A theory on UFO's, quantum mechanics and the nature of Reality.

LABTECH767
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

given that matter may have a phased state in which the parrallel reality's have the same mass in different locations, remember that at the sub atomic level the exact positon of matter or sub atomic particles can not be defined as at that level they are acting much like the photons in the apperture slit test in that they are demonstrating a field rather than particulate behaviour then if you can percieve or predict there positions with a high enough level of certainty and were the mind itself seem's to affect the quantumne nature or reality then mass may perhaps be coaxed to pass through mass by dint of the fact it doese not at that level of reality occupy the same space at all.

edit on 13-10-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

Yes, that's a very good point. Quantum superposition is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics that holds that a physical system—such as an electron—exists partly in all its particular theoretically possible states (or, configuration of its properties) simultaneously; but when measured or observed, it gives a result corresponding to only one of the possible configurations (as described in interpretation of quantum mechanics).
I think we are getting somewhere here. Because if something exists in all its possible states until its observed, then this would indicate that the same particle is in all possible times, at the same moment. "if you can perceive or predict there positions with a high enough level of certainty" Indeed, if the fixed position of every electron could be calculated for ...lets say 4.15 pm exactly 1000 year ago, then could you reestablish or reset matter to that exact position? This isn't what my original idea was about, because I didn't want to get bogged down with speculating how a worm hole might be created..but it's an idea. It's also just hit me, that with the dawning of quantum computers, we may be on the verge of the power to make such calculations. Just an idea.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


"..how many people really want to see the true face of reality and unravel everything you thought you knew, literally, including your very being? "

At the very end, that is the exact goal of the 'mystical path'.
That's why everyone talks about wanting to achieve some
'super state', but what they always want, is to have their
cake and to eat it too. And of course that doesn't get you
anywhere.

Now on the subject of quantum mechanics. It's far too easy
to invoke quantum mechanics as a form of 'quantum mysticism'.
Now I have nothing against mysticism, so long as one uses the
practice as a tool, and with wisdom.

You do bring up an interesting topic of course.. G/J !

I can't speak for people, but I think it's fair to say, that
most people consider that there are two kinds of UFO's

1. Mis-identified military aircraft, or possibly reverse
engineered alien tech (I'm not stating my opinion
on that)

and

2. Some sort of 'spiritual or transdimensional type
of phenomenon. (I'm not really interested in worrying
about the distinction here, if any).

Your quantum interpretation would definitely fall more
towards type 2.

Of course the problem with quantum phenomenon on
large scales is decoherence. For any type of quantum
type drive, there would have to be something like an
'infinite improbability shield' like in hitchhikers guide.
(which is a book of humor).

By the way.. a similar metaphor to your post was the
1956 movie "Forbidden Planet" with a 20-year old
Leslie Nielson. Wow! for the time, I'd have to give
the movie a 10 out of 10. In that movie, the aliens
created a powerful machine which created things
out of pure thought. In that movie, things didn't
turn out so well... would YOU want to be hooked
to an all-power machine which could make the
random impulses of your mind come true?

So while I enjoy your theory, I wonder why
(presumably) our future selves, or 'true'
selves (out of the matrix or whatever metaphor
you are using) have nothing better to create,
than 'teaser' UFO's and random cattle mutilations
and such?

Couldn't they at least bring back Elvis or something
really fun?

If WE are causing all this craziness (and I'm not saying
that we are not (I have my own private observations),

then 'we' don't have much of an imagination! Or this
is the UFO and damned to evil channel on galactic
television channel br-549 !

Keep up the good thinking!

Regards,

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


The more we learn the more we see yet even if we knew everything about this time space continuii and all it's variations throughout the quantum structure we would still not see the face of reality for there is still superspace to go and what exists beyond that.
Perhaps our physical body evolution can only go so far and it is time to begin our mental evolution into higher reality being's.

Just to get a bit metaphysical there.

reply to post by LABTECH767


If you were to ask my opinion, I'd say there is an
implicate order which containerizes quantum
mechanical realms and there is a slight leakage
which causes very slight variations in so-called
universal constants.

Yes, all paths are taken as per Feynman.. but that
is another discussion.

I'd also like to point out, that humans seem to
think that all of reality exists for their pleasure
and continued evolution to and beyond infinity.

Maybe we aren't that important. Maybe we
provide 'resources'. Maybe in fact, we are
composite creatures.

Maybe in fact, we exist for the benefit of another
life form or life forms.

If one thought in that direction, perhaps there
might be surprising intuitions available..........

;-)

KPB

chr0naut

TheBlackHat

...

Abracadabra. You sound like a scientist...sound like. You forget the double slit experiment, was the result of the experimenter discovering that by walking in and out of the room the results changed. From a particle to a wave pattern. Leaving a pattern of two slit impressions or three slit impressions depending on weather or not he was in the room.

That sounds more like folklore than the actual experiment (which I have performed several times). Here is a link to the experiment on Simple English Wikipedia

Also, a dimension has no thickness, physics and chemistry cannot occur in a single isolated dimension. I think when you use the word dimension, you should be using the words 'alternate reality'.

edit on 13/10/2013 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

Hugh Everett III
Multiple worlds theory. As with the other interpretations of quantum mechanics, the many-worlds interpretation is motivated by behavior that can be illustrated by the double-slit experiment. When particles of light (or anything else) are passed through the double slit, a calculation assuming wave-like behavior of light can be used to identify where the particles are likely to be observed. Yet when the particles are observed in this experiment, they appear as particles (i.e., at definite places) and not as non-localized waves.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


People often don't like the many worlds interpretation, because they
believe it violates the principle of sir William of Occam.

However in my observation, having all possible states/paths
pre-existing in a minimal ground state of energy, is in fact
the lowest energy state possible and the most stable one.

Should this observation be correct, it would exactly concur
with certain ancient texts which discuss the void and the
nature of substance, which existed even prior to consciousness.

Good stuff Maynard!

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Hi, I just read some of your introductory thread. You sound like an interesting character.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


We are all characters.

Are you familiar with the mediocrity principle?
If that's true, how do you avoid moral relativism?
Should we avoid moral relativism?

My observation is that humans evolved a survival
tactic called "insanity".

That is one reason that we are here now.

Of course 'insanity' is also another way to look at
creativity; so I don't mind some friendly insanity.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

We are all characters.

Are you familiar with the mediocrity principle?
If that's true, how do you avoid moral relativism?
Should we avoid moral relativism?

My observation is that humans evolved a survival
tactic called "insanity".

That is one reason that we are here now.

Of course 'insanity' is also another way to look at
creativity; so I don't mind some friendly insanity.

KPB

We are all characters but not all interesting ones, but that's a subjective opinion of course. I wont lie..I just hit Wikipedia for mediocrity principle..but I did understand moral relativism already...
Its off topic..but Ill take a shot a answering your questions.
Morality and social norms differ depending on the culture they arise from. So should one culture impose it's moral values on other cultures and assume a moral authority or superiority...
Well a totalitarian one world government would solve that argument...hahaha.
I used to get bogged down with the problems affecting the world...and I allowed those problems to affect me...and nobody won..
So when it comes to driving yourself insane...it is you who does the driving.
I don't drive.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Howdy Ho Neighbor,

Actually I was referring to 'the mediocrity principle in terms
of the cosmic inflationary theory of Professor Vilenkin
edge.org...
I did estimate you would look up the more mediocre form
of it, and thought that would be a good discussion as well.
And no shame in looking things up: I do it too.. I'm not
Sheldon Cooper.

I'd really like to apologize, if someone on ATS thinks I'm in
some form of intellectual contest with anyone. I'm a mere
flea on the scale of things, and there are many people with
tremendous skills and intelligence I don't have. The only
reason I bring this up, is because of the nature of my
sensory modalities; sometimes I'm wrong of course.

What I was getting at about in terms of moral relativism,
is that if one adopts a philosophical system where everything
is 'infinite', such as for example many worlds interpretation
and our 'clones' (the Vilenkin material is another form of
infinite worlds --- in so-called 'normal space), then one is
put into a moral dilemma.

If everything that can happen DOES happen, then why
does anything that I do matter? Especially if there are an
infinite number of clones of me out there in time and
space?

That really bent my noodle at first. I had to develop
what I call "Temporally Adjusted Buddhism" to make
sense of things. It's not really Buddhism. But those
ruminations did eventually lead me, in conjunction
with some really above top secret stuff to 'Home'.
Home for me anyway.

Now I do accept your words about the basis of
morality from a societal reference point. Most
people don't adopt a transfinite-clone-based
morality system, for sure.

As for 'driving oneself crazy'; indeed you are
wise in this matter.

I however decided to 'lean into the pain' of
'the world' and 'not knowing but must know'
and 'ripping away all my defense mechanisms'
and 'howling at the void' so to speak, when
I was in the 4-8 year-old neighborhood.

After a mere 40 some years of continuous
effort, all that did pay off. I got all my
answers; well most of them. I still don't
know jackola about ET's.. well that's not
perfectly true either.. but not much.

In any case, I'm sorry if I hijacked this
thread, it was not my intention. And
I want you to feel comfortable and
welcome in any of my discussions,
and I will value all of your words.

KPB

This is why I subscribe to UFO's coming from a higher dimension.. Both observers could have been correct in what they saw and in their explanation..

That would also explain how these crafts morph and do impossible maneuvers..

Now if they come from another dimension, does that make them spiritual in nature? I don't know.. From all the reading I've done on UFOs since the 70s.. I'm convinced they don't come from our universe..

reply to post by HooHaa


My observation is that 'spiritual' and 'physical' are caused
by the same core infrastructure.

Insofar as 'other dimensions' go, I'm not sure it really matters
whether we talk about displacement in time, space, or
dimension.

Since the technology to travel FTL seems so difficult, it's
intellectually enticing to propose a supposedly 'easier'
mechanism: like travelling in time or dimension is
easier! LOL.

But no, it's an interesting thought.

Now if we could only make a testable prediction based
upon such a premise!

Of course we are presuming that UFO's exist; it certainly
seems that *something* exists; perhaps once again, this
is all a mystery due to a lack of human imagination
along the correct line of inquiry.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I would say we are that important, the egg must give way that we may achieve this seed of purpose that dwell's within us and If we ever truly give up the only way is back down the evolutionary ladder, personally I do not like the idea of being an interdimensional plankton that helps to feen an alien ecosystem as I am that I am, Aware but trapped ever striving to break the constraint's that are upon me, though I may die and never achieve this still it is a worthy goal to try to ascend and maybe those things that feed upon us are actually there for us to ascend and feed upon.

It's a jungle out there but a very strange one.
A quantum ecosystem that exists at another tangent to the time space continuii that we physically percieve but as we grow we do mentally percieve it and therein is the seed of our evolution.

reply to post by HooHaa


I agree. That's why I think the pop culture stereotype of grey "aliens" has actually held us all up in our thinking about this issue.
If most of the well known accounts of UFO's and close encounters are accurate..then it is blatantly obvious that these entities manipulate space time..and that alone should have send most peoples inquiring minds into that direction. Yet even now, there is still a general consensus in the mainstream and even the underground, that the UFO issue is about ET. When all along the anecdotal evidence is about vehicles that can appear and dissapear at will..about creatures that can apparently abduct you from your bed whilst leaving no trace they entered your home..displaced time..etc..etc. all of this suggest either mass hysterics or trans dimensional entities.
Discovery channel (which is a bit of a joke in recent years) ran a series recently on aliens..and although most of the stories they ran from personal accounts, all indicated multidimensional behavior, I don't even think any of the scientists who talked during the shows even mentioned the concept of creatures or vehicles coming in from other dimensions. They were still talking about how its inconceivable that aliens would be able to travel to our solar system from the nearest star because its so far away...
I find it astounding that so called experts on space can on one hand talk about worm holes and on the other dismiss the whole idea that if there are beings coming here they must be using worm holes or something just as exotic..and if your capable of bending space time, that would then fill in many of the blanks..and more over it would mean these beings could not only be from another planet but more interestingly another time and possibly a totally different dimension or universe.
But on the whole people are still unable to get to grips with what opening a wormhole would mean, the manipulation of the fabric of time as well as space.
I personally think we can crack this area and manufacture our own technology to manipulate space time. It may well already have been created..this might be why the whole pop culture around the UFO phenomena has been directed almost exclusively towards the ET answer, which is totally insufficient to explain how UFO's actually behave. I don't believe its ET coming from billions of light years away. Whatever it is isn't traveling here, it's appearing here, that's the critical difference. How does something materialize and vanish at will? That is the riddle and to me there is a more of a philosophical answer to this than a technological one. "Of all that is seen and unseen" Just because our brains cant see or sense something doesn't mean it isn't there.

reply to post by TheBlackHat

Good point's but think on this, what if we though not knowing how to do this are actually the more intelligent and inventive specie's and they reason they are here is to harvest our technological development's (I know this is highly unlikely and all indications are we are like club wielding cave men to them but?).
Perhaps they travel between civilisations harvesting this technology to further there own end's.
They have one thing, the means to travel.

LABTECH767
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

Good point's but think on this, what if we though not knowing how to do this are actually the more intelligent and inventive specie's and they reason they are here is to harvest our technological development's (I know this is highly unlikely and all indications are we are like club wielding cave men to them but?).
Perhaps they travel between civilisations harvesting this technology to further there own end's.
They have one thing, the means to travel.

I have considered that too. Again if the abduction reports are true, then the behavior of these beings is somewhat unsophisticated, by our standards. There is certainly a mismatch between the technology and the behavior and the two things don't add up. But again it might be down to our perceptions of encountering intelligence's from a higher dimension. It might be the case, that our minds simply cannot form a full and proper account of what is going on because we cannot conceptualize a 4th dimension or higher. In mathematics higher dimensions can be described but we cant picture them in our minds. It would take a giant step in evolution to allow us to sense a higher dimension, if that's even possible, but I wonder if quantum computers might be able to get us closer to understanding this area?

TheBlackHat

chr0naut

...

Hugh Everett III
Multiple worlds theory. As with the other interpretations of quantum mechanics, the many-worlds interpretation is motivated by behavior that can be illustrated by the double-slit experiment. When particles of light (or anything else) are passed through the double slit, a calculation assuming wave-like behavior of light can be used to identify where the particles are likely to be observed. Yet when the particles are observed in this experiment, they appear as particles (i.e., at definite places) and not as non-localized waves.

The Multiple Worlds Theory proposed by Hugh Everett III is not accepted by most physicists, primarily because of disagreement with the laws of thermodynamics, an inability to be defined mathematically, and also because most of the expected outcomes of the theory have never been observed.