Cleaning up some anti GMO disinformation that has been littering the internet

reply to post by Hollie


I understand your concern. However, your candid crusade is perceived in a rather different light by a lot of people here. I understand that some who believe that Monsanto should cease to exist do lie to advance their cause, and that makes you want to undo those lies.

Still, your efforts encourage people to actually buy seeds from companies owned by Monsanto giving Monsanto more money and ability to advance their bigger goal.

Is this what you want?

Hollie
It is very disheartening to see so many concerned gardeners that are clueless, and it seems like the majority of these people believe every anti-GMO meme and article posted on the internet. ...

Is there any real surprise that ignorance is peppered through the topic all the way from "con" to "pro?"

Not to misdirect the sentiment, I tend to disagree with much of what you are saying... but certainly not everything.

The marketing and "propagation" of the now named "anti-GMO" meme is, in my opinion, actually a function of co-opted social force, as most memes are. Those who 'use' the theater of consensus to promote their 'picture' of reality craft their approach carefully.. so much so that it often behooves one side to cast it's own opposition... replete with misinformation and tom-foolery ... just so they can shoot it down.

Unfortunately, some of what you have offered falls into that category.

This flat assertion, for example:

GMO seeds are NOT available to the general public!

Is both technically and factually incorrect - unless you believe that farmers are not members of the 'general public.' A more correct version of your assertion is...

GMO seeds are only available to pre-qualified farmers

Within context, the reality is that if you are to use seeds which bear the patent protection Pfizer Monsanto enjoys, you must do so based upon an agreement with them. That their contract terms and financial vehicles effect base exploitation of their 'consumers' (read debt serfs) is largely beside the point of the meme. It has nothing to do with the science or the actual claims Monsanto has made regarding their product.

Confusing the grotesqueries of modern corporate culture with the product itself will always chaff my sensibilities as well...

There are two elements of story behind the alleged "bad" PR of this corporate construct and the corporatocracy itself.

One is the product, the other is the producer of said product. But I don't want to avoid addressing some things which I need convincing on...

I do firmly support your observation regarding the disingenuous use of the term "non-GMO" to increase sales potential. It is however almost completely pervasive in the business of a) telling people "what they want", and b) making subscribing to the advertising into belonging in the 'hip' new culture. But you support this observation with some things I think are incorrect.

... All poultry and pork are hormone free so there is no need to label it as such

Their are many industry tactics to 'get away' with advertising things like "anti-biotic free" poultry. (while not fed antibiotics... the eggs are injected with them before hatching) and other such claims like "Hormone free" also fall into that category. The reality is that everything can claim to be anything .... as long as the product is not tested, and/or the "tester" is a political appointee from the industry.

Within this "kind" of thing lies the behemoth GMO class of "products" (their powerfully protected "trade secrets" make government classification seem a joke.)

Every paid person seems very willing to affirm the miraculous claims of the companies producing and "leasing" these products.... but few arguments can be made to explain the billions lost in overseas markets... the suicides... and the wreckage of the hapless consumers that fell to their marketing scheme.

Further evidence can be inferred from the massive amounts of capital Monsanto expended to purchase up seed wholesale outfits and distributors. The legal maneuver that established that only Monsanto has the necessary "expertise" to properly evaluate their product performance is but "the icing on the cake."

The confusion regarding who is and isn't "part" of Monsanto is largely an academic exercise in futility. Corporations are largely anonymous societies... and who owns or is owned by who is precisely as inconclusive as it is designed to be.

Meanwhile, it’s a violation to even provide GMO seeds to non-commercial growers or seed companies without licensing, inspections, contracts, and other regulations.

To do so would be theft. We are not talking about anything other than "Only the company can own GMO seeds" - the seeds are "leased" to the consumers the producers choose and designate as "qualified." If we go down the road of "who is qualified" it is not enough just to be a "commercial farmer".... its only certain qualified farmers (hint: it has to do with financing... ahem.)

Now, please note that although we disagree, I firmly respect your position.. but this comment evoked a chuckle from me... because it speaks to a similar "belief" or "meme." This one is particularly nasty, in that it is as pervasive those you point out.

This is because Monsanto spends 2.7 million dollars per day to research and develop disease and herbicide resistant, as well as high yield GMO commodity crops in order to generate billions in profits.

On the face of it, it seems an Olympian stretch to claim that Monsanto's Research division actually spends $985,500,000.00 annually on research.

The meme of research costs needs to be cleansed of the nonsense which the corporatocracy promotes as justification for price gouging. Having had intimate dealings with all manner of extremely 'costly' research, I can assure you that a clinical analysis of the racket would reveal heartbreaking book-cooking games for which some legal and accounting firms are considered 'heroic' in the "research" community. Monsanto is no exception to this.

GMO seed is a one season grow-out ONLY

This is a great way to describe 'self-killing' organisms and the side note that it would not be 'lucrative' otherwise ignores the idea that feeding people is their self-described "higher purpose."

The finite distribution model they claim to employ is shattered by the regular appearance of GMO-patented DNA in the wild. The 'grey-area' of hybridization is something that always seems to work in favor of the "producer' of this infectious product. It's propagation is in the hands of the environment, not the corporation and its business model.

I agree GMO seeds are only profitable for the high commodity markets - but of course, that is true for yesterday... not tomorrow.

Unless you plant loads of your ornamental or sweet corn out in the open while living in the same hood that's growing 100 acres of Genuty SmartStax RIB, then your chances of obtaining GMO seeds are very very slim.

So if I were a small-to-midsize farming concern, not under any financial control or burden from Monsanto or her affiliates, it would be "my problem" as to where they grow their corn? I suppose I should "move my farm" if that presents a problem? Or change my crop? Really?

I don't accuse you of lying, and I think that there's enough ignorance, both innocent and malicious, to go around. Such harsh characterization is unnecessary.

I agree that science - real science - should be brought to bear.... but it seems not to be in the cards as long as we accept that Mosanto (or their parent company Pfizer) and their UN sycophants are at all interested in the well-being of the communities they prey upon.

Thank you for a great thread idea. And please, where I am wrong... correct me.

This company has sunk MILLIONS into not even having the crap they're selling you in supermarkets LABELED.
Why on gods green earth would they label if their seeds were GMO.
Did they label agent orange, WILL KILL EVEN YOUR CHILDRENS CHILDREN.

Please. Defending Monsanto in any way shape or form, from "misinformation", is like defending Hitler and saying he was just this poor misunderstood baby.

I guarantee, if seeds they sell to the public were spot checked they will be GMO.
Corn tomatoes soy strawberries.
So.... people can preach, but anyone who knows what this company is really all about, won't ever buy into it.
Go figure....

Phage
reply to post by Bone75

 

In the labeling debate, non-GMO farmers aren't allowed to label their products as GMO-FREE because there is no testing method available to substantiate their claim.

The OP is talking about seeds as you directly quoted. Not products containing GM materials.

www.burpee.com...
www.rareseeds.com...

I am well aware of what we are talking about here, and since I participated in your labeling thread, I'm sure that you are well aware of what I'm asking. If farmers can't prove their fruits and vegetables are GMO-FREE, then how can seed companies do it?

If anything OP was trying to help the anti GMO folks. This thread is embarrassing what with all the shill innuendo and people either not reading or not understanding the point the OP was making.

Many of the claims I've seen floating around are ridiculous, but if questioned you get swamped with the same nonsense prevalent in this thread.

You can be highly critical of something without believing everything that is also critical. Take the UFO thing. If you believe every video on YouTube you are hurting your cause more than helping by propagating obvious lies that will then be associated with the more serious folks that don't fall for frisbees on string.

reply to post by Hollie


World Famine . He who Controls the Staves of Life , Controls the World . It's not Nice to Fool with Mother Nature considering She dosen't give it to us for a Price.......


i297.photobucket.com...

PtolemyII
*coughs*
No, not at all, Monsanto just owns all the seed companies in the USA, and they're so so so honest.
Their seeds have been contaminating crops and are planted in places they should be, *somehow*, but poor poor Monsanto is misunderstood.
Theyre killing our bees, covering it up, but they want to help us.
They won't feed their own families what they want to force us to eat, but they're trying keep us all fed.
Bill Gates has hoarded all the heirloom seeds they have made it illegal for farmers to keep, or go to jail, but they're being completely honest with us. It's all for our own Gggooooood...
They would never ever..... Lie.
No no no, not poor misunderstood Monsanto.

Hey, I have this bridge. It's in Brooklyn, wanna buy it? Cheap.... Few dent and dings, but it'sa fixer upper.

Are you actually being serious here? I don't understand what you are putting out.

Domo1
If anything OP was trying to help the anti GMO folks. This thread is embarrassing what with all the shill innuendo and people either not reading or not understanding the point the OP was making.

Many of the claims I've seen floating around are ridiculous, but if questioned you get swamped with the same nonsense prevalent in this thread.

You can be highly critical of something without believing everything that is also critical. Take the UFO thing. If you believe every video on YouTube you are hurting your cause more than helping by propagating obvious lies that will then be associated with the more serious folks that don't fall for frisbees on string.

Thank you! Finally

bitsforbytes
reply to post by Hollie

 

Still, your efforts encourage people to actually buy seeds from companies owned by Monsanto giving Monsanto more money and ability to advance their bigger goal.

Is this what you want?

That is NOT my effort at all. If you want to avoid growing seeds that are sold by bioengineering companies, you can avoid Seminis, Syngenta, etc. A grower will literally have to contact the seed company to see where they are getting their hybrid seeds from. Some seed companies publish this on their site. But do not get confused with the Safe Pledge. The Safe Pledge is only a pledge that a seed company is not selling GMO. Well no seed company is selling GMO lol. However, a lot of those seed companies get their seeds from Seminis and the like.

The goal of the post is to make people realize that seeds are simply not available to throw in a garden patch.

reply to post by Bone75


I explained in the OP why. Monsanto has a control program in place. You grow their seed and sell it, you will be taken for a lot of money in lawsuits. Monsanto actually has seed police. Do you think Monsanto is gonna spend billions to engineer a pepper seed so that you can grow it in your garden year after year? How does that benefit Monsanto? And speaking of labeling, why do seed companies sell their seeds with the "non-GMO" label if there is no way to test it?

reply to post by PtolemyII


Godwin's Law took longer than I thought, but there it is, page 4.

I didn't take the OP as defending Monsanto. Saying that some of the things being claimed are untrue in no way means the OP was attempting to paint them as innocent little corporate kittens.

No idea if OP is right or not, on any of the things claimed. Even if everything said was incorrect, that doesn't give people carte blanche to start up with the accusations.

The thread was about buying seeds for the everyday consumer. It was not about Monsanto's crimes.

I wasn't aware that Monsanto didn't really sell seeds to the average gardener. I was also unaware of the seed subsidiaries Monsanto is involved with. That's what should be discussed here. OP was dispelling a perceived myth (right or wrong, still need to look in to it).

reply to post by Hollie


Disinformation.

People have been completely fooled into thinking money has a value It is used to control you and if you cannot see that then you are a fool the main criminal family on this planet the rothschilds own 95% of the worlds money, they print it meaning they know it has no value.

80% of the seeds on this planet are gm, there is no organic food

To be honest though I think most of the population deserve to live in this poisoned world and live there lives in fear.

The majority of the farms are now owned by some of the lowest forms of life in this universe George Soros and Joe Lewis. Just have a look at maggie thatchers jewish government who illegally held the interest rates too high then soros and lewis bet on the pound falling taking billions of pounds away from the british people and nearly bankrupting the country.

The problem is our governments are completely corrupt and blackmailed and what do the military do, nothing.

reply to post by Domo1


Well, it's not just Monsanto that owns vegetable seed companies. Syngenta, (a GMO commodity crop developer) also sells vegetable and flower seed to the retail seed companies. Johnny seeds, American Seed, Burpee, and other notable companies buy their hybrids from these guys. Here is a search tool on their site to see their retailers.

www.syngentaflowers.com...

reply to post by jinni73


What the hell Jinni? Did you read the OP? Or did you mean to post your comment in the rant section? LOLOL

If what you say is correct then I would like to ask why my children's basil did not self seed?

We purchased a children's growing pack of seeds, in this pack was tomato, basil and capsicum seeds. We planted the basil and capsicums, no capsicums came to be but the basil did wonderfully. Here in Aus we have just come through Winter & a friend of mines basil self seeded so I left our basil to do the same. She had new sprouts showing just a few weeks into Winter (she also only lives a few streets from our house) & I have just pulled ours out as it just went black & died. We had lots of flowers on ours. So were are the seeds?

Domo1
reply to post by PtolemyII

 

The thread was about buying seeds for the everyday consumer. It was not about Monsanto's crimes.

Ok. I want to buy some canola seed not produced by Monsanto or any other biotech company. I live in a rural community in western Canada surrounded by round-up ready fields. Where do I plant them? When a wind storm blows through and Monsanto seed ends up on my garden, what do I say to the SEED POLICE? Will I ever be able to grow natural seed once Monsanto's infects my garden?

Hollie
  And speaking of labeling, why do seed companies sell their seeds with the "non-GMO" label if there is no way to test it?

That's exactly what I'm getting at! The FDA won't allow GMO-FREE labels in grocery stores because allegedly there is no testing method available to prove their claim. Are you suggesting there is a reliable testing method for seeds, but none for foods?

If what you're saying is true, then the Monsanto controlled FDA is full of crap!

reply to post by Bone75

Are you suggesting there is a reliable testing method for seeds, but none for foods?

The FDA does not regulate seed but there is a difference between a product having GM material in it and seeds. With seeds, the direct "parents" are known and seeds can be tested because the GM DNA is intact. With food products the situation becomes more complicated because it means assuring that in every step of the food chain the ingredients are tracked and kept segregated from GM materials. Not a trivial matter when millions upon millions of tons of grain are being talked about. The best that can be done is to certify that less than 1% of a product is GM.
www.nongmoproject.org...

But since you missed the point of the OP anyway, that doesn't really matter to you.

reply to post by MALBOSIA

Ok. I want to buy some canola seed not produced by Monsanto or any other biotech company. I live in a rural community in western Canada surrounded by round-up ready fields. Where do I plant them? When a wind storm blows through and Monsanto seed ends up on my garden, what do I say to the SEED POLICE? Will I ever be able to grow natural seed once Monsanto's infects my garden?

Again, that is not the point of the thread. The point was don't worry so much about the seeds you buy, Monsanto isn't selling them to people who plant gardens at home. The OP was trying to do everyone who is anti Monsanto a favor. I too have seen many a person concerned that any seeds they buy to plant themselves are GMO. Well, even the ones Monsanto sells to average people aren't. No where did the OP say you should buy seeds from companies that Monsanto owns. It was suggested that you avoid certain companies if you wished to boycott.

I don't know what you're supposed to do. That would fall under evils of Monsanto, and not what the thread was about, like what I said. You quoted it. I have some very serious concerns about Monsanto. My whole point here, and I believe the OP's as well, is that people who flock to threads and spew bile (Monsanto bought Blackwater, which was in this thread) are hurting themselves and worried for nothing.

How are you not getting the difference? OP said you can't just buy Monsanto seeds. Now you're on a different topic proving my point that the anti GMO crowd (of which I just may be a part of) is generally so vitriolic and self righteous they can't take even the smallest criticism designed to further their agenda.

Recognize your confirmation bias if you ever want to make a difference.

Maxmars

GMO seeds are only available to pre-qualified farmers

Eh. I kind of think everyone knows what the general public means. There are more "general public" than there are pre-qualified farmers.

Their are many industry tactics to 'get away' with advertising things like "anti-biotic free" poultry.

I said "hormone free", not "antibiotic free". There is no reason to stick hormones in poultry or pork.

Every paid person seems very willing to affirm the miraculous claims of the companies producing and "leasing" these products.... but few arguments can be made to explain the billions lost in overseas markets... the suicides... and the wreckage of the hapless consumers that fell to their marketing scheme.

Can you explain this a little more? Suicides?

Further evidence can be inferred from the massive amounts of capital Monsanto expended to purchase up seed wholesale outfits and distributors.

The majority of those seed producers are/were bioengineering commodity crops already. Monsanto only owns two vegetable seed distributors.

On the face of it, it seems an Olympian stretch to claim that Monsanto's Research division actually spends $985,500,000.00 annually on research.

I do not make this claim personally. That is what Monsanto says on their website. I couldn't really tell you where 2.7 million is spent without looking at their books. Please understand that I actually posted the source in the OP of this claim.

So if I were a small-to-midsize farming concern, not under any financial control or burden from Monsanto or her affiliates, it would be "my problem" as to where they grow their corn? I suppose I should "move my farm" if that presents a problem? Or change my crop? Really?

I don't think you are wrong and I would never suggest you do anything of the sort, but it is quite evident that I was giving an example of how to "possibly" obtain a GMO seed.

I don't accuse you of lying, and I think that there's enough ignorance, both innocent and malicious, to go around. Such harsh characterization is unnecessary.
Thank you for a great thread idea.

Thank you very much for participating in this thread with a sense of logic