MtDna shows Ashkenzi Jew are genetically European

Of course that doesn't address the Mizrahi Jews

reply to post by LABTECH767


Those are pretty strong words.

I happen to no longer be a believer but have had an interest in mtDNA and lineage, esp of Sarah, for a long time, thus my interest in this subject.

The main point, from a genetic heritage standpoint, lineage runs through the female. Ashkenazi Jews don't have the same matrilineal heritage as Sephardic and Mizrahi.

reply to post by liveandlearn


I have read that genetic studies showed that the European genetics of Jews was due to a huge population reduction of other groups.

The kazars who supposedly usurped the jews did not in fact do so. The genetic evidence shows that only the nobility of the khazars bought into a lesser priesthood of the jewish faith. The highest priesthood could not be bought into.

They made up less than 10% of total jews. Later after subsequent slaughters and plagues and such, other groups were greatly reduced which left the once few European khazars with the largest population which married into remaining jewish groups.


What's more the genetic evidence shows that male jewish men took on native European wives as their communities spread into Europe. It makes sense too since lone Jewish men would forge ahead alone to gain enough income to bring their families along with them.

The same happened in the US where male jews would buy packs of trade goods in port cities once arriving and head towards the frontier to sell them, marrying into local populations as they went.

They are no less jews. Populations change as time passes.

I consider myself as an American of English descent. I have an English surname. However I'm only 1/8 English, the rest is Irsh, Scots, American Indian and 50% Danish. I identify with England.

My son would be 1/16 English and he would still have the same surname and probably ID with England.

My great grandson would be 1/64th English (presuming they all married non-English spouses) and still have a English surname and perhaps a fondness for England too. Sometimes it not just the genetics.

reply to post by Hanslune


Very true.

Identity with an ancestral country is not necessarily derived from genetics, but by origin. My family is one of the five original families that settled what is now New York City, moving from there into New Jersey. Some went to Canada, my strand went to the Ohio Valley where we have remained for two centuries. By genetics, I'm only very slightly Dutch, but my genetics I'm more German, since my great grandfather was a German immigrant to this country. My children have the same surname, but are more Cherokee and Choctaw (1/16 each) than they are Dutch. But the genetics are there.

reply to post by RidgeWalker


I agree with you both.

My interest lies in the question Why is the lineage matrilinial? Is there something special about this particular female line? Were they royal? Was their something special about the DNA itself? Was it manipulated by Sumerians? If so why?

When they became patriarchal, the maternal line was essentially covered up.

reply to post by liveandlearn


Why? Because you always know who the mother is - the father not so easy.

If this is true then wouldn't the Zionist claim to Israel be null and void? Or did God for some reason change their genetics.

reply to post by buster2010


Look up mizrahi

reply to post by Hanslune


Yes, Occam's razor is often best. However, it does not explain why the men in Abraham's line had to return to Sarah's family for a wife. This appears to be where the lineage started or maybe it is that the story was so well known it had to be placed in the bible.

reply to post by Hanslune

Hanslune
reply to post by liveandlearn

 

Why? Because you always know who the mother is - the father not so easy.

That is the simplest and most likely answer.

The only case where this wouldn't be true is if anyone who can validate a child's alternative maternal parent withholds that information. In other words, everybody lies about it.

In any event, a female child of a converted Jewish mother and native Jewish father would be brought up in a traditional Jewish home with Jewish customs. In the next generation or two, it would probably be (probably conveniently) forgotten.

I suspect that once the proto-Ashkenazim established a sufficient genetic stock, they began practicing endogamy. Then they instituted the legend of an unbroken matrilineal inheritance all the way back to Abraham's wife.

Either way, I think of the Jewish community as a distinct ethnocultural group. However they wish to define membership in that group is their business.



Dex

reply to post by buster2010


Remember, a converted Jew, as apparently the women of Ashkenazic Judaism were, somehow become Jewish.

Hanslune
reply to post by buster2010

 

Look up mizrahi

The term Mizrahi is most commonly used in Israel to refer to Jews who trace their roots back to Muslim-majority countries. This includes descendants of Babylonian Jews from modern Iraq, Syria, Bahrain, Azerbaijan, Iran, Lebanon, India, Uzbekistan, Kurdish areas and Jews from Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are not from Palestine so how can they have a claim to Israel?

reply to post by buster2010


I would think that the Jewish people considered that those folks came from an earlier version of Israel, before scattering about the rest of the world.

and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the planet Earth book "Jewish Pilgrim" ... one of the ways to solve this problem in a one generation to stop seeding them explicitly and crypto women is 100% of their children are not your .red blood from Adam and blue alien Blood snake Lilith

mangust69
and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the planet Earth book "Jewish Pilgrim" ... one of the ways to solve this problem in a one generation to stop seeding them explicitly and crypto women is 100% of their children are not your .red blood from Adam and blue alien Blood snake Lilith

I have no idea who you are replying to but where is the information/documentation that Adam ever had a child with Lilith?

reply to post by buster2010

Ironically there is an answer to this question of yours in Christianity. What happened was this. According to Jesus Christ John the Baptist was Elijah the prophet. But if you read Malachi 4 it is implied that if Elijah was prevented from doing his part in the first century Apocalypse then a curse would be triggered. And this section of Matthew 21 is about the curse.

Matthew 21

32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Irony indeed. This is the Akanazi Jews best claim to Israel. They are the replacements.

And the Palestinians and the Arabs? Semitic Jews by blood. They're the ones under the curse.

reply to post by liveandlearn
it should be in the form of links, pdf, dvd? can 100% prove that they did not take the form of all races and peoples are the elite of all countries and waging a war with the natives destroying the archives and library the truth itself himself in the history of p.s. Despite all this, legend states that she did go back to Adam briefly, and bore three sons: Shedim, Lilin,Rauchin. These she took with her when she left the final time,and arabic legend daughter Nadilya

LABTECH767
reply to post by liveandlearn

 

Does it matter as long as they believe and love god with all there heart's, Jacob was told by Ya in his vision at Luz which he thereafter called Bethel that his children would number more than the stars of heaven and more than the sand's of the earth which only Ya whom had made them knew the real number of and that his children would be scattered into every nation and every family of man until all the world were his descendant's, he also told him that only a small number would remain true to his name (now weather you interpret that as Faith or Lineage is irrelevant because the only interpretation that matters if Ya's own one) and that he would bring them back to that place when he had fullfilled his promise and raise them up to his throne setting them as kings and rulers over all the earth.

Though I am christian I have some Jewish ancestry and it matters not to me so only a Nazi minded racial superiority fanatic would ever believe it did matter.

Interesting thread though.

edit on 14-10-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

You just called the entire nation of Israel and all the Jews "racial superiority Nazi fanatics" because it sure in the hell matters to them.

Can't really say I disagree with you much, other than to say that not ALL Jews or citizens of Israel are like that...that's just ignorant. Haven't you ever heard of Jews Against Zionism for example? Gosh, they aren't all bad...mainly the "leaders" are the problem like in most nations.

reply to post by liveandlearn


The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting
the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses
Eran Elhaik1,2,*
1Department of Mental Health, Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health December 5, 2012

"The geographical origins of European Jews varied for different reference populations (fig. 4 and supplementary fig. S5, Supplementary Material online), but all the results converged to Southern Khazaria along modern Turkey, Armenia,
Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Eastern European Jews clustered tightly compared with Central European Jews in all analyses."

"We compared two genetic models for European Jewish ancestry depicting a mixed Khazarian–European–Middle Eastern and sole Middle Eastern origins. Contemporary populations were used as surrogates to the ancient Khazars and Judeans, and their relatedness to European Jews was compared over a comprehensive set of genetic
analyses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis depicting a large Near Eastern–Caucasus ancestry along with Southern European, Middle Eastern, and Eastern European ancestries, in agreement with recent studies and oral and
written traditions. We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaized Khazars, Greco–Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, and Judeans and that their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan."