its socioeconomic position as reserve than pretty much any of those nations did at their times of default.

In fact, the only thing holding us up is the petro-dollar agreement we made with first the Saudis and then the rest of OPEC following the end of the Breton Woods agreement. Most people have no idea what will happen if the petrodollar system collapses, and that situation places the US default in a very special light.

Our government is so strongly against losing the petro-dollar system that Saddam's choice to trade oil in Euro's is probably most of the reason for the Iraq war. And yet they would jeopardize it over something like this?

reply to post by joeraynor


Oh my! Your talking reasonable...that's a rare thing in this time of delusions and the height of unreasonableness.

reply to post by beezzer

I'll be happy when ATS gets a doom-porn section.

You have a pretty funny idea of what "Doom-porn" is.

I consider Ison, Fema massacres, and "earth destroyed on October xx 2013" to be Doom-porn.

The default is a very real thing that even CNN admits they are frightened of. We know exactly when and why it could happen. We know every detail almost.

Being somewhat nervous about things with a double digit percentage of happening this week is doom-porn to you?

1937 upload.wikimedia.org...