to be a gay christian...

markosity1973
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

The truth indeed. And they will become enraged when you point out some of the many ambiguous passages that not so subtly portray gay in a positive light, claiming that we are imagining things, misreading text or that we are just making stuff up to cause trouble.

The story of David and Saul is a great gay love story to get the bible bashers foaming at the mouth with anger for example. Even Jesus spoke about gays when he mentions eunuchs , which was the contemporary term for both castrated men AND gays in his day.

You mean how David killed Saul? WTF?

Do you mean that all the soldiers in all the wars are gay? They'll probably beat your face in for such an assertion, you need to understand male bonding more.

This is why men are particularly anti-homosexual, because homosexuals take male bonding and make it a case for gaysex.

Tylerdurden1
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Where I hear a christian call a gay person a "homo" then I can allready tell that the "christian" in question thinks that person is dirty or sick.

I have heard so many christians sum up gay people in the most worst way possible. Thats what Im talking about. They sum them up without getting to know them...just like I did with my post.

Do you get it now?

How about all the insults liberals use against homosexuals? You'd think with how sensitive you are against Christians you'd hate Democrats just as much.

FreeMason

You mean how David killed Saul? WTF?

Do you mean that all the soldiers in all the wars are gay? They'll probably beat your face in for such an assertion, you need to understand male bonding more.

This is why men are particularly anti-homosexual, because homosexuals take male bonding and make it a case for gay sex.

Okay, let's start by correcting my error of David and Saul, when I actually meant David and Jonathon.

Secondly, let me as a gay man touch on the subject of male bonding - I think you will find I know all about it.

As a gay person, whenever I meet another male in every day life, I automatically assume he is straight. There is at least a 90% chance that I am correct, so why wouldn't I?

As a result I have met and shared some extraordinarily close emotional (yet entirely platonic) relationships with straight men. These men actually do include several Army boys who love their gay drinking buddy because among other things they can hassle him about his sexuality and he just laughs it off and gets them back with his own jokes about being straight.

A number of these men have told me that they have changed their views on gay people because of knowing me. i.e. they realise we gay people are no threat and can make a good mate. In fact I find once they are over the initial fear that I am 'after them' they relax to the point where they act very kamp and make me laugh out loud.

Some of the things I have learned are (these are generalizations, I know that there are exceptions)

* Men totally suck at showing their feelings.
* Most guys only begin to loosen up and show their true selves after a few drinks
* Men act all chauvanistic and alpha male in groups, but put a female (especially their Mrs) in their midst and they become all nice and polite all of a sudden.
* Men, especially those in the armed forces and in situations where they rely on one another for their lives and / or safety do become very close. They tend to form little 'tribes'
* Men do have close one on one mates, but there is absolutely no sexual connotations in their friendship.

So, all of this being borne in mind, here are a few of the verses on Jonathon and David that point to a very close relationship that to any gay person seems like it was just a bit more that a blood brother relationship.

1 Samuel 18:1 - And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.


1 Samuel 18:3 - Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.

1 Samuel 18:4 - And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that [was] upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

1 Samuel 20:41 - [And] as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of [a place] toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

1 Samuel 20:30 - Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious [woman], do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?

Naturally any straight man is going to say that this is just a close friendship, because the thought of it being a gay one is so repulsive to them, we all get that in the gay world.

BUT, guys stripping off naked and sharing clothes, then, crying and weeping over one another, being cursed by Saul for choosing 'the son of Jesse'.... I dunno from a gay person's perspective it's all pretty suss

Then of course there is the infamous declaration at Jonathon's funeral;

2 Samuel 1:26 - I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

I don't know of any bloke that would declare that he loved his mate more than his Mrs personally. Guys do get close, and they do enjoy one another's company but at the end of the day most of them go home to what they truly love in life; their wife and family.

markosity1973

FreeMason

You mean how David killed Saul? WTF?

Do you mean that all the soldiers in all the wars are gay? They'll probably beat your face in for such an assertion, you need to understand male bonding more.

This is why men are particularly anti-homosexual, because homosexuals take male bonding and make it a case for gay sex.

Okay, let's start by correcting my error of David and Saul, when I actually meant David and Jonathon.

Secondly, let me as a gay man touch on the subject of male bonding - I think you will find I know all about it.

As a gay person, whenever I meet another male in every day life, I automatically assume he is straight. There is at least a 90% chance that I am correct, so why wouldn't I?

As a result I have met and shared some extraordinarily close emotional (yet entirely platonic) relationships with straight men. These men actually do include several Army boys who love their gay drinking buddy because among other things they can hassle him about his sexuality and he just laughs it off and gets them back with his own jokes about being straight.

A number of these men have told me that they have changed their views on gay people because of knowing me. i.e. they realise we gay people are no threat and can make a good mate. In fact I find once they are over the initial fear that I am 'after them' they relax to the point where they act very kamp and make me laugh out loud.

Some of the things I have learned are (these are generalizations, I know that there are exceptions)

* Men totally suck at showing their feelings.
* Most guys only begin to loosen up and show their true selves after a few drinks
* Men act all chauvanistic and alpha male in groups, but put a female (especially their Mrs) in their midst and they become all nice and polite all of a sudden.
* Men, especially those in the armed forces and in situations where they rely on one another for their lives and / or safety do become very close. They tend to form little 'tribes'
* Men do have close one on one mates, but there is absolutely no sexual connotations in their friendship.

So, all of this being borne in mind, here are a few of the verses on Jonathon and David that point to a very close relationship that to any gay person seems like it was just a bit more that a blood brother relationship.

1 Samuel 18:1 - And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.


1 Samuel 18:3 - Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.

1 Samuel 18:4 - And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that [was] upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

1 Samuel 20:41 - [And] as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of [a place] toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

1 Samuel 20:30 - Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious [woman], do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?

Naturally any straight man is going to say that this is just a close friendship, because the thought of it being a gay one is so repulsive to them, we all get that in the gay world.

BUT, guys stripping off naked and sharing clothes, then, crying and weeping over one another, being cursed by Saul for choosing 'the son of Jesse'.... I dunno from a gay person's perspective it's all pretty suss

Then of course there is the infamous declaration at Jonathon's funeral;

2 Samuel 1:26 - I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

I don't know of any bloke that would declare that he loved his mate more than his Mrs personally. Guys do get close, and they do enjoy one another's company but at the end of the day most of them go home to what they truly love in life; their wife and family.

edit on 12-10-2013 by markosity1973 because: grammar

My entire response was in relation to David and Saul whom I thought you were conflating their warrior/chivalry into a homoerotic fantasy.

But I think you should read the Four Loves, which will help you to see that sexual passion for someone is almost the opposite of love.

Love is entirely removed from a sexual desire, and today we conflate lust with love.

reply to post by FreeMason


I can see there is little point in continuing this conversation as you are taking it for granted that because I put forward a view point that upsets your beliefs I must therefore be uneducated.

Just to clarify for my own benefit.(no im not gay, no im not looking for a religion to join lol)
Does muslims embrace homosexuality, or jews?

Also, title of this thread is a little misleading.
Thought i was going to read a gay christians perspective on things.
This is basically just turning into another bashing thread, IMHO

I agree with the original post.

If you are gay , it doesn't make sense to surround yourself with people who do not accept and understand you.

arpgme
I agree with the original post.

If you are gay , it doesn't make sense to surround yourself with people who do not accept and understand you.

No it does not, but then as gay people we live in a world that is pretty much what you have just described whether religion is involved or not......

God is not anti-gay. Jesus is not anti-gay. Christianity is not anti-gay.

Only unenlightened people who like to scratch up a few small passages from a book that is enormous in size in order to justify their hatred are anti-gay.

reply to post by markosity1973


I Don't know about Jesus since he didnt speak on this homosexuality directly, and since he said God is Love,

But God himself in the old testament said to kill gays, it also said women are to be seen as lower than men, no equality. They cannot lead a church and be as close to God.

The God of the bible does not get my respect since he was controling, violent, unfair, and approved of slavery.

(He freed the Jews then said it's ok to enslave each other for 6 years and those from other countries for life. )

arpgme
reply to post by markosity1973

 

I Don't know about Jesus since he didnt speak on this homosexuality directly, and since he said God is Love,

But God himself in the old testament said to kill gays, it also said women are to be seen as lower than men, no equality. They cannot lead a church and be as close to God.

The God of the bible does not get my respect since he was controling, violent, unfair, and approved of slavery.

(He freed the Jews then said it's ok to enslave each other for 6 years and those from other countries for life. )

The only words that can be 100% trusted as being those from God himself in the old testament are the ten commitments because god wrote them himself and handed them to moses directly.

There is absolutely no proof that God said anything of the sort about gay people, and since with exception of said ten commandments everything else was penned by man, it is more than likely that opinions and 'god would say that if i asked him' quotes slipped in.

All the old testament really shows us is how blood thirsty and war like life used to be back in the day. Jesus was the revolutionary who among other things taught us to turn the other cheek instead of seek revenge.

reply to post by markosity1973


You know whats interesting? The part of the bible where God says he hates gay people was written by The Levites (a type of ancient jewish priest), of course as priests they will say they had direct access to God and everyone else is wrong.

so maybe you are right.

Maybe God is love and religions winds up complicating things.

Right now, I just focus on the white light of kindness wishing the best for all.

arpgme
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Maybe God is love and religions winds up complicating things.

Now you get where I am coming from

And you do as I do; focus on the positive side of spirituality. After all if God is out there, but all he seeks to do is make us miserable (which I do not believe for a second), then why would we bother following him?