Being christian while rejecting important OT figures?

reply to post by FlyersFan

You know very well that the stories and the people are intertwined.

Good point.

Let Jesus decide. He said :

"Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." - Luke 24:44

But since you insult Moses, and reject many other prophets and figures AND denigrate the Law of Moses... your personal belief in Jesus is not even rooted in the New Testament.

sk0rpi0n
Your "Christianity" holds no water, theologically.

ha ha ha ha ... says the Muslim who hates Christianity and spends more time trying to destroy the faith of Christians then anything else. I'll say the same thing to you that you said to Sahabi when he wrote the 'Quran is Corrupt' thread ....

You told him that he can't read a few books and argue with hundreds and hundreds of years of Islamic scholars. According to you, he isn't qualified and doesn't understand.

Well .. right back atchya. You can't read a few books and argue with THOUSANDS of years of Christian scholars. You aren't qualified and you don't understand basic theology.

Because without belief in Adam, there was no "original sin". Without original sin, the doctrine of Jesus' "sin sacrifice" is without foundation.

'Original sin' was a term invented by the Catholic Church.
Jesus saves people from their own sinful nature.
And 'sin sacrifice' refers to ALL SIN ... not just the Catholic 'original sin'.
Hang it up. Your arm chair anti-christian theology is pretty damn weak.

Your "statistics" only show that millions of Christians not believing their own bibles... thereby indicating that that Christianity is on the verge of collapse.

1 - No, it's not.
2 - Your fantasies about a christian-free world are getting in the way of your view of reality.

Every time you say that I am 'not a christian' and that other Christians would reject me as one, you look more and more ridiculous. I have proven that hundreds of millions of Christians agree with me and that we are all Christians. Being a Christian is very simple .... believe that Jesus came from Heaven to save people from their sins, and try to follow his commandments of love God and love neighbor. That's it. There are MANY different beliefs under the Christian umbrella. (just like there are many different beliefs under the Hindu umbrella). You aren't qualified to say who is a Christian and who isn't. That's between God and the person who says they are a Christian.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Shoot and miss. My God ... you really are obsessed with trying to say I'm not a Christian. Even with all the facts presented showing you wrong, you are still flailing away ... Major obsession. It's pretty sick.

Again .... The ONLY requirements to be a Christian ... Believe that Jesus came from Heaven to
save people from their sins ... Try to follow Jesus command of Love God and Neighbor.

FlyersFan

sk0rpi0n
Your "Christianity" holds no water, theologically.

you don't understand basic theology.

Apparently neither do you.

OpinionatedB
Apparently neither do you.

Your 'drive by' = failure.

You, as a Shia or Sunni or whatever you think you are, have voluntarily encumbered yourself with all sorts of self imposed rules and restrictions and beliefs and rituals. That's your choice.

Christians are under a wide umbrella and have different beliefs.
That's something you Muslims don't seem capable of understanding.

Since you are so stuck on getting theology correct, answer this question - Which Muslims have their theology correct ... the Shia or the Sunni? How about you people figure out your own mess before you use biased armchair theology to try to tell Christians what they need to be doing in order to be a Christian. (You get it wrong every time.)

reply to post by FlyersFan

Abraham didn't prophecy about Jesus.

Really? What about the verse in NT that you use to claim divinity for Jesus pbuh? "Before Abraham was, I am"
didnt Jesus pbuh himself claimed that Abraham pbuh was happy to see this day?
Was Jesus pbuh lying to the Jews to make him appear more authentic? Or rather you are wrong in your stand and custom made religion trying to white wash it so that nobody can attack you?

Also centuries of christian scholarship accept the prophets of OT but you don't.

reply to post by FlyersFan


why should we get all on the same page before criticizing those who call us evil and possessed? You all don't have to apparently with your religion since there are about 400 sects of Christianity... so why is there a double standard?

At least I try to understand your religion, you don't even make an effort to understand mine.

logical7
What about the verse in NT that you use to claim divinity for Jesus pbuh? "Before Abraham was, I am"
didnt Jesus pbuh himself claimed that Abraham pbuh was happy to see this day? Was Jesus pbuh lying to the Jews to make him appear more authentic?

How about YOU answer that? If Jesus tells the truth and that scripture is accurate, then you should believe that Jesus is God incarnate. And if Jesus is God incarnate, then your extremist-Muslim sharia-law religion is irrelevant and in error.

No where in scripture did Abraham prophecy about Jesus. And no where does it say if Abraham was happy to 'see Jesus day' while he was alive, or if it happened after death and he was shown what was to come while in Heaven.

The story of Abraham, if he existed, is folklore. The person could be real, but the story surrounding him had been convoluted over 1500 years of being passed around by word of mouth. It's totally untrustworthy and it's not necessary to believe it in order to be a Christian.

Also centuries of christian scholarship accept the prophets of OT but you don't.

Again .... it's unnecessary to believe in them in order to be a Christian. That's a fact.


The obsession you muslims have in trying to define who is a Christian and what they need to believe in order to be a Christian is amusing. You people can't even figure out what a 'real muslim' is .. and yet you try to dig into Christianity. Funny. And rather strange.

FlyersFan

logical7
What about the verse in NT that you use to claim divinity for Jesus pbuh? "Before Abraham was, I am"
didnt Jesus pbuh himself claimed that Abraham pbuh was happy to see this day? Was Jesus pbuh lying to the Jews to make him appear more authentic?

You people can't even figure out what a 'real muslim' is .. and yet you try to dig into Christianity. Funny. And rather strange.

edit on 12/12/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

And the pot calls the kettle black.

OpinionatedB
why should we get all on the same page before criticizing those who call us evil and possessed?

1 - Picking up a rock and bashing in someones head with it for 20 minutes is evil.
I don't care if you take offense at that statement.
2 - Don't play innocent. YOU got caught in lies against me.

You all don't have to apparently with your religion since there are about 400 sects of Christianity... so why is there a double standard?

1 - Well at least you finally admit that there are different beliefs in Christianity.
2 - For a person to point fingers at Christians and claim that they aren't real Christians, and then not only refuse to understand Christianity but also belong to a religion that can't figure out it's own theological mess .... That behavior is absurd.

Again .. answer the question. Which is theologically correct? Shia or Sunni?
When you people figure that out let us know.
Muslims have theological differences within the Muslim umbrella.
So do Christians.

At least I try to understand your religion, you don't even make an effort to understand mine.

No you aren't. You aren't trying to 'understand' it. You are just pontificating about what you
think it should be and refusing to acknowledge the facts about what it really is when presented.


Again .. you people have a strange obsession ... You scream at me that I'm not a 'real christian' and refuse to acknowledge the fact that I have proven that I am. AND IT'S NOT EVEN YOUR RELIGION. Very strange behavior.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I am trying to understand your religion, the one called Christianity anyway... just ask my husband whether or not that is a true statement.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how you can claim to speak from the Christian perspective and not the atheist perspective when you reject everything in the book outside of one sentence, but that's ok, because not even Christians can understand that one!

I get you on the atheist perspective though... not a problem there. I don't expect an atheist to understand anything about a God who punishes evil or who cannot have it near to HIM.

OpinionatedB
And the pot calls the kettle black.

Another drive-by insult failure on your part.

I wouldn't go around telling a shia or a sunni or a 'stand alone' or whatever that they are or aren't a 'real muslim'.
1 - I wouldn't care.
2 - I wouldn't know.
3 - It would be STRANGE BEHAVIOR for me to become OBSESSED with doing so. Obsessive behavior about someone else's religious choices ... If I did that then I'd need mental health help.


So which is correct? Which is the 'real muslim'?? Shia or Sunni?
Answer the question. out loud. For everyone to see.
Tell us how Shia aren't real Muslims because they dont' follow _____.
Or tell us how Sunni aren't real Muslims because the don't follow ____.
I triple dog dare you to answer those questions honestly ...
You are so hyped up on trying to tell Christians if they are real Christians or not.
I'm sure you have opinions on who a 'real muslim' is as well.

reply to post by FlyersFan


From where you got the definition of what a christian is? Umm.. Let me guess, you made it up. I know people who are "christians" but don't believe in divinity of Jesus pbuh, so do you accept them as christians too?
Or you believe in the philosophy "anyone driving fast that me is a jerk and anyone slower is a moron"!!!

Jesus pbuh mentioned Abraham pbuh so he must be important and a prophet. Jesus pbuh wouldnt say that some egyptian pharoah was happy to see his day etc
Jesus pbuh also talked about Moses pbuh.

Its just inconsistent to believe a man to be god and yet not agree to whatever things he said and acknowledge the prophets he acknowledged.

Btw why do you not acknowledge the prophets? Because they are painted as bad guys in OT?

@ nenothtu
.....
''You must have missed the whole "sinful nature of man" thing then.'' _________________________________________ The ''sinful nature of man thing'' is directly related to that naughty thing Adam did. Paul teaches that in Romans. Thats what christians believe. No adam = no original sin = no sin sacrifice = jesus becomes a criminal executed by the Romans _________________________________________ unless christianity is some Believe- what-you-want religion, Belief in Adam and the prophets are important to belief in Jesus. ''christians'' who believe otherwise live by their personal churches, not christian canon about Jesus.

OpinionatedB
I don't expect an atheist to understand anything about a God who punishes evil or who cannot have it near to HIM.

(**oh god give me patience ... ) For you to run around and call people 'atheists' or say that they 'hate God' because they do not believe that parts of the Old Testament come from God is extremist and absurd. And you saying that people who don't believe in parts of the Old Testament somehow think that they think God won't punish evil ... that's a bizarre and extreme conclusion to come to.

Just because someone believes that God wouldn't order stoning a person to death doesn't mean that they don't believe in God and doesn't mean that they don't think God would eventually punish sin.

Jesus is Mercy Incarnate. Jesus taught forgiveness and second chances and he told people to put down the rocks and 'go and do not sin'. Stoning a person to death is the opposite of Jesus. Christians look to Jesus as the example. Mercy. Love of neighbor. Forgiveness. 2nd chances.

You have wrapped yourself up in severe laws made by humans claiming to be speaking for God.
Christians look to Jesus ... love god and neighbor. Mercy. 2nd Chances. Forgiveness.

How on earth you can call that 'hating God' or 'atheist' .... that's simply WILD.

Oops..... wrong thread

logical7
From where you got the definition of what a christian is? Umm.. Let me guess, you made it up.

You guess wrong. As usual.
Definition of Christian

I know people who are "christians" but don't believe in divinity of Jesus pbuh, so do you accept them as christians too?

Of course.

Or you believe in the philosophy "anyone driving fast that me is a jerk and anyone slower is a moron"!!!

Grow up.

You failed to answer the question.
If Jesus quoted Abraham like that, then Jesus must be God incarnate.
Do you believe Jesus said those things?
If so .. then why are you still Muslim? It's obviously a just a crock?
If not ... then you have no business even asking about it because it's irrelevant.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I don't think an Atheist hates God, I think the atheist simply doesn't know God.

I would call someone who claimed to know God yet called everything God did and said evil a person who is in the same boat as the shaytan.

And honestly, I would like to see you out of that particular boat. I don't think its a good place for anyone to be in... sorry if that hurts you.

sk0rpi0n
Belief in Adam and the prophets are important to belief in Jesus. ''christians'' who believe otherwise live by their personal churches, not christian canon about Jesus.

Wow ... 11 pages of credible basic information that directly contradict your personal I-hate-christianity theology on this ... and you are still pumping out that B.S. Amazing.

I'm finding your obsession with trying to disprove Christians who say they are Christians rather interesting ... and strange. What's with your hangup with this? Why do you care that those who worship God under the Christian umbrella call themselves Christians?? There are many different beliefs under that umbrella, just like the Hindus have many different beliefs under the Hindu umbrella. You aren't even Christian ... so what's the big deal for you?

OpinionatedB
I would call someone who claimed to know God yet called everything God did and said evil a person who is in the same boat as the shaytan.

GOD DID NOT DO WHAT THE OLD TESTAMENT CLAIMS HE DID
You believe those myths and allegories and folklores as literal.
But the Old Testament was NOT written to be taken literally.
Very few Christians do. Most understand it's not to be taken that way.

To say that someone 'hates' God because they reject those stories as not accurate ...
that's an INSANE thing to say about someone ....

You still didn't answer the question -
which is the real Muslim ... Shia or Sunni. Why?
If the Shia doesn't agree with your version of Islam, does that mean they hate God?
If the Sunni doesn't agree with your version of Islam, does that mean they hate God?
Can't you understand that different people see God differently and yet they still are
striving to love Him and worship Him?