US adults are dumber than the average human

reply to post by Eryiedes


You're welcome! I hope that the little defense related bits on education is an eye opener for some. A lot of times when we think of our schools, we visualize kind of ditzy and awkward teachers who often times seem to try too hard to be cool for students. What we don't realize is how much research gets poured into what those ditzy and most of the time well meaning teachers do. I don't blame the teachers. In fact, I used to do volunteer work for a school so I can pretty safely say that most teachers become teachers for the right reasons. Instead, I lay the blame on educational psychology.

in the name of educational psychology, hypnosis has been used as have drugs. EMG biofeedback, fMRIs, and god only knows what else that I didn't find. It's left a scorch mark across my heart that I fear is permanent at this point. What has been seen can never be unseen.

I was given a chatbot to play with through my specialized education program. Her name was Eliza and she was one hell of a "toy": nlp-addiction.com...

Witness2008

Maxatoria
There is always the factor of the questions asked, i'm great at certain subjects so if you ask me to do some mental maths i'll probably do it but the mrs can translate between lord knows how many languages and to her its as easy as anything, we all have our strengths and weaknesses

I agree with this. I have a mechanic that can fix anything, find anything, improvises like no one else, but would be hard pressed to name one bordering state. More importantly, he is happy with his life, and could care less what anyone thinks.

I hate this educational guilting. I was married to a man that carried around his institutional intellect like a peacock, but could never figure out the laundry room. I'll take common sense and happiness over knowledge that is shoved down our throats, that in the end never really serves us.

edit on 8-10-2013 by Witness2008 because: (no reason given)

Some people have good genetics and they have survival skills,... but for those who don't and there are a whole lot of them), an education certainly wouldn't hurt not just for their sake, but for ours (as a country) as well.

Metaphysique

beezzer

Metaphysique
reply to post by tadaman

 

Denial is not a river in Aegypt.

just so you know.

Atlantis is the capital of Georgia.

Kidding. "G" is the capital of Georgia.

careful beez, you're sounding like a beauty pageant contestant

"lie down with dogs..."

as for wisdom there's even less of that in the homeland than intelligence or education, witness the downward spiral it's going through, a subject you've covered various aspects of in your threadwork.


@tadaman: all I see is version, albeit twisted of a socrates quote, used to glorify ignorance, Ive been seeing versions of that, personally for the past 30 years. agree about academia being part of the problem though. also agree regarding importance of early environment etc. I can honestly say I've learned more from reading and doing than from school and college.

@Advantage: no doubt some Sybyl on an off day, during the last days of rome, expressed similar statements

@ to all: refusal to address the problem and crack jokes does not help, quite the contrary.

edit on 8-10-2013 by Metaphysique because: added edit & comment

Sibyl. Its a sibyl on the last days of Rome. Lower case unless youre speaking about a sufferer of MPD in a movie. Has nothing to do with what I said though.

Refusal to address the problem? Its been addressed on here numerous times and for those of us who has chosen to buck the system or be involved in our community it is addressed continuously. Perhaps you are attributing too much importance to message boards and posts.
Jokes are bad and do not help? Unless your last name is Allin, Irvine or Gray, you dont dictate who jokes and who does not here or in any thread. Jokes on this board have no more effect on the US educational system than serious posts. (Regardless of how wordily obtuse in order to mimic a post with actual information they are.. or are not.)

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Genetics has little do with anything, other than maybe how ones body looks.

Compulsory, institutionalized education is the reason that the West has been deemed less than average. Learning is always hands on, and the more fun you are having learning, the more you will put that knowledge to work for the world. I hated school, and for that reason I did only what was required of me. I would go home at the end of the day and would read, read, and read all of the books I enjoyed. I learned more in my bedroom than the classroom.

What in the world does remembering historical dates and names, the square root of any number, or the geographical location of the U.N have to do with life in general?

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."
Einstien

Who set the standards for who is smart and who is not so smart?

reply to post by TDawgRex


For the most part, i agree with your assessment. I wholly agree with the assessment of the article.

I didn't have education (3 semesters at a Baptist University before they pissed me off and I left). My dad was an electrical lineman in the oilfield, my mom a payroll clerk for the same oilfield service company. My job prospects based on what they could do for me would be to either work as a clerk in a hardware store, or a drilling rig employee of some sort (by now I would be making damn good money if i coulda made myself do the entry level stuff 20 years ago).

While I get the whole, "Victim of your circumstances" thing....i can't help but feel that people who develop a "no excuses" outlook would find a way to climb the socioeconomic ladder.

I think a big portion of it has to do with the welfare culture we have developed, along with the stifling of the middle management class of workers.

Wow this is awsum. Ferst we fynd out that amuricens are fattester than everione and now we fynd out that, wunce agen, weer bester than the rest at being stoopid.


evryone!

Yew S Aye
Yew S Aye
Yew S Aye
Yew S Aye



Here's what's sort of ironic. Someone had to conduct research and a study to determine what is painfully obvious by just watching youtube, the news and talking to the locals.

Talk about stupid. I could have provided the same results without all the work.

FYI, we're also lazier than the rest

reply to post by Crakeur

Here's what's sort of ironic. Someone had to conduct research and a study to determine what is painfully obvious by just watching youtube, the news and talking to the locals. Talk about stupid. I could have provided the same results without all the work. FYI, we're also lazier than the rest

I suppose it depends on who's youtube channel you focus on. There are plenty of smart folks on you tube learning and those that are passing on what they know.

What parts of the population do you see as the laziest?

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

For the most part, i agree with your assessment. I wholly agree with the assessment of the article.

I didn't have education (3 semesters at a Baptist University before they pissed me off and I left). My dad was an electrical lineman in the oilfield, my mom a payroll clerk for the same oilfield service company. My job prospects based on what they could do for me would be to either work as a clerk in a hardware store, or a drilling rig employee of some sort (by now I would be making damn good money if i coulda made myself do the entry level stuff 20 years ago).

While I get the whole, "Victim of your circumstances" thing....i can't help but feel that people who develop a "no excuses" outlook would find a way to climb the socioeconomic ladder.

I think a big portion of it has to do with the welfare culture we have developed, along with the stifling of the middle management class of workers.

Hey BFFT
I agree on the no excuses outlook.
My father left the rez in the 60's, moved from Montana to Louisiana, and started a construction company. When I was in my late teens he owned several construction and demolition companies. Given you cant do that as easily today, but its the WILL to succeed. The innner driving force to do what you want and learn it if you dont know it. He did it with a rez education for Gods sake. My parents sent me to the best schools and I attended one of the best universities in the country according to my interests. I was disgusted with my kids' schools so I pulled them out and homeschooled them. A large portion of their learning process is supporting their inner talents.. what they have shown me thus far anyway!

Its a whole combination of things, but I think that some folks have that will and others just dont. I have a damned hard time looking down on others if they simply dont have that in them. About 2 or so yrs ago we were talking in a thread about IQ. You know how that goes.... everyone is a genius. Anyway, a few can put their money where their mouths are and we spoke elsewhere. Ill say it again : Id prefer to have ONE person of average intelligence with drive, determination, and ingenuity than a room full of hubris filled high IQers droning on. Passing certain tests is passing a test. THINKING and DOING can only be seen in the field... specifically when youre talking about larger groups of people. Everyone has a spot I think. A niche. Intelligent to not intelligent at all. One of the largest problems is that we have told the less intelligent they have to force their square peg to fit in a round hole.. so they feel striving for success is futile.. and then we dumb down for them and cancel out the intellgent ones expanding their intelligence. Craziness.. a recipe for what we have today.

reply to post by Crakeur


Well, this was not US-oriented. Simply US gets the headline.

At the end such studies are necessary, especially for countries who actually try to raise the quality of their education system - there are some. It shows well enough, which countries might be considered as examples to learn from.

Round here for example, due to neighbouring nations scoring better and have similar temperament and culture, then it is very uncommon to send teachers to watch how it is done there and try experimenting with their principles round here.

Witness2008


What parts of the population do you see as the laziest?

Most of them.

The least lazy are the illegal immigrants, but, sadly, we can't count them.


And, no, I'm not kidding.

But this is not about the lazy americans, it's the dumb ones and we are, sadly, lacking in the intellect department. Our president speaks to us like we're ten years old and, when he does speak, he needs to give sad little examples so we understand all those big words like debt and default.

Our education system is to blame. We could change the system and create a better education for our children and fix the decline of our intellect in one generation but we won't because it's more important to focus on anything but our future.

reply to post by Crakeur


Of course we can make a better education system. And of course its to blame. CHarlotte Iserbyt has been saying it for almost 30 years. Education took a massive downturn in the 80's. Now you know why.

Crakeur

Witness2008


What parts of the population do you see as the laziest?

Most of them.

The least lazy are the illegal immigrants, but, sadly, we can't count them.


And, no, I'm not kidding.

But this is not about the lazy americans, it's the dumb ones and we are, sadly, lacking in the intellect department. Our president speaks to us like we're ten years old and, when he does speak, he needs to give sad little examples so we understand all those big words like debt and default.

Our education system is to blame. We could change the system and create a better education for our children and fix the decline of our intellect in one generation but we won't because it's more important to focus on anything but our future.

57% of the illegal population here collect some type of welfare. Is it due to laziness? Who knows. I live in Texas where the migrant population has decided to not learn the English language and have opted for forcing the rest of us to pay for that particular laziness.

I am curious as to your definition of laziness. I know the thread is about how much institutionalized knowledge we retain as a country, so perhaps you could define better what makes us smart or not so smart. And who has set the smart standard?

The drop outs have figured out the problems in our education system.

reply to post by Advantage


LOL, rule 1 about someone quoting an IQ number: they are full of it entirely. Enjoy talking to someone's ego.

I am a believer in "multiple intelligences", as I am sure you are at least familiar with Gardner's work.

I am someone who likely would score fairly well on Linguistic Intelligence, depending what is measured (i speak "1.5" languages....Spanish isn't the best in the world for me). I would do poor in logical problem solving (i get frustrated and say screw it).

I think it is a more reasonable way to measure individuals if that is desired. And it is a constructive measurement. There truly is something in saying that Michael Jorden was a "Kinesthetic Genius", and acknowledging ones ability to induce greater control of bodily movements to achieve their goal. Even if he is a mathematical dullard (I have no idea if he is or not, but suspect as a gambler he is pretty sharp).

Anyway....I think the OP more references people just not trying, not people without the capacity. People have never become accustomed to trying. I process expense reports, and even with my excel template, they still screw it up. I was once literally shocked that not a single employee out of almost 50 in a former place I ran could calculate their own time for payroll. Not that they needed to, but the way they did the math.....I just don't know how you could not calculate your own paycheck. That was lesson 101 for me and every person I knew at 15.

reply to post by Witness2008


I can't speak for other states, or locations, other than my knowledge of the school system I grew up in, which was excellent, and the NYC school system, not so great.

My high school was a top ten public high school while I was there but that was more than 25 years ago and I know it's gone down hill since then.

I currently have 2 kids in 2 different NYC public schools and they are polar opposites. My son's school is incredible. A nurturing environment with incredible teachers and an amazing facility. My daughter's elementary school (she's in middle now) was horrible. Great education thru 4th grade but the environment was cold, the building was run down and dreary. The principal, who is responsible for the operations, cared more for her bottom line and financial spending than the kids. There was a rampant lice issue that was ignored, even when some of us offered to pay for the school to be checked and cleaned. My daughter's 5th grade teacher left early in the first semester for maternity leave and was replaced with a social studies teacher. Nice woman, a bit nutty but she loved the kids. Problem was, she wasn't a 5th grade teacher. My daughter was in a gifted program. These kids were the so called cream of the crop in the school. Guess what, they all scored poorly on the year end exams and most of the kids are behind in math as a result of their 5th grade teacher focusing on history and social studies and nothing else. I'm thrilled that my daughter knows as much as she does about american history, the revolution, abolishing slavery etc but it would be nice if I didn't have to spend an hour working on her math homework every night. Prior to this year, she aced all things math.

the school failed her in 5th grade and this is a good school, in a good area.

I have friends who teach in other schools and they've resorted to self defense classes in their spare time, for their safety. They say that the schools don't care about the kids at all. It's sad and it needs to be fixed.

Every week there's a news item about one school or another where the administration cooked the books to doctor the test scores or they were arrested for some impropriety or other.


It's a disgrace and we all suffer from this in the end. We're creating unemployable young adults in a world of shrinking employment.

US adults are dumber than the average human

I am having some trubble grasping the topic, be back after doing some resirch

* The education system in the US *is* a joke even when I myself never attended school in the US, thanks god.

I remember how shocked I was as a child to find out that in the US they have "multiple choice tests" which looked incredible, incredible easy compared to school tests in higher education in Europe. We never had "multiple choice tests". School tests TODAY still give me nightmares.

* In the US, education costs money. I am still and always utterly disturbed hearing terms such as "student loans" etc. and how students in the US are basically already hopelessly indebted once they leave school. Your attendance in a "good school" is made possible based on WHETHER YOUR PARENTS CAN AFFORD IT (seriously, can it get more bizarre?) or whether you were one of the lucky ones to get a stipend (sponsorhip). If you don't have the money, "good" schools (better education, better job etc.) is out of your reach. MOSTLY.

* In the US, the average person WORKS *a lot* more as compared to other countries. This means things like holidays (which are extremely scarce in the US) but also average off-times from work like vacation etc. Not only are there less free days, daily work hours etc. may also be higher.

The result is that Americans simply have less "free time" to ponder about things like politics, philosophy etc. because they are extremely occupied with work.

The social system likewise makes it that people, say in EU, may be longer unemployed without facing the hardships as in the US. ("Work at McDonalds if you don't find a job!"). This also means that people in other countries have more time to "think about" all-kinds of stuff where a normal US American will not find the time to do so. (Eg socializing with others etc.)

* Due to the geographical nature of Europe with countless bordering nations, we are naturally more involved with what goes on elsewhere. Our news are full with reports of conflicts and stuff from other countries. "Demonstrations in Aserbaidjan" etc.. This obviously means that we "learn" more what happens in other countries etc....those things are not of interest in the US. Which, on the other hands is understandable since the US is big enough and has its own share of issues. (I remember in the US I perceived it in-fact as EXTREMELY irrelevant what happened back in Europe

* Media EVERYWHERE is already pretty much dumbed down but in the US specifically. News or your typical 45mins documentary are basically always an EXTREMELY simplified overview which mostly only covers whatever subjects on the surface, BARELY. Media don't aim to educate (anymore?) but aim to make money by entertaining. 99 cable channels don't change that. Go watch a typical docu on whatever topic and then see how incredible lacking it is when you have the desire to really want to know more.

* Most media but also news are EMOTIONALLY motivated. "Facts" or "the truth" are not as important as a creating an emotional impact to get higher quotes. "A good story" is if a journalist gets lots of tears and emotions in front of the camera. This is the most important thing before anything else.

It's not just the educational system responsible for the dumbing down of Americans, though they share the majority of the blame. Americans as a culture don't value teachers or education. We value strength, size and violence over intellectual pursuits. Athletic departments prosper while programs devoted to intellectual disciplines struggle for the educational dollar. Is it any wonder that the Asians are kicking our ass in technology and innovation.
Want to prosper in the coming global economic shake up? Learn to speak Chinese!


www.theatlanticcities.com...


We have met the enemy and he is us....pogo

The people have placed their personal responsibility into a limited liability corporation that, as long as it then provides them welfare, services, and benefits, the people no longer care how evil and seditious government becomes.
The people have turned a blind eye to reality; now living in a televised and media driven simulation of humanity. And the land and its lifeforms suffer for this ignorance and lack of knowledge.

And now for a current glimpse into the future of how you too will be ignored, forgotten and passively spoken about without action or consequence in the very near future for the common good…

We are cursed with this foreshadowing even now.

America’s so-called “national treasure”.
The history of the removal of native American Indians from the territories sought by the corporation of the United States, and of the imprisonment of those native peoples on what government calls “reservations”.

There is no escaping the fact that this history of murder and harm was done by the people, for the people, by government. This is our bloody legacy of justified intolerance and genocide.

They say our feds are shut down but still take our money with fed taxs
So yes, us common sense folks are waiting for ‘something’ to happen, for something to give to the first intake of truly fresh air. we the people need to keep the door shut hey Mr Obama I bet he still has his meals cooked by his chef & he still has his fed home land security

WhiteAlice

You're welcome! I hope that the little defense related bits on education is an eye opener for some. A lot of times when we think of our schools, we visualize kind of ditzy and awkward teachers who often times seem to try too hard to be cool for students. What we don't realize is how much research gets poured into what those ditzy and most of the time well meaning teachers do. I don't blame the teachers. In fact, I used to do volunteer work for a school so I can pretty safely say that most teachers become teachers for the right reasons. Instead, I lay the blame on educational psychology.

in the name of educational psychology, hypnosis has been used as have drugs. EMG biofeedback, fMRIs, and god only knows what else that I didn't find. It's left a scorch mark across my heart that I fear is permanent at this point. What has been seen can never be unseen.

I was given a chatbot to play with through my specialized education program. Her name was Eliza and she was one hell of a "toy": nlp-addiction.com...

Dakota (Sioux for "s'up?")

That was some facinating stuff you added.
Still going through some of it but I really loved the pdf on "pacifist barganing tactics".
Gonna have to start following more of your posts.

-Amitaba-

i make my own luck and hope everyoee iz ok, gimee my mcrib plz.