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Krazysh0t
reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic
That is a gross misreading of this thread. No one is suggesting you only have two choices for faith.
I identify as a secular humanist.
They categorize themselves in one of three ways. Religious Humanism, in the tradition of the earliest Humanist organizations in the UK and US, attempts to fulfill the traditional social role of religion.[20] Secular humanism considers all forms of religion, including religious Humanism, to be superseded.[21] In order to sidestep disagreements between these two factions, recent Humanist proclamations define Humanism as a "life stance"; proponents of this view making up the third faction. All three types of Humanism (and all three of the American Humanist Association's manifestos) reject deference to supernatural beliefs; promoting the practical, methodological naturalism of science, but also going further and supporting the philosophical stance of metaphysical naturalism.[22] The result is an approach to issues in a secular way. Humanism addresses ethics without reference to the supernatural as well, attesting that ethics is a human enterprise (see naturalistic ethics).[1][2][3]
Humanism is compatible with atheism[25] and agnosticism,[26] but being atheist or agnostic does not, itself, make one a Humanist. Nevertheless, humanism is diametrically opposed to state atheism.[27][28] According to Paul Kurtz, considered by some to be the founder of the American secular humanist movement,[29] one of the differences between Marxist-Leninist atheists and humanists is the latter's commitment to "human freedom and democracy" while stating that the militant atheism of the Soviet Union consistently violated basic human rights.[30] Kurtz also stated that the "defense of religious liberty is as precious to the humanist as are the rights of the believers".[30] Greg M. Epstein states that, "modern, organized Humanism began, in the minds of its founders, as nothing more nor less than a religion without a God".
sk0rpi0n
op... That is simply a symptom of a religion in decline. Religion is simply incompatible with an atheist/secular way of life.... And vice versa. It would be delusional of a christian to claim he is at peace with an atheistic society that has laws in place to protect ones ''right'' to insult God, the prophets and Jesus (packaged as 'free speech'). when godlessness oversaturates a society, the majority religion begins to crumble... Which is why even religious clergy begin to lose faith. When the godless are paraded as heroes and adored by the masses, even the religious begin to doubt their faith. As for atheism being on the rise, it does not neccesarily signal the beginning of an enlightenment or scientific progress. For example - the junk that passes off as 'entertainment' are the direct results of a society without religion.
godlover25
reply to post by Grimpachi
The Roman Empire tried and tried and tried to stamp out the "horrid Christian blasphemous religion" for 3 centuries, then Christ Jesus converted the Emperor himself and he made Christianity the official state religion and Christianity took off from a small sect of Judaism with a couple million followers to the worlds top religion with tens/hundreds of millions of followers in a couple centuries....
Don't worry, God will always have the last say in things,
Just wait, the Parousia is coming, though it lingers, wait for it....
Habakkuk 2:2 Then the Lord answered me and said:
“Write the vision
And make it plain on tablets,
That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time;
But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.
Though it tarries, wait for it;
Because it will surely come,
It will not tarry.
4 “Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.
Also, a warning to the corrupt priests who are basically "wolves in sheeps clothing" pasturing a flock that they are not worthy to shepherd;
Malachi 2:2 “And now, O priests, this commandment is for you.
2 If you will not hear,
And if you will not take it to heart,
To give glory to My name,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“I will send a curse upon you,
And I will curse your blessings.
Yes, I have cursed them already,
Because you do not take it to heart.
and to the rest of the world:
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
14 Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.
and last but not least;
Rev 22:6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
God bless
If they realized that what they were teaching were 'lies', then why are they living a lie? How about a career change? Or are they too comfortable as phoney pastors to consider one?
wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
Which is why even religious clergy begin to lose faith.
No, that's not why. It's because they realize after so long that what they are teaching is all a lie....
TheEthicalSkeptic
Gosh, our only two options are to be fundamentalist Christians or nihilist atheists. I never knew the choice was so simple!!
Which one shall I be when I grow up?
Ohhh this is a puzzler.
then why are they living a lie? How about a career change? Or are they too comfortable as phoney pastors to consider one?
www.clergyproject.org...
April 28, 2013 Listen to interview
"The Exit Ramp" CBC Radio Two Year Follow-up Interview with 'Adam'
We’ve heard a lot of stories on this programme over the years. Very few have been as memorable as the one told by a man whose real name we can’t use and whose real voice you’ve never heard. Adam is an evangelical pastor who doesn’t believe in God. The last time we spoke to him, he felt he was in an impossible position.
Adam is now part of The Clergy Project, an online support group for active and former clergy who no longer believe in God. He was recently awarded the group’s first Employment Transition Assistance Grant. Adam called us on a pay phone somewhere in the southern United States.
Jerry Dewitt
Jerry DeWitt is an Author, Public Speaker and Secular minister which has made the major news-outlets numerous times in his two short years of activism. Jerry holds the distinction of being the first The Clergy Project active male pastor who came out as an atheist. DeWitt's Christian ministry began at age seventeen. He evangelized the United States and assisted in three Pentecostal churches. Later he held the pastorate of two fundamentalist congregations. After more than twenty-five years of ministry he realized he had become an Atheist.
Currently Jerry is engaged in two projects. First, building a Secular "church" community in Lake Charles Louisiana named Community Mission Chapel and second, touring with his memoir 'Hope After Faith', which was released in June 2013 by Da Capo Press. He also sits on the Board of Directors of both The Clergy Project and The Foundation Beyond Belief. Jerry DeWitt has one son and still lives in rural Louisiana.
The Clergy Project
The Clergy Project is a confidential online community for active and former clergy who do not hold supernatural beliefs. The Clergy Project launched on March 21st, 2011.
Currently, the community's 515 plus members use it to network and discuss what it's like being an unbelieving leader in a religious community.
The Clergy Project’s goal is to support members as they move beyond faith. Members freely discuss issues related to their transition from believer to unbeliever including:
Wrestling with intellectual, ethical, philosophical and theological issues
Coping with cognitive dissonance
Addressing feelings of being stuck and fearing the future
Looking for new careers
Telling their families
Sharing useful resources
Living as a nonbeliever with religious spouses and family
Using humor to soften the pain
Finding a way out of the ministry
Adjusting to life after the ministry
I think they are going through the motions and yet their heart isn't in it. At a certain point in life you are kind of stuck in the job you are in. If you simply 'quit' and don't have a backup job to go to, then you are homeless and unemployed. These folks are in jobs like anyone else ... trained for a specific job ... all their eggs in one basket.
I've heard this man speak. He was living in a small town, and was pretty much ex-communicated by THE ENTIRE population when he came clean.
MarioOnTheFly
But an important question for the believers out there...
is it ok for the pastor to performs service to it's flock, without actually believing in what he preaches ?? Since the entire religious busyness is founded on the unquestionable belief in God
That is highly hypocritical from where I come from.
GoldenVoyager
Seems to me they need a new job! Much like a heterosexual doing homosexual porn. The fit is just wrong.
but to have real integrity, wouldn't they owe their 'flock' an explanation? I would think that's the honorable thing to do.
Following this line of thought leads me to believe that many of the Catholic Church leaders who presided over things such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Jewish segregation, excess corruption, and more were themselves atheists. They most likely didn't believe the stuff they were preaching because they most certainly didn't practice it.
MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Krazysh0t
Following this line of thought leads me to believe that many of the Catholic Church leaders who presided over things such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Jewish segregation, excess corruption, and more were themselves atheists. They most likely didn't believe the stuff they were preaching because they most certainly didn't practice it.
Agreed. I wonder how many of the higher ups in the hierarchy today...like bishops or cardinals or whatever...are really non believers in chosen religion...but the draw of power and wealth is too sweet to care about personal convictions.
godlover25
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
LoL,
I know my friend, I wasn't referring to our current times and ages, I was referring to the first couple centuries A.D.
And actually now-a-days it's about 2.2 billion, and growing
The Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father God Almighty and the Holy Spirit be with you all!
Amen