MtDna shows Ashkenzi Jew are genetically European

I thought this question had been solved many years ago but apparently not.

live science

But depending on whether the lineage gets traced through maternal or paternal DNA or through the rest of the genome, researchers got very different answers for whether Ashkenazi originally came from Europe or the Near East.

Past research found that 50 percent to 80 percent of DNA from the Ashkenazi Y chromosome, which is used to trace the male lineage, originated in the Near East, Richards said. That supported a story wherein Jews came from Israel and largely eschewed intermarriage when they settled in Europe. [The Holy Land: 7 Amazing Archaeological Finds]

Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.

All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.

Though I was somewhat familiar with the previous study apparently I had forgotten it was on male DNA. I have known for many years that Jewish lineage is traced through the mother. I have a current Jewish friend who had affirmed this for me.

Consider that Abraham married his half sister by a different mother. Issac, their son, was intructed to go to his mother's family for a wife as was Issac's son Jacob. (The reason or details are not explained but it is implied).

If this is not enough may I offer the below link and please feel free to look for you own.

beingjewish.com

The original and current Jewish definition of a born Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. Even though the Torah forbids a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile man, if she does, her children will still be Jewish. The Torah also forbids a Jewish man to marry a Gentile woman, and if he does, his children by that woman will not be Jewish.

A few hundred years later it was okay to marry a women who had converted to the Jewish religion. They mystically became Jewish. I suspect they forgot what their heritage was about.

Patrilineal Dna is passed only from male to male, never to female. mtDNA is passed to both daughter and son. This would explain why heritage stems from the female. If the son of a Jewish mother does not marry the daughter of a Jewish mother, their children do not get mtDNA. Makes one question; what is it about mtDNA? I have my own theory on that but that is the subject of another 'speculative' thread.

additional links.
haaretz

It is my hope that this will be an open discussion with no derogatory remarks. If you disagree, feel free to post your evidence.

Also, to be sure, I am a 'jack (thinker of all things) of all trades, master of none'.

edit on 13-10-2013 by liveandlearn because: (no reason given)

reply to post by kimish


Yes, that is why I waited several days to post. In fact, I post very little controversial issues because of the lack of thoughtful consideration by a few posters.

Hate seeing a thread turn into a rant between a couple or three people. I just will not respond.

Hate to cite Wikipedia, but what you posted does seem to give some credence to what Arthur Koestler claimed in his book "The Thirteenth Tribe"

The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) is a book by Arthur Koestler, which advances the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people.

Koestler's hypothesis is that the Khazars (who converted to Judaism in the 8th century) migrated westwards into Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.

Obviously, the book caused quite a controversy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maluhia
Hate to cite Wikipedia, but what you posted does seem to give some credence to what Arthur Koestler claimed in his book "The Thirteenth Tribe"

The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) is a book by Arthur Koestler, which advances the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people.

Koestler's hypothesis is that the Khazars (who converted to Judaism in the 8th century) migrated westwards into Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries when the Khazar Empire was collapsing.

Obviously, the book caused quite a controversy.

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 13-10-2013 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)

Yes, you are right and that has been the consensus until this recent research. That was never determined by DNA as far as I know but was a long standing belief. When male DNA was done and it found most came from near east, it was assumed their wives were converted Khazars, as best I can remember. Though I could be wrong.

reply to post by Maluhia


Apparently the study, referenced by the OP, of mtDNA refutes the Khazars hypothesis:

Virtually none came from the North Caucasus, located along the border between Europe and Asia between the Black and Caspian seas.

The finding should thoroughly debunk one of the most questionable, but still tenacious, hypotheses: that most Ashkenazi Jews can trace their roots to the mysterious Khazar Kingdom that flourished during the ninth century in the region between the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire, Richards and Ostrer said.

Dex

reply to post by Maluhia


The Radhanite merchants are said to have had a lot to do with the modern travels and settlements.

The Radhanites (also Radanites, Hebrew sing. רדהני Radhani, pl. רדהנים Radhanim; Arabic الرذنية ar-Raðaniyya) were medieval Jewish merchants. Whether the term, which is used by only a limited number of primary sources, refers to a specific guild, or a clan, or is a generic term for Jewish merchants in the trans-Eurasian trade network is unclear. Jewish merchants were involved in trade between the Christian and Islamic worlds during the early Middle Ages (approx. 500–1000). Many trade routes previously established under the Roman Empire continued to function during that period largely through their efforts. Their trade network covered much of Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia and parts of India and China.

Note the map shows Khazaria
Khazaria was an ancient central trading/merchant hub
The Radhanites

OP this has been proven beyond a doubt by two DNA peer reviewed studies yet it is kept quiet. The facts are;
DNA findings done by Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.

This backs up the DNA findings done by Dr. Ariella Oppenheim, of Hebrew University, a biologist. Dr. Ariella Oppenheim published the first extensive study of DNA and the origin of the Jews in 2001. Her research found that virtually all the Jews came from Khazar blood. Not only that but Dr. Oppenheim also discovered that the Palestinians—the very people whom the Jews have been persecuting and ejecting from Israel’s land since 1948—have more Israelite blood than did the Jews.

The simple fact of the matter is, the so called "Jews" are not "Jews" at all, have no right to the land they claim as theirs and nothing short of lairs and fraudsters usurping the rightful owners of the land.

The undeniable evidence of DNA continues to be swept under the rug to perpetuate the Jewish lie. Now there is a conspiracy if anyone cares to look and it really is not a conspiracy, it's a fact. Those that would throw the race card in this matter are throwing a false card. People are called anti-Semite if they say anything against the Jews or Israel. My question is; how could they be anti-Semite when the Jews are not Jews or of Semitic origin? Personally I have no hatred for them but they need to stop the genocide and stop claiming to be that which they are not.

SNIP

Funny enough, but the genetic decendants of the biblical Hebrews are (eta likely ) ( whats left of ) the modern Palistinians - they never left
...go figure eh?

So not only is there no such thing as a Jewish race of people thereby making Jews merely members of a religious group but they also are not even native to the Middle East area for the most part. If true then it's as if everyone who had Christian, Hindu or Muslim parents was hitherto regarded as a member of that religion to the extent it was indistinguishable from a racial designation and that in turn would be carried on to all offspring of the family line.

reply to post by liveandlearn

When male DNA was done and it found most came from near east, it was assumed their wives were converted Khazars, as best I can remember. Though I could be wrong.

Not being argumentative, just trying to learn - doesn't the jewish faith only consider the female to be the "carrier of the bloodline" and therefore the "faith"? So, if the women converted because they were told to, then they are not really jewish according to their own religion?

In human mitochondrial genetics, Haplogroup K is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup, defined by HVR1 mutations 16224C and 16311C.

Haplogroup K appears in West Eurasia, North Africa, and South Asia and in populations with such an ancestry. Haplogroup K is found in approximately 10% of native Europeans.[5][6] Overall mtDNA Haplogroup K is found in about 6% of the population of Europe and the Near East, but it is more common in certain of these populations. Approximately 16% of the Druze of Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, belong to haplogroup K. It was also found in a significant group of Palestinian Arabs.[7] K reaches a level of 17% in Kurdistan.[8]

Approximately 32% of people with Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry are in haplogroup K. This high percentage points to a genetic bottleneck occurring some 100 generations ago.[7] Ashkenazi mtDNA K clusters into three subclades seldom found in non-Jews: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. Thus it is possible to detect three individual female ancestors, likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool, whose descendants lived in Europe.[9]

The average of European K frequency is 5.6%. K appears to be highest in the Morbihan (17.5%) and Périgord-Limousin (15.3%) regions of France, and in Norway and Bulgaria (13.3%).[10] The level is 12.5% in Belgium, 11% in Georgia and 10% in Austria and Great Britain.[8]

Haplogroup K (mtDNA)

reply to post by xuenchen


It is getting toward my bedtime but must say I know nothing about this but will research tomorrow.

pstrron
OP this has been proven beyond a doubt by two DNA peer reviewed studies yet it is kept quiet. The facts are;
DNA findings done by Dr. Eran Elhaik (“a Jew”) and associates at the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. In research accepted December 5, 2012 and published by the Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society of Molecular Biology and Evolution, it was found that the “Khazarian Hypothesis” is scientifically correct.

This backs up the DNA findings done by Dr. Ariella Oppenheim, of Hebrew University, a biologist. Dr. Ariella Oppenheim published the first extensive study of DNA and the origin of the Jews in 2001. Her research found that virtually all the Jews came from Khazar blood. Not only that but Dr. Oppenheim also discovered that the Palestinians—the very people whom the Jews have been persecuting and ejecting from Israel’s land since 1948—have more Israelite blood than did the Jews.

The simple fact of the matter is, the so called "Jews" are not "Jews" at all, have no right to the land they claim as theirs and nothing short of lairs and fraudsters usurping the rightful owners of the land.

The undeniable evidence of DNA continues to be swept under the rug to perpetuate the Jewish lie. Now there is a conspiracy if anyone cares to look and it really is not a conspiracy, it's a fact. Those that would throw the race card in this matter are throwing a false card. People are called anti-Semite if they say anything against the Jews or Israel. My question is; how could they be anti-Semite when the Jews are not Jews or of Semitic origin? Personally I have no hatred for them but they need to stop the genocide and stop claiming to be that which they are not.

SNIP

edit on 10/13/2013 by Blaine91555 because: Comment intended to bait snipped.

I have to ask, were the studies of patrilineal DNA or mtDNA?

I saw studies many years ago that linked Palestinians with Jews but it is all about the mtDNA.

What is going on between them now seems to be of a religious nature.

I need to read and think more about this to make an inteligent reply but only after you have answered the question and you need to supply a link.

reply to post by Danbones


Quite - some of Islam's first converts were Jewish tribes as well..... Like you said, the irony of all this is that the real Semites are the people being persecuted by the Israeli's...

reply to post by liveandlearn

I have to ask, were the studies of patrilineal DNA or mtDNA?

According to the data collection portion in the online paper;

A total of 11,392 samples were assembled for mtDNA (6,089) and Y-chromosomal (5,303) analyses from 27 populations...

source: The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses.

It is a bit of a read and I hope that you enjoy your time with it.

Even with Dr. Eran Elhaik and Dr. Ariella Oppenheim's findings, I doubt that anything will be done to settle the plight of the Palestinians or the ME conflicts concerning Israel. Someone(s) has a vested interest in it continuing no matter what any DNA says. It is the people of the world that need to know the truth and not the official story. Let the DNA speak for itself, unless someone doesn't like what it says, then you have an agenda and the hiding of truth.

I always thought it was weird that the Jews in Israel don't look ANYTHING like the other native peoples in the region. They certainly do look more European than anything.

So why do they get their own special country again?

I am not,normally, a bible thumper but in this instance I will make an exception.

If you will read in the book of Revelations, chapter 3,verse 9; you will learn a lot about those who call themselves Jews and what is to come.

If any prophesy is to come about, surely this one has a good start. Those who are currently in charge have done this all to themselves and deserve what ever is headed their way.

reply to post by pstrron


Well, you were right it was quite a read. I got through about 1/4. I tried looking at some other studies as well. What I found was that many made the comparison with control groups by comparing a certain portion or area in the dna or genome (forgot what they were called). But the area's of comparison were often different.

The below article from escience news help to explain.

Archaeogenetics can help to resolve this dispute. Y-chromosome studies have shown that the male line of descent does indeed seem to trace back to the Middle East. But the female line, which can be illuminated by studies of mitochondrial DNA has until now proved more difficult to interpret. This would be especially intriguing because Judaism has been inherited maternally for about 2000 years.

We have settled this issue by looking at large numbers of whole mitochondrial genomes -- sequencing the full 16,568 bases of the molecule -- in many people from across Europe, the Caucasus and the Middle East. We have found that, in the vast majority of cases, Ashkenazi lineages are most closely related to southern and western European lineages -- and that these lineages have been present in Europe for many thousands of years.

reply to post by liveandlearn


Does it matter as long as they believe and love god with all there heart's, Jacob was told by Ya in his vision at Luz which he thereafter called Bethel that his children would number more than the stars of heaven and more than the sand's of the earth which only Ya whom had made them knew the real number of and that his children would be scattered into every nation and every family of man until all the world were his descendant's, he also told him that only a small number would remain true to his name (now weather you interpret that as Faith or Lineage is irrelevant because the only interpretation that matters if Ya's own one) and that he would bring them back to that place when he had fullfilled his promise and raise them up to his throne setting them as kings and rulers over all the earth.

Though I am christian I have some Jewish ancestry and it matters not to me so only a Nazi minded racial superiority fanatic would ever believe it did matter.

Interesting thread though.