What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

reply to post by wildtimes

Okay, then! Fair enough!

Thanks for your participation, in any case.
Yeah, I'm "nosy"....I really like to pick people's brains. I mean no harm in it - I'm just asking questions, so I understand the "human condition" - which, I guess, wouldn't apply to you anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Glad I could be helpful,I think you like to have very deep thinking.

reply to post by piequal3because14

Glad I could be helpful,I think you like to have very deep thinking.

Yep, I do.

I like it most of the time, at least. Sometimes it makes me tired.

reply to post by wildtimes

Yep, I do.

I like it most of the time, at least. Sometimes it makes me tired.

When it is new thinking you can never get tired of,and especially if it is very very deep,and always new.

reply to post by piequal3because14


If it isn't deep, it isn't thinking, it's reevaluation. By which I mean, if you're thinking, you should probably go out on a limb or you're just rearranging old stuff.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

If it isn't deep, it isn't thinking, it's reevaluation.

Not necessarily,can be deep and the same thinking,but I think it will be very very boring.

FlyersFan

NewAgeMan
"Judge not so that you will not be judged." (Jesus)

Thessalonians 5:21 - examine everything carefully; hold fast to what is good; abstain from what is evil.

And telling people to believe in a proven lie is evil.

Evil? You've gotta be kidding me? See what I've posted in this thread about the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ first.

NewAgeMan
Evil? You've gotta be kidding me? See what I've posted in this thread about the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ first.

So you don't think it's evil to tell people to believe in what has been proven false?
You think it's okay to make people believe in lies, as long as it suits an agenda?
Your agenda? That's pure evil.

Adam and Eve. Proven false.
Noahs Ark. Proven false.
Jonah and the Whale. Proven false.
David wrote all the Psalms. Proven false.
Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the desert. Proven false.
Moses got the 10 Commandments from the hand of God. Proven false.
Abraham? Probably didn't even exist. Folklore.

But you think it's okay to push these lies as "TRUTH' even though they are lies?
How on earth can you not call that EVIL???

reply to post by FlyersFan


My focus is and always has been on the Gospel which is indeed Good News and a point of Liberation.

You used to be a Christian, FlyersFan. What happened that you now call it "evil" and anyone who also extends the invitation of Christ, evil?

The cross of Jesus Christ was never proven false, and if you'll look back through this thread with regards to the info I presented, there's an astonishing discovery to be made as to Jesus' M.O. and the one who sent him.

And the prophetic framework holds up and holds water and served as the frame or doorway through which Jesus came, right on time.

What happened that you've become indistinguishable from the rest of the Christian bashers? It makes me sad to see it.

Were you not a "bride of Christ"?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Could you provide credible documentation for every one of those things you claimed were proven false?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


For some weird reason there aren't any "link" pins showing up on my puter...

this is a c/p of one of FF's posts that give the info (there are several out there at the moment):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

(QUOTING FlyersFan here!) Does it frighten you to know that Moses didn't get the 10 Commandments from the Hand of God?
Information Here

Does it frighten you to know that the Abraham folklore is totally unreliable?
Information Here

Does it frighten you to know that the Jews were never slaves in Egypt and the Exodus didn't happen?
Does it frighten you to know that Adam and Eve didn't exist? Or Noahs Ark either?

Those are some rather large chunks of the bible that are simply not true.
They've been proven not to be true. Does that frighten you??

Adam and Eve are CREATION MYTHS. The Earth wasn't created in 6 days. The Earth isn't 6,000 years old. Snakes don't talk. And when Cain supposedly killed Abel .. who were 'the others' that he was so afraid of?? If they were alone on the planet there wouldn't be 'others' to be afraid of. Babylonian Origins of Adam and Eve Creation Myth

Noahs Ark is a fable. It is absolutely impossible for the entire earth to repopulate from 3 pairs of reproducing humans from 6,000 years ago. It is absolutely impossible for all the animals of the earth to have come from one reproducing pair of their species on a mountaintop in Turkey from 6000 years ago. Scientifically and absolutely impossible. Summerian Mythology Source for Noahs Ark Myth There have been major floods around the world, but there were survivors all over the planet and there was no 'one ark' that God spared with a family and two animals of each kind. Total myth. 101 Reasons Why Noahs Ark Doesn't Float .

Jonah didn't live for 3 days in a whales stomach. He couldn't live more than 10 minutes in a whales stomach let alone 3 days. It's scientifically and absolutely impossible.

The Ten Commandments are a doctrine of men and were NOT given to Moses on some mountaintop by God. The jews were never slaves in Egypt and they didn't live, en masse, in the desert for 40 years. The Egyptians who kept very good records have no records of any of this happening. There is no archeological evidence whatsoever in the desert. And if hundreds of thousands of people lived and died there, then there would be human bones, animal bones, pottery, etc. But there is NOTHING ... because it didn't happen.

Abraham may not have even existed. That's right. He supposedly lived in 2000 BC .. but the folklore about him wasn't written down until 500 BC. That's 1500 years of embellishments and changes to the story and addings on and takings off ... it's a totally unreliable folklore story.

Reform Judaism - Moses stories of Egypt are allegories

Jewish World Thinker - Jews were never slaves in Egypt

LA Times

After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is no conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under Joshua's leadership. To the contrary, the prevailing view is that most of Joshua's fabled military campaigns never occurred--archeologists have uncovered ash layers and other signs of destruction at the relevant time at only one of the many battlegrounds mentioned in the Bible.

Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel--whose people are portrayed in the Bible as wicked idolators. Under this theory, the Canaanites who took on a new identity as Israelites were perhaps joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt--explaining a possible source of the Exodus story, scholars say. As they expanded their settlement, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps providing the historical nuggets for the conflicts recorded in Joshua and Judges.

"Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we've broken the news very gently," said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America's preeminent archeologists.

Hope that helps.

reply to post by wildtimes


That works beautifully. You missed a couple links in there, but you've got more than enough to blow a gaping hole in the opposing arguments. Thank you for the excellent effort. You do not disappoint.

NewAgeMan

AfterInfinity
Has anyone actually answered the question being asked here? What would be the worst part of discovering your chosen religion is false? What is your worst fear? What would you lose in losing your religion?

You go first. How would you handle losing your atheism in discovering that Christianity is true?

If I found out Christianity was true, I'd hope that the forgiving Jesus part wins out over the jealous tyrant God part of it. Beside my strong disbelief, I also find the god and many of his morals barbaric, so that would land me in a pit of boiling hotness. I break plenty of christian morals as well, I disagree with them in the depths of my "soul". I'd hope this Jesus character was forgiving enough to understand why I would see things the way I do. A god that kills of entire civilizations, and constantly threatens his own followers will have a hard time convincing me of it's loving nature. I think my morals are superior to the bibles, I would tell your god that and let him act as he will.

your turn.

reply to post by mahatche


Looks like it's a pretty consistent answer all around for the nonreligious folks. When do we get answers from the Jesus Club?

We're all skirting over the surface.

I would rather talk about what it is precisely about Christianity that makes us uncomfortable, because there's a joke in it to be had that no one seems to get and it's so rich and deep and profound.

It's easy enough to go searching the Bible for inconsistencies based on a literalist interpretation strawman argument, and then to hold that out as if proud of one's self...! how pathetic, and it doesn't do anything to undermine the significance of Jesus and his Great Work.

It's like talking to a brick wall, or across some chasm.

There isn't even the willingness to consider the Jesus angle, so what's the point of this discussion if the atheist isn't willing to try on the Christian paradigm and look at it from a various angles and perspectives.

It's a two way street.

I've tried on atheism and found it to be completely vacuuous, but has anyone really done an investigation of the Christian POV free from any sort of contempt, prior to investigation..?

Oh the hypocrisy of it all and the IRONY, if only you knew or were aware of it.. you would laugh with me.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


It sounds as though you are retracting your previous affirmation that you would adjust your beliefs, thoughts, feelings, etc. accordingly if you found out conclusively that Christianity is based on nothing but lies and deceptions.

Let's keep our story straight now.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

There isn't even the willingness to consider the Jesus angle, so what's the point of this discussion if the atheist isn't willing to try on the Christian paradigm and look at it from a various angles and perspectives.

I'm not an atheist. Just in case that wasn't clear.

And yes, I understand that you find it all very humorous. That's great...for YOU! But there are millions of people who find Christianity to be a 'burden' - to have to believe they are worthless, born sinners - and are not worthy of 'redemtion' or 'salvation.' THIS is what I object to.

The point of this discussion is whether or not believers/unbelievers are WILLING to read/listen to/consider OTHER religious thoughts, or atheist thoughts, without becoming overly defensive and shutting down.

NewAgeMan
It's easy enough to go searching the Bible for inconsistencies based on a literalist interpretation strawman argument, and then to hold that out as if proud of one's self...! how pathetic, and it doesn't do anything to undermine the significance of Jesus and his Great Work.

- The New Testament and the information on Jesus is separate from the Old Testament. It can stand on it's own merit. It doesn't need the Old Testament to be literally accurate. (which is a good thing because the Old Testament is a mess).

- It's not a 'literalist interpretation strawman argument' to point out the numerous errors in the Old Testament. It's simply stating the truth of the matter. And again .. stating the facts about Old Testament errors in no way touches the New Testament accounts of Jesus. They are two separate books (sold under one cover, but they are two separate books)

- Unfortunately there are many people who come on here thinking that the Old Testament has to be taken literally or else a person can't be a 'good Christian'. It's absurd. They don't understand that the Old Testament is myth, folklore, allegory and proven to be just plain seriously messed up. Truth is truth. And that's the truth.

AfterInfinity
Could you provide credible documentation for every one of those things you claimed were proven false?

Wildtimes just quoted my previous links given ... so she beat me to it.
All proven false. Many more proven false, but those are the 'biggies'.
Those put a knife into the heart of Judaism and Islam. And they give Christianity a black eye.

wildtimes
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

And yes, I understand that you find it all very humorous. That's great...for YOU! But there are millions of people who find Christianity to be a 'burden' - to have to believe they are worthless, born sinners - and are not worthy of 'redemtion' or 'salvation.' THIS is what I object to.

That's rooted in ignorance, because the truth is that in Christ we are all of incalculable value as children of a loving God.

Also, you too have to be willing to try on the other paradigm without making assumptions ie: what if it were true, what would be the implications of that? to avoid the hypocrisy of asking the other side to try on the paradigm that it were also shown to be "a lie".

There is something rather repugnant about the nature of this thread that I can't quite put my finger on, but it's incongruent with an honest pursuit of the truth or of enlightenment.

NewAgeMan
You used to be a Christian, FlyersFan. What happened that you now call it "evil" and anyone who also extends the invitation of Christ, evil?

1 - I am a Christian.
2 - I do not call Christianity evil.
3 - I call it evil when people say that the old testament has to be taken literally or else they are bad Christians. I call it evil when the truth proves the old testament wrong, but people tell others to turn a blind eye to that truth. Lies are evil. Truth is good.

Were you not a "bride of Christ"?

I was a third order Carmelite.