What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

reply to post by zedy63

But when i first realized this i was deeply saddened at the thought everything i thought was real was possibly a lie i can understand how devastating it would be for some who are more set in there religion than i was

I found myself deeply spiritual as a child. I thought a lot and my thinking was deep unlike those around me. I am still this way.. and one of the reasons why I come to ATS because other deep thinkers make me feel connected and not "alone" in my thoughts.

I also found myself sad when I was in Church. Growing up I was told to find my way so I went to many church's trying to find "my way".

Never could I connect to the "truth" and never did I feel like any one had all the answers. I found that even my preachers were flawed time and time again and it was disappointing to a youth such as myself.

When I came to the notion that MAYBE we are the "fallen" ones I really took a step back and thought to myself, "how can this be".

What IF everything we are taught and all the literature read never came close to the "truth"?

Either way... today I can say that the truth may not be found by me, however there are a few people in history I trust as my intuition tells me I can.

Time tells all... or... maybe outside of time... will tell all.

When it's all said and done.. maybe none of it really matters and the only thing that does matter is the connections you made while visiting Earth.

Maybe one day we will know, however I think it is great we can share ideas and possibly grow in a different light.

reply to post by MamaJ

My current belief may change, and that is ok with me. I actually expect it to change as I get older and become wiser, if I actually do become wiser. lol

Hiya, MamaJ!

Yes, I, too am okay with my current beliefs being changed...I look forward to it every day, actually, as I learn more and more - and I fully realize how fortunate I am to be in a position of doing so "full time".

You mentioned 'fear of being wrong'. This is a multi-facted concept on its own....
interesting.
Does it indicate an over-inflated ego? Or does it more indicate just a 'nowhere to focus' feeling to be uncertain - and that makes fear of the consequences more threatening?

reply to post by wildtimes


I agree completely i feel now im a much better person im more myself than ive ever been and i feel im on the right path for once just by trying to be myself.

In my younger years I dabbled in religions, searching for something that made me feel like I belonged and made me feel like I was part of something greater. The trouble was even though I liked being a part of something, there were invariably doctrines that didn't sit right with me...It isn't in my heart to object to someones race,sex,sexuality or religion I believe we are all equal and judgement isn't in my nature. So I drifted away from all organized religions, it wasn't a big wrench I just felt sad that a lot of very nice people (in other ways) had such a deep rooted fear/dislike of what they deemed different. Now as I have gotten older I have ideas, but you can change ideas...beliefs are not so easy to change. If for that, I'm going to hell I guess I will have to live with it

reply to post by wildtimes


1) Number one presupposes that good can only exist if evil does not. It presupposes the opposite; if evil is all there is, then good does not exist. A pure materialist would simply say neither is a reality in the absolute sense. In the reality we live in, however, there are two kingdoms. One is the strong force and the other is the weak. We DO know these two exist and we know from physics that the strong force heels the weak. This is not conjecture, but a fact. We also know that natural law is constant and governed toward outcomes. This is not conjecture, but a fact. Regardless of what you believe, there is a set administration to the order in nature. This order is clearly governed, yet holding a degree of freedom for the weak force to exist away from equalibrium. This is not conjecture, it is a fact we know from science. It is not conjecture that positive rules negative. It is not conjecture that a positive and negative cancel each other. It is not conjecture that the governing force in nature brings about unity over order. It is not conjecture that chaos is held at bay by the strong force.

Knowing this allows us to show a foundation toward the knowledge of the strong force in nature. It is parallel to the narrative in the Bible. For instance, hydrogen has one proton and one electron. They are in perfect positive and negative balance. From this starting point, all of the elements that follow have an added neutron. In the Bible, this is the walled city. In nature, it is the cell wall of all particles and systems. In the physics, this is the strong nuclear force. It consists of one proton and one neutron in the middle of the atom. The electron is passed around as the weak force. The strong force is the combination of proton and neutron. Neutrons are neutral. They have two down quarks and one up. Protons have two up and one down. The electron is heeled by the strong force of the other two. On the cross, Christ (Neutral) hung between two thieves. One thieve was the negative and the other the positive. Christ was the neutral in the middle. Case after case in the Bible shows us the pattern in nature, originating with the strong house. What is the strong house?

Father in the Bible is Aleph (Strength) Bet (House). Alphabet is the word we get from Abba, or AB in Hebrew. Son is Bet (House) Nun (Seed). The house of DNA is contained by the strong house in the waters of life. Baptism is the immersion of the letters of DNA and the WORDS of proteins forming the body. In Hebrew, mother is Aleph (Strength) Mem (Water). Strong water is hydrogen. The lower version of water is H2O. The waters of life are the catalyst of the letters of DNA and the WORD of creation.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

2) Faith is NOT unfounded. It is evident. Fear binds and traps the soul. Fear can only come from ignorance. Truth, however, sets you free.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thanks for chiming in! Always a pleasure to have the "frequent flyers" in a thread.

Yes, I see that fear is a big motivator - but then, there are those who are simply trying to 'enlighten' and 'release' others from the chains of rote dogma and doctrine.

See Klass's excellent answer.

reply to post by Klassified

thanks very much for that!

So, yes, I get your drift. But obviously - there is SOME WAY that staunch Satan-minded folks let go of their preciously held beliefs, or there wouldn't be so many "former Evangelicals"...
what did it take for them?

Disillusionment is not a fun thing. Being disabused of prior misconceptions makes some folks VERY nervous.

Mostly I'm seeing "fear" as the motive. Am I mistaken?

reply to post by wildtimes


Maybe fear that everything they know or have been taught is not actually true.

For someone like me who makes time to read and study and get all in the rabbit hole, it's easier to accept that change is a constant. For others ... what would they live for if they were not living to be saved? I don't really know but it's worth pondering.

For the die hard Christian or any faith for that matter I wonder... HOW MANY of them have actually traced their religion back to the beginning and understand from where it came?

That in and of itself gave me such a thrill. Why? Because I knew all along... I felt it... what I was being taught always left me with more questions than answers. I was the kid that never would stop asking and the thought of answering another question for me was probably a nightmare for the person in charge. lol

I still ask questions.

For the most part, I see some are okay with not asking questions and just living life blindly following another. They are content with that. Maybe because it is truly not that important to them? It's easier to accept the lifestyle, judge others, and feel superior in the fact they them self are not going to hell because they have been saved.

reply to post by mikelkhall

A lot of people fear death because they have been "educated" to believe that death is a bad thing and in order for good to come from death they must follow certain steps in order to bypass death and step into eternal life.

Very astute observation.

The USA is quite less open to discussions of "death"... though other countries, and even some folks in our own, are more 'celebratory' or 'matter-of-fact' about it. In other cultures death is simply accepted, and ritualized in some way.

Yes, knowledge of inevitable death is the REAL "curse" of humanity's self-awareness. Most of us just aren't equipped very well to deal with it. In my opinion.

Glad for you that you 'escaped' what you discovered in your reflections and realizations.

reply to post by wildtimes


Good question! But I think the real answer can be applied to more than just religious beliefs. Let's add political beliefs and a few others that are ingrained into our minds from the moment we are born.

This is the most simplistic and understanding answer I can come up with. YES, I have even applied this to change my way of thinking.

Also, it doesn't mean you are right OR wrong, it just means your psyche, is trying to protect your ego.....

It can be a hard pill to swallow, but once you get it down, freedom is just a few steps away.....

cognitive dissonance
noun (Concise Encyclopedia)



Mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The concept was introduced by the psychologist Leon Festinger (1919–89) in the late 1950s. He and later researchers showed that, when confronted with challenging new information, most people seek to preserve their current understanding of the world by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding the new information or by convincing themselves that no conflict really exists. Cognitive dissonance is nonetheless considered an explanation for attitude change.

Source

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Enochwasright,

You definitely bring up good factual statements that cannot be denied. They can be connected as you showed and so I applaud your efforts to shine the light wherever you go.

You have definitely shown me (I hope I have you) more light of truth shed into this darkness we find our self in.

Knowledge is one thing, but wisdom is another.

I really wish more took the time to truly understand your words and the connections you have made.

I find that within your threads comes a lot of confusion and fear, however you are steadfast and hold your ground. I have watched your belief grow and change and I know you have mine as well.

SO be it... we all must grow and shine our light where we may.

reply to post by seeker1963


Love it... and yeah... I can totally see that as true.

Also, we are wired differently and whether it be by coincidence or a "meant to be" is neither here nor there right now. We are wired in the Brain and some of us have more need to believe in a God than others.

Doesn't make it right or wrong.

I happen to think we are all here for a reason unknown to us.

Maybe I'm wrong.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Very interesting, Ed, as usual a thoughtful and complicated post.

2) Faith is NOT unfounded. It is evident. Fear binds and traps the soul. Fear can only come from ignorance. Truth, however, sets you free.

I disagree that faith is NOT unfounded. Some faiths are obviously contrived - and it's incumbent, in my opinion, on every person who is subjected to a contrived set of ideas to question them.

On the other hand, yes. The TRUTH does set one free.

reply to post by MamaJ


I just read on Facebook not long ago that knowledge is knowing the right answers...but intelligence is asking the right questions. I don't think religion asks the right questions. That is to say, religion acknowledges a certain range of subject matter that is inherently uncomfortable to explore as it forces us to accept a side of reality that we desperately try to avoid. And so it invents a way to make those questions unnecessary. It renders those questions irrelevant by building a contextual structure that assumes an answer in place of those questions. In fact, you don't know what the question is. You only know the supposed answer.

And that is why faith is so important. Because if you don't exercise faith, you will inevitably realize those answers lack a question. And when you find those questions...you realize those answers aren't good enough. But you aren't equipped to find a better answer. And so you fall back on the easy chair that religion has conveniently conjured up in just the right spot for you to see the world through THEIR window, regardless of whether that window shows everything or not.

reply to post by seeker1963


Brilliant. Thanks for posting that explanation. Agreed. What I see is a REFUSAL to even engage in oppositional material - as it DOES create cognitive dissonance, and hence - discomfort.

I believe it is imperative to engage in exploration, however, to be truly wise.

:thumb up:

reply to post by EnochWasRight

2) Faith is NOT unfounded.

By definition, it actually is. But don't let that stop you. It never has before.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

And that is why faith is so important. Because if you don't exercise faith, you will inevitably realize those answers lack a question. And when you find those questions...you realize those answers aren't good enough. But you aren't equipped to find a better answer.

Exactly.
"Faith" (when used in terms of religious belief) is a really sketchy thing. And no, I don't think we ARE equipped very well to find a better answer to the questions....
which is part of the 'human condition' that has been philosophized over since antiquity.

Even as a little kid - 10 or so - I sometimes found myself so discombobulated by my thoughts, and coping with life, that I would look at my cat curled up on my bed and think, "Why can't it be that easy?"

Once I actually prayed myself to sleep asking God to let me change places with my cat for just ONE DAY....

didn't happen, of course. But yeah, folks, I was BORN THIS WAY.

reply to post by wildtimes

I think it can work the other way round as well. with committed unbelievers running scared of the possibility of religion.
I would include in that category everyone who posted on my "How an atheist became a Christian" thread telling me that I had never been "a real atheist".
Evidently terrifed of the logic; "If it can happen to one atheist, it can happen to me".
What else to you think Paul was doing all that time he was persecuting Christians? He was frantically trying to conceal from himself the fact that the last speech of Stephen had already convinced him.
The phenomenon of "denial" can take many forms.

reply to post by DISRAELI


It takes a hell of a lot to convert an atheist.

reply to post by DISRAELI

I think it can work the other way round as well. with committed unbelievers running scared of the possibility of religion.

Interesting point.

It seems to me, however, that 'committed unbelievers' would only be 'scared' if they have not lived a life of morals.
I SINCERELY hope that you are not one of those who believe atheists have no morals.
It's false.

reply to post by wildtimes

On the question of morals;
In my atheist days, I reached the conclusion that I could not see any rational reason for a person to motivate his behaviour on anything but self-interest.
I still have the diaries in which I was recording these reflections, and given time could track down a relevant entry.
My analysis was that the only factors keeping me on the straight and narrow were the residual behaviour patterns formed by my up-bringing, and the fact that I wanted people to like me.