What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I'm sure people such as you describe do exist and that fact cannot be ignored.
Be informed, you do get rewards in this life for good deeds, but be sure
that you will not have the eternal life to come, unless saved by Jesus

Sorry...

I seem to babble through this whole post but I will go ahead and post it anyway. lol

Do you think it is possible we are ALL already "saved" by Jesus?

What if he was just a man like you and I (actually not a man --human ) and he lived many lives going through tribulation after tribulation and lived to per-fect his soul just as you and I may be doing each life we live?

What if this reality is actually an illusion and our "true self" is not even completely hear on Earth typing back and forth? I don't know... each of our brains are unique and weird in their own right.

If you believe in God, which you do... what IF he was also the father of Aliens who come from a different dimension, like what if God was a force and nothing more? Not something or someone you could ever even touch but only sense?

Physics and the like warp my brain, however it too is a part of this reality/creation. The ether, electromagnetism, quantum physics, and so on. There are some "spooky" and weird things that happen in this reality and we do not know half of what we could know...


SO to say "one needs Jesus to be saved", what if there is some truth to it?

Maybe it's as you say and feel in your heart?

But.... What IF we are already saved and Jesus truly was the first Adam (Atom) and he is the last Adam as the Bible tells us... (evolving to Christ)... maybe sounds like an evolving process doesn't it.

And maybe that is why Jesus bears the original sin... if his soul was Adam that is.

One only need to take note of nature to see how everything in nature tells us something. Our logic as a collective see's and takes note of nature and cycles. It's proven by our senses.

There are LAWS to this Universe and reality. Sometimes those laws are broken too.

What if Jesus came to "save" us as we fell from Eden. He is our spokesman and brother and the one who gave his life first on Earth for us all? Maybe it is more beautiful than what you've been taught.

Also, notice something else about nature... there is a positive, negative, and neutral. There is the power of three right there.

Mother, Father. Son. (Power of three)

Our bodies seem electrical.. brains and all.

Son/Jesus/We/Angels? Aiens? Whatever your heart says.. (we..the kids who fell from eden) are the neutral forces yet individually behave on each spectrum of the power grid. From negative to positive and in between... but we all work toward a goal which is to find and maintain the neutral. We are definitely off at times.

See... my mind can think of all kinds of stuff. It boggles the mind.

The truth of all matter can be crazier than anyone's dreams. lol

akushla99
No you're not...the ATS preachers are drawn to the topic section...funnily enough, the OP question is scant answered by them.

Namasute,

Parts I through III are very illuminating to this question but Part IV encapsulates the reason for this most eloquently.

The Bomb in the Brain Part 4 - The Death of Reason - The Effects of Child Abuse:

www.youtube.com...

The biological facts of belief is such that you have to understand the brain before you can challenge someones belief structure.
Since some of you will ask and not watch the video, here it is in a nutshell:

When you confront a belief that someone "opposes", the amgydela of the human brain shuts down.
This process destroys higher reasoning by making them "fearful".
The reasoning centres of the brain shuts down and triggers the fight or flight reflex.
It has connection to the higher brain regions...the r-complex is the example I am using but there are others.
They cease to act on reason and react instead on instinct...evasion, avoidance, disassociation, anger or contempt.
This is medical fact.
Core beliefs when challenged produce the identical effects.
This is why we always see the unusually spurious and blatantly ignorant responces from the believers of religion when this core belief is challenged.
If you remind them of their mortality (i.e. God does not exist) they defend their world view more strongly and reject those who challenge it.
The medical/psychological term for this is called "priming".
This links biology and ideology and obviously also relates to political views as well as spiritual ones.

"Flinch first and ask questions later."

And so it goes...
This has nothing to do with God and everything to do with child abuse.
The ideological brain is a damaged brain as ideology effects the brain like a drug whether on political or spiritual matters.
I hope this was helpful.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go put my kevlar back on!

-Amitaba-

reply to post by Eryiedes


Bombs in the brain indeed...as general description it's always eerie how it fits...the specific circumstances attributed to the individuals' spectrum of responses is fascinating (in a clinical way)...it's what I seek on these boards with these clever OP questions...the process through to balanced sublimation is enlightening in itself.

Å99

I will say that when I was a Christian and going through a cognitive dissonance that would lead to my deconversion, I didn't want to believe any evidence against the literal Biblical account was true. It would mean no heaven as I had come to think of it, and no Holy Spirit as I had come to know it. I spent an inordinately large amount of time on apologetics websites near the end.

I had been going through years of apathy and increasing fear of losing my salvation, and that's what finally pushed me over the edge. The moment I let go of my perception of Christianity as the only true philosophy was a great relief. I don't regret my time as a Christian, since it changed me a lot for the better and gave me many fine days. But, in the end, this fear-inspiring religion just wasn't meant to be a long-term philosophy for me.

Have you taken a look at the website Exchristian.net? It's a treasure trove of articles and testimonials that you'd find really interesting.

reply to post by EllaMarina


If the "Holy Spirit" that you experienced cannot be attributed to any actual deity, then what was it?

reply to post by EllaMarina


Namasute,

Wow...I tip my hat to you ma'am.
This accomplishment would be understated by words like "admirable" or "inspiring".
Most of us will never overcome the damage done to us in childhood but you have truely beaten the odds.
Hopefully it will show others "less inclined to forgiveness" that true redemption lies in self-knowledge and not spiritual misdirection.

(Humbly bows before you)

-Amitaba-

reply to post by AfterInfinity


My current speculation as such is that the force often known as God is a universal underlying conscious energy, which people tap into within themselves, so to speak, especially during spiritual experiences.

But that's a philosophical discussion for another day.

reply to post by EllaMarina


I would like to read it in full at some point. I have difficulty reconciling such a powerful experience with mere delusion. The question is, what is the true nature of such an experience if not delusion?

AfterInfinity
The question is, what is the true nature of such an experience if not delusion?

I believe it goes like this:

Trauma is inflicted during childhood.
That mental trauma causes brain damage.
That brain damage forms the foundation of an individuals ideology.
And finally...that ideology cripples an individuals ability to objectively process reason and evidence.
Voila...delusion.
Make of it what you will but the science on this is indesputable.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by Eryiedes


That does not answer my question.

Religion is not just a belief system. It is as integral to a believer as is their heart. They base who they are upon their chosen religion. They are their religion. Asking one who believes is akin to asking them to live without their heart. I am not talking about fundamentalists, but even those who say that they do not believe in a god but are still spiritual. Humans are not meant to live a spiritually flat life. Yet when those beliefs are put aside the world makes more sense.

Also, those who believe can rarely see past their own views. Can a Christian truly understand and Muslim? Can a Muslim truly understand the Jewish beliefs? It is very rare when one so invested in a lifestyle can accept those of another faith. I grew up Mormon, and have seen that even among the different Christian sects there is animosity.

A few days ago there was a post about morality and how could someone live a moral life without a belief in a higher power. For the religious, even a simple act of kindness must be tied to something. For them, there is no act which hasn't been influenced by god or the devil. They cannot understand that morality does not need to be tied to deity.

To ask a believer to not believe is akin to asking you to live without breathing. Right or wrong, this is who they are. It took me quite awhile to realize that the greatest enemy to religion is religion. Not just a the sect you may believe in, but as an overarching construct that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I also see the word 'atheist' as an odd word. It basically describes a lack of belief in something that does not exist.

ObservingTheWorld
A few days ago there was a post about morality and how could someone live a moral life without a belief in a higher power. For the religious, even a simple act of kindness must be tied to something. For them, there is no act which hasn't been influenced by god or the devil. They cannot understand that morality does not need to be tied to deity.

Namasute,

Perhaps this might explain some of these curiousities we see?

True News 42: Morality, Atheism and Child Abuse

www.youtube.com...

For those who can't (or refuse to) watch the video, it demonstrates that society is actually improving as religion is losing it's foothold upon the peoples of the earth by asking:

"When atheism increases...what happens to morality?"

The statistics clearly show that the truth is completely opposite to what diehard christians, muslims and hebrews would espouse. Superstition and fear is waining on a global scale with respect to challenging the decrees of the demogogues and the quality of life is improving as a result of it.
Religious people are almost atheists and they just refuse to see it. They disbelieve the in 9999 OTHER gods that mankind has imagined to comfort themselves with that came before the one they chose to believe in.
(Thor, Tiamat, Shiva, Bast or what have you...)
If they could only stop believing in god number 10000...we'd ALL be on the same page as a species.
Many will say:

"Stalin was an atheist and he was evil."

Ignoring that Stalin was raised by devout theists and was originally to enter the religious orders of the time in addition to ignoring that he was against religion because he was ruling the most religious country in his part of the world at the time.
They would also try and allude Hitler was an atheist, but that's not even true...he was an occultist.
Personally, I believe morality is something of a crutch.
It's the stick you are beaten with when the church (or state) wants you to do something you wouldn't normally do.
The true origin of morality should explain this dichotomy quite well.

Good is Evil:

www.youtube.com...

-Amitaba-

reply to post by ObservingTheWorld

I also see the word 'atheist' as an odd word. It basically describes a lack of belief in something that does not exist.

In a world predominantly swayed, to a greater or lesser degree, by theistic influence, having no theistic allegiance is becoming more and more of an identity. Those who rely solely upon the assets of humanity and its comprising elements are becoming more and more of an identity.

The word 'atheist' is no more odd than the philosophy it describes. It should be noted that while such a philosophy does deny any and all deities, that is all it does. Beyond that, anything is possible.

FlyersFan
After reading this, I thought backwards and thought over the events in my life and I have to say that yes ... a lot of my 'hopes' have just been 'wishful thinking'. I don't know if 'hope' inspires people to self fulfill that hope, or if it's just wishful thinking that never gets fulfilled ...or a combination. But I know a lot of my hopes have ended in bitter disappointment.

Namasute,

I wish I could say I don't know what you are talking about on this but alas, I can not.
It is however comforting to know that even when taking the road less travelled, every now and then, you can still sometimes manage to see a friendly face.
Peace be with you.

-Amitaba-

Namasute,

Although broached in one of my previous posts, not every one can watch youtube clips.
Here is your moment of zen...

As far as morality is concerned, there is only one guarenteed way to ensure whether a moral ideal one adheres to is true or false.
This is not revealed in how the moral ideal is presented or anything that it might be based upon but instead, to whom it does NOT apply. Who is NOT bound by that moral rule. This is why they exist.
Why else are people who try to universally apply "universal moral rules" considered lunatics?
This form of morality is just another form of control.

For example:

Thou shall not kill. Sounds good...yeah, we get that one. But when the state does it, it's called "war". When some religion does it, it's called "jihad" or "crusade".

Thou shall not steal. No hang ups there, I think we all get that. But when the state does it, it's called "taxation". When the church does it, it's called a "tithe".

We are told that violence is wrong. Well, sure...of course it is. But when the state does it, it's called "law". When the church does it, it's called "decree". When it's done by your parents, it's called "spanking".

The core of morality (as it is used by authority, be it political or religious) is essentially Orwellian "double think". The arguement from morality is one of the churches "big guns" but it's actually a big fraud.

"We adhere to the teaching of Christ because we are moral."

No, you're not.
Most (if not all) fall into one of two categories.
They follow the teachings of the bible because they either don't want to goto hell or they want to goto heaven.
If it's hell they are trying to avoid, then the mechanism at work here is called "coersion".

(I.E. Do what the lord commands or you go down to lakes of fire and blood to suffer torment for eternity as satan's lapdog.)

Not exactly moral is it?
If it's heaven they are trying to get to, then the mechanism at work is called "bribery".

(I.E. If you are good to your fellow believers of the same faith, you get to sit up on a cloud with "The Big Guy", shoot the breeze with John Lennon and eat all the ice cream you want.)

Once more, not exactly what I would call a decision based on morality, is it?
It appeals to vanity or fear.
Staying true to the OP, most (if not all) christians fear that if they deviate from the teaching of the Bible, it means they are no longer a moral person living a moral life...but I think this adequately demonstrates how flawed this arguement is.
There's nothing to fear from the truth.

-Amitaba-

To the OP, I can say as a former Christian that leaving a religion behind really can be a scary thing to face, and I think that's why some will defend their position and shut out or condemn all others. I don't mean anything I say in this post to be taken as a jab by anyone else, this is purely my experience... I used to be one of those people who would argue with non-believers about things like evolution till I was blue in the face, when I really hadn't even studied alternative viewpoints enough to comment on it.

Let's see some of my thoughts at the time (back in 2009ish): Fear of leaving the faith then dieing and being wrong (hell). Wondering how something that millions believe in could possibly be wrong. Feeling like my faith was hindering (heavily discouraging) me from studying things that I was interested in but that were "taboo" such as psychic phenomena, paranormal topics, other religions, etc (what are they so scared of me finding?) My family / friends will not approve and will try to "help" me or look down on me. I've believed this for 15 years, how can I turn away now? But I've always had my doubts so is it not better to explore them to be sure? How can you be so naive or arrogant as to say that anything you don't understand is wrong or impossible or demonic. Maybe it all really is just a tempting trick where the consequence of falling for it is my very soul. Or maybe religion really is a quite effective method for control.

Just trying to give you a window into my mind without going into great detail about specific things in the religion that made me want to leave. After all this isn't supposed to be Atheists vs Christians War 5 Million and One... But as you can see it's not always such a simple thing to just say "okay, maybe you're right." For me it was basically a back and forth of what felt like a life or death decision that there wasn't any acceptable way out of and I wanted my original religion to be true for various reasons. For several weeks / months I put a lot of thought and worry into it until finally I came to the conclusion that even if it WAS all true and correct, I did not want to participate anymore due to moral and other conflicts. Even after that decision, for a year or so I still had nagging fears that what I was doing was wrong, and what the consequences might be.

Now though, I feel much better than I ever did. This is not to say I'm an Atheist now or have renounced all spirituality, quite the contrary. I just don't follow that belief system anymore. I don't really know what I am or what I believe as far as "supreme beings" go, and I finally realized that's okay. When pushed to label myself I usually say Pagan because I generally relate to them the best according to my own experiences but I don't even know if that's 100% accurate, I have my own set of beliefs and it doesn't really matter to me anymore if people think I'm wrong or crazy. I have no motives or uses for converts to my way and it doesn't bother me if people believe differently as long as they aren't hurting anyone. And "according to my experiences" is the key here -- I finally came to peace with all of this when I decided to stop trying to change my world view according to my religion, and learned to create a religion based on my world view. Who is anyone else to tell me I'm wrong and they're right? I'm always up for a civil discussion with mutual respect. When you say something I disagree with I'll let you know (and I expect you to do the same) -- but I'm not too arrogant to preface my belief with "I think".

This came out longer than I meant to and rambles a bit, but that is my story of leaving a religion in a nutshell. Fear, insecurity, conformity, confusion.

reply to post by duke396

I finally came to peace with all of this when I decided to stop trying to change my world view according to my religion, and learned to create a religion based on my world view. Who is anyone else to tell me I'm wrong and they're right? I'm always up for a civil discussion with mutual respect. When you say something I disagree with I'll let you know (and I expect you to do the same) -- but I'm not too arrogant to preface my belief with "I think".

This came out longer than I meant to and rambles a bit, but that is my story of leaving a religion in a nutshell. Fear, insecurity, conformity, confusion.

I'm glad it came out "longer than [you] meant to and rambles a bit" !!!

Awesome post!!!!

I can relate to your story on so many levels...
Did you read the NDE thread about Mellen-Thomas Benedict?
It might resonate with you on a very deep level.

Thanks for your contribution.

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

You think you have turned your back, but Jesus will bring you back in, make no mistake about that. All sheep that are lost will be found by Jesus the Shephard

I have made my piece with the fact that I wasted many years following a false religion. I do not intend to fall back into that trap ever again.

If it makes you feel good to think that I will be found again at a later date then go for it. I'm all for whatever makes you feel good.

My wife is still a firm believer so we are unequally yolked, in the Biblical sense. I don't try to dissuade her in any way. Her belief system is important to her and I would never hinder that in any way. If she asks me questions I will answer truthfully. Everyone has to come to their truth on their own terms.

For someone to try and tell me that I am wrong and will go to hell or that Jesus will bring me back in at a later date is trying to force something on me against my will which is blasphemous and akin to rape or slavery.

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

but be sure
that you will not have the eternal life to come, unless saved by Jesus

That is your opinion, based on your indoctrination. It's obvious, if one looks at other religions and belief systems, that it can't POSSIBLY be the WHOLE, COMPLETE Truth.

Have you been reading the thread?

How are you SO CERTAIN that your belief supercedes ALL OTHERS, and that you have the 'monopoly' on salvation? Especially when you admit openly that you would hope the Holy Spirit prevented it even should you want to do it.

That sounds like....


FEAR.

reply to post by mikelkhall

Everyone has to come to their truth on their own terms.

For someone to try and tell me that I am wrong and will go to hell or that Jesus will bring me back in at a later date is trying to force something on me against my will which is blasphemous and akin to rape or slavery.

This. ^^^

Thanks so much for participating here...I wish I could give you applause. But, you got a 'star', anyway.