Nebraska court rules 16-year-old girl not mature enough for abortion

Not to sound rash but if it wasn't rape, she needs to be sterilized to prevent any more tragedies like this.
How's that going to be as a child with a mother that never wanted you and sees you as a medical procedure she should have had.

Party wild and forget, live only in the moment and screw everything else. Is that a widespread philosophy today? These people should volunteer to be sterilized for human decency or at least go gay.

And I mean no offense, but this is how our hate begins in this world this poor child will be lucky if they grow up to be kind and charismatic.

windword
reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

 

the misfortune of my irresponsibility.............

Who is being irresponsible in this case? Where is the irresponsibility in getting an abortion? Abortion is the MOST responsible choice in this scenario.

Not only the most responsible choice, the only one that guarantees a known outcome, the one the girl was asking for.

I do not know why people couldn't let her go through with it as the only person it would truly effect would be her, especially if the pregnancy was in an extremely early stage (which it was at the time she sought to have it terminated).

BlubberyConspiracy
Not to sound rash but if it wasn't rape, she needs to be sterilized to prevent any more tragedies like this.
How's that going to be as a child with a mother that never wanted you and sees you as a medical procedure she should have had.

Party wild and forget, live only in the moment and screw everything else. Is that a widespread philosophy today? These people should volunteer to be sterilized for human decency or at least go gay.

And I mean no offense, but this is how our hate begins in this world this poor child will be lucky if they grow up to be kind and charismatic.

Why should rape matter? I mean what if she was on birth control or used protection that just didn't work effectively for whatever reason? Should she be forced to keep the baby and have the courts force the condom maker or the BC pill maker to sponsor a child for 18yrs?
What if she was 19 and pregnant and wanted out, why would that be different?

Wow, go gay? You know Lesbians can still opt to have children and I don't mean adopting someone else's forced to go through pregnancy, a real live one of their own. Of course, if one chooses to find and adopt one , that would be okay too.

ETA: Hating may happen when people pre-judge females who find an abortion to be their best option for whatever reason. What if she was a close friend of yours and she revealed that she had one "a while back", could you stand to be around her anymore?
Or would you hate her for not telling you her most personal details from a time when you did not know her because she felt it was nobody else's business?

reply to post by evc1shop


This subject will never end as long as we are a sexual species in a finite world.

There is no solving it. I wish I can do more than offer words but I'm too busy to save the world, let alone myself and my family. To try to change things would result in corporate interests sweeping you away for the crime of sustainable technology and accessible care for human beings. Should you succeed, all of the conservatives will have your head for limiting population growth due to the lack of room on the planet and the dearth of government sector investment into the space exploration and colonization that they somehow didnt see coming.

BlubberyConspiracy
reply to post by evc1shop

 

This subject will never end as long as we are a sexual species in a finite world.

There is no solving it...

The solution I see of listening to the woman who is carrying the pregnancy and allowing her to do as she wishes without backlash from either side would work but it involves everyone respecting her and putting their beliefs aside. So, I agree, it is not likely to happen.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Children raising children.... CLASIC!

reply to post by
evc1shop & windword

Who is being irresponsible in this case? Where is the irresponsibility in getting an abortion? Abortion is the MOST responsible choice in this scenario.
Not only the most responsible choice, the only one that guarantees a known outcome, the one the girl was asking for.

the irresponsibility was getting pregnant in the first place. clearly that was not the outcome of her actions that she was hoping for. in other words, she didnt just happen to end up in this situation you speak of, she placed herself into it.

alternative scenarios that would have avoided this:
1)contraceptive
2)abstinence
3)parental consent for abortion pre-sexual action.

she failed to adhere to any of these therefore her actions were irresponsible.

I do not know why people couldn't let her go through with it as the only person it would truly effect would be her, especially if the pregnancy was in an extremely early stage (which it was at the time she sought to have it terminated).

i used the same argument for consuming alcohol when i was 16. the law still said i wasnt old enough to make the decision to imbibe.

if i were to have been charged, it wouldnt have been a big mystery to me as to why.

reply to post by Pardon?

Or....

"I'll tell you exactly what you're going to do with your body even though I bear no relation to you whatsoever and the consequences will have no bearing on my life in the slightest".

wow...the implications if this were applied to other situations.

ill let your imaginations do the work.





I like things in balance.

im not telling her what to do with her body. Her parent is, and subsequently the state courts.Such is the law in Nebraska, for a minor in her position (excluding rape victims...which she is not). Perhaps had she looked into it before she made her decision to have sex in a manner that could possibly initiate conception, she would not be in this bind to begin with.

had she been 19 years old, she could have made the decision for herself without opposition.

but alas. irresponsibility prevails.

your post is as balanced as a hammer on a toothpick.

evc1shop

BlubberyConspiracy
reply to post by evc1shop

 

This subject will never end as long as we are a sexual species in a finite world.

There is no solving it...

The solution I see of listening to the woman who is carrying the pregnancy and allowing her to do as she wishes without backlash from either side would work but it involves everyone respecting her and putting their beliefs aside. So, I agree, it is not likely to happen.

so should we begin letting all minors do as they wish? perhaps your energy would be better directed at trying to change the age of adulthood to 16?

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

alternative scenarios that would have avoided this:
1)contraceptive
2)abstinence
3)parental consent for abortion pre-sexual action.

she failed to adhere to any of these therefore her actions were irresponsible.

You should have told everyone from the get go that you knew her personally. How else would you have such intimate knowledge about if contraception was used?

Unless you are saying contraception is a hundred percent all the time. Sounds like a legitimate rape comment.

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

I won't cover the contraception part again as Grimpachi has already mentioned that you must have known her intimately to know what she did prior to conceiving.

I do have an issue with this:

i used the same argument for consuming alcohol when i was 16. the law still said i wasnt old enough to make the decision to imbibe.

You are comparing drinking to that of conceiving totally different set of consequences.

Someone was stupid enough to get drunk, sure it happens and the drinks will wear off and they go back to normal.

Someone got pregnant, again I don't care how, it happens but she wasn't expecting to or didn't want to be. It doesn't wear off and yet she wants to be back to a non-pregnant status. Why can't she have that?

You also asked this

so should we begin letting all minors do as they wish? perhaps your energy would be better directed at trying to change the age of adulthood to 16?

I am only discussing the situation where a person's body is being controlled by another. The girl should have say in the matter. I can liken that to when a child in a divorce gets to pick which parent to live with. Yes, I know there are conditions involved in that kind of hearing but the fact that the court has to take the child's decision in these cases means that there are times when a child can be allowed to effect the outcome of their situation.

There certainly are laws for minors and I do not think minors should be doing as they wish but here, the system has failed this girl. She is old enough to know of and obtain contraceptives why isn't she old enough to deal with the aftermath of something gone wrong?

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

so should we begin letting all minors do as they wish? perhaps your energy would be better directed at trying to change the age of adulthood to 16?

Your objection to "letting minors do as they wish" flew out the window when this young women had sex without the permission of an adult first!

The only logic to forcing this young women to give birth to an unwanted child, because she's a minor, is 1) to enforce a biased pro-life agenda, or 2) to enforce a punishment on this women for having sex without permission.

Women who are forced to give birth to unwanted children will pass on that resentment, and even hatred, to that fetus through adrenaline and hormones. Their resentment and hatred will be projected onto that child after birth and those women will probably neglect and even abuse those children.

An assent to forced birth is an assent to child abuse. Anyone who condones forced birth, condones child abuse.

LurkingRelentlessly
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Or....

"I'll tell you exactly what you're going to do with your body even though I bear no relation to you whatsoever and the consequences will have no bearing on my life in the slightest".

wow...the implications if this were applied to other situations.

ill let your imaginations do the work.





I like things in balance.

im not telling her what to do with her body. Her parent is, and subsequently the state courts.Such is the law in Nebraska, for a minor in her position (excluding rape victims...which she is not). Perhaps had she looked into it before she made her decision to have sex in a manner that could possibly initiate conception, she would not be in this bind to begin with.

had she been 19 years old, she could have made the decision for herself without opposition.

but alas. irresponsibility prevails.

your post is as balanced as a hammer on a toothpick.

edit on 14-10-2013 by LurkingRelentlessly because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-10-2013 by LurkingRelentlessly because: quote tag in wrong spot

You'll find it was made to balance your Victorian point of view.
And balance it out nicely it did.

I'm guessing that there's no room for mistakes in your life?

Grimpachi
reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

 

alternative scenarios that would have avoided this:
1)contraceptive
2)abstinence
3)parental consent for abortion pre-sexual action.

she failed to adhere to any of these therefore her actions were irresponsible.

You should have told everyone from the get go that you knew her personally. How else would you have such intimate knowledge about if contraception was used?

Unless you are saying contraception is a hundred percent all the time. Sounds like a legitimate rape comment.

of course its not 100% all of the time.

had she delved into statistics like militant ATS users, the risk factor alone would have lead her to choices 2 and 3.

the responsibility still falls on her own lap. unless of course your suggesting its the fault of the [faulty] contraceptive manufacturer? i then ask you, where is the lawsuit? contraceptives have fine print on the packaging for a reason

evc1shop
reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

You are comparing drinking to that of conceiving totally different set of consequences.

Someone was stupid enough to get drunk, sure it happens and the drinks will wear off and they go back to normal.

Someone got pregnant, again I don't care how, it happens but she wasn't expecting to or didn't want to be. It doesn't wear off and yet she wants to be back to a non-pregnant status. Why can't she have that?

i am not comparing consequences, i am comparing the logic behind the "its my body it doesnt effect you" argument. Getting pregnant doesnt just "happen" unless its rape. there is nothing spontaneous about it. Both drinking and having sex are acts that involve choice. with choice comes consequence. she had avenues of prevention and they were ignored (to what extent,is at this point...irrelevant)

I am only discussing the situation where a person's body is being controlled by another. The girl should have say in the matter. I can liken that to when a child in a divorce gets to pick which parent to live with. Yes, I know there are conditions involved in that kind of hearing but the fact that the court has to take the child's decision in these cases means that there are times when a child can be allowed to effect the outcome of their situation.

this situation is not comparable. The decision to have a divorce lies with the Parents of the child. the child does not choose for the parents to divorce therefore the child is an innocent victim in a divorce case. the subsequent custody battle is irrelevant. in the case of having sex or consuming alcohol there is no innocent victim as the partaker chose to bring it on themself. When this particular event occurs in Nebraska the state puts the decision with the parent. i would be willing to guess the child did not even consult the parent beforehand, leaving the door open for a myriad of unknown outcomes. all of which should have been responsibly thought out before committing the act, thus influencing the decision.

There certainly are laws for minors and I do not think minors should be doing as they wish but here, the system has failed this girl. She is old enough to know of and obtain contraceptives why isn't she old enough to deal with the aftermath of something gone wrong?

i do not know i did not write the law. hence the suggestion to attempt changing it.

the most i can offer in this regard is a guess... perhaps it is assumed that the minor has already ironed out the details of an failed-contraceptive event with their parent/guardian and already has the OK to have an abortion?

the system has not failed the girl, the girl (or possibly her parents) have failed the system, by getting to "the point of no return" (so to speak) before addressing possible negative outcomes.

reply to windword

Your objection to "letting minors do as they wish" flew out the window when this young women had sex without the permission of an adult first!

The only logic to forcing this young women to give birth to an unwanted child, because she's a minor, is 1) to enforce a biased pro-life agenda, or 2) to enforce a punishment on this women for having sex without permission.

#2 is correct, except the term punishment is subjective. consequence is more appropriate.

Women who are forced to give birth to unwanted children will pass on that resentment, and even hatred, to that fetus through adrenaline and hormones. Their resentment and hatred will be projected onto that child after birth and those women will probably neglect and even abuse those children.

this is a generalization.

An assent to forced birth is an assent to child abuse. Anyone who condones forced birth, condones child abuse.

and this is an absolute. even after using the word "probably" in your previous statement . im sorry the 2 just dont jive.

reply to post by Pardon?


im not sure i understand. is that supposed to be a summery of my point of view? the state of nebraska's? or perhaps the mother? the courts?

they are not all the same position. although i could see how your being obtuse might somewhat blur them all together. please clarify.

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

#2 is correct, except the term punishment is subjective. consequence is more appropriate.

No, "punishment" is the appropriate term. The young women is being forced to give birth to an unwanted child. Abortion is a solution that is available, but she is being denied this solution, either because of a biased pro-life agenda or as a punishment.

Personally, I see this forced birth as a biased decision based on a pro-life agenda. But you, however, have shown your true colors in promoting the idea that women should be punished for having (perhaps unprotected) sex. I do believe that if it was up to you, all women would be forced to give to birth to unwanted children.

An assent to forced birth is an assent to child abuse. Anyone who condones forced birth, condones child abuse.

and this is an absolute. even after using the word "probably" in your previous statement . im sorry the 2 just dont jive.

It's a logical deduction. Forced birth leads to resentment and even hatred for that child after it's born. Hatred and resentment towards a child leads to neglect and abuse of the unwanted and hated child.

Promoting a levied punishment, in the form of forced birth, is akin to promoting neglect and child abuse, not to mention slavery.

reply to post by windword


fine i guess we can play the pick-a-part game if you insist.

No, "punishment" is the appropriate term

its only seen that one from one perspective. the courts see it as a consequence. for all you or i know the girl may see it as a blessing 9 months from now. hence subjective, not at all appropriate.

The young women is being forced to give birth to an unwanted child.

she is not being forced to do anything. shes being denied her wanted route. the denial does not constitute force, as left alone nature would take its course. the only form of a forced birthing process is rape.

Abortion is a solution that is available, but she is being denied this solution, either because of a biased pro-life agenda or as a punishment.

she is being denied this solution because of LAW.

Personally, I see this forced birth as a biased decision based on a pro-life agenda. But you, however, have shown your true colors in promoting the idea that women should be punished for having (perhaps unprotected) sex. I do believe that if it was up to you, all women would be forced to give to birth to unwanted children.

you can believe whatever you want. i am playing devils advocate and arguing the law of the land. if the law said that all people over 6 feet tall must stand on their head at 3 oclock, then that would be my position. but it doesnt seem to matter what i say your going to overwrite it with your own bias regardless.

It's a logical deduction. Forced birth leads to resentment and even hatred for that child after it's born. Hatred and resentment towards a child leads to neglect and abuse of the unwanted and hated child.

Promoting a levied punishment, in the form of forced birth, is akin to promoting neglect and child abuse, not to mention slavery.

ok. prove it objectively.

no hypothetical scenarios.

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly

No, "punishment" is the appropriate term

its only seen that one from one perspective. the courts see it as a consequence. for all you or i know the girl may see it as a blessing 9 months from now. hence subjective, not at all appropriate.

A criminal may see jail as a blessing in the future. But it's still a punishment.

The young women is being forced to give birth to an unwanted child.

she is not being forced to do anything. shes being denied her wanted route. the denial does not constitute force, as left alone nature would take its course. the only form of a forced birthing process is rape.

Since this young women is not yet the age of consent, this very well could be considered rape. By denying her access to a legal and safe abortion, she is being forced to give birth to an unwanted child. In this case, denial of this legal procedure is tantamount to slavery through forced birth.

When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to 'involuntary servitude' in violation of the Thirteenth Amendment….[E]ven if the woman has stipulated to have consented to the risk of pregnancy, that does not permit the state to force her to remain pregnant

Abortion is a solution that is available, but she is being denied this solution, either because of a biased pro-life agenda or as a punishment.

she is being denied this solution because of LAW.

No. She's being denied this solution because this judge is pushing his well known pro-life bias from the bench. There is no law that denies a minor an abortion.

Personally, I see this forced birth as a biased decision based on a pro-life agenda. But you, however, have shown your true colors in promoting the idea that women should be punished for having (perhaps unprotected) sex. I do believe that if it was up to you, all women would be forced to give to birth to unwanted children.

you can believe whatever you want. i am playing devils advocate and arguing the law of the land. if the law said that all people over 6 feet tall must stand on their head at 3 oclock, then that would be my position. but it doesnt seem to matter what i say your going to overwrite it with your own bias regardless.

THIS is the LAW OF THE LAND

The Court asserted that the government had two competing interests – protecting the mother's health and protecting the "potentiality of human life". Following its earlier logic, the Court stated that during the first trimester, when the procedure is more safe than childbirth, the decision to abort must be left to the mother and her physician. The State has the right to intervene prior to fetal viability only to protect the health of the mother, and may regulate the procedure after viability so long as there is always an exception for preserving maternal health. The Court additionally added that the primary right being preserved in the Roe decision was that of the physician's right to practice medicine freely absent a compelling state interest – not women's rights in general.[28] The Court explicitly rejected a fetal "right to life" argument

It's a logical deduction. Forced birth leads to resentment and even hatred for that child after it's born. Hatred and resentment towards a child leads to neglect and abuse of the unwanted and hated child.

Promoting a levied punishment, in the form of forced birth, is akin to promoting neglect and child abuse, not to mention slavery.

ok. prove it objectively.

no hypothetical scenarios.

You want me to provide proof that hate begets hate, that mothers who hate their children abuse them?

How about at risk situations?

The Child Abuse and Father Absence Connection

The rate of child abuse in single parent households is 27.3 children per 1,000, which is nearly twice the rate of child abuse in two parent households (15.5 children per 1,000).
An analysis of child abuse cases in a nationally representative sample of 42 counties found that children from single parent families are more likely to be victims of physical and sexual abuse than children who live with both biological parents. Compared to their peers living with both parents, children in single parent homes had:
77 percent greater risk of being physically abused
87 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical neglect
165 percent greater risk of experiencing notable physical neglect
74 percent greater risk of suffering from emotional neglect
80 percent greater risk of suffering serious injury as a result of abuse
120 percent greater risk of experiencing some type of maltreatment overall.

This young women in question comes from an abusive situation.

Marital Conflict and Domestic Violence
According to published studies, in 30 to 60 percent of families where spouse abuse takes place, child maltreatment also occurs.50 Children in violent homes may witness parental violence, may be victims of physical abuse themselves, and may be neglected by parents who are focused on their partners or unresponsive to their children due to their own fears.51 A child who witnesses parental violence is at risk for also being maltreated, but, even if the child is not maltreated, he or she may experience harmful emotional consequences from witnessing the parental violence

Parent or Caregiver Factors
Parent or caregiver factors potentially contributing to maltreatment relate to:

Personality characteristics and psychological well-being
History of maltreatment
Substance abuse
Attitudes and knowledge
Age

Age
Caretaker age may be a risk factor for some forms of maltreatment, although research findings are inconsistent. Some studies of physical abuse, in particular, have found that mothers who were younger at the birth of their child exhibited higher rates of child abuse than did older mothers. Other contributing factors, such as lower economic status, lack of social support, and high stress levels may influence the link between younger childbirth—particularly teenage parenthood—and child abuse

www.childwelfare.gov...

Babies born to teenagers are at risk for neglect and abuse because their young mothers are uncertain about their roles and may be frustrated by the constant demands of caretaking. Parents of teenagers can help prevent teenage pregnancy through open communication and by providing guidance to their children about sexuality, contraception, and the risks and responsibilities of sexual relationships and pregnancy.

Some teenage girls drop out of school to have their babies and don't return. In this way, pregnant teens lose the opportunity to learn skills necessary for employment and self-survival as adults. School classes in family life and sexual education, as well as clinics providing reproductive information and birth control to young people, can also help to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

www.aacap.org...

More on at risk teen mothers and child abuse HERE