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How Free Are You, Exactly?

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posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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All my life I've been told how free I was. How I lived in a free country. I was instructed to stand up in class every day, place my hand over my heart and repeat words 'I pledge allegiance', way before I even knew what those words meant.

As I grew up and realized it was brainwashing more than anything, certainly not voluntary as any pledge should be, I stopped mouthing the words and as my cohorts all reached a certain age, during a certain war, somehow these little shows of patriotism went by the wayside, at least in school.

So here's the question; what do you want to do, feel you should have a right to do, that you cannot do due to the laws of the nation?

I'll start: I'd like to grow any kind of plant in my backyard for whatever use I deem fit, whether it be brewing spirits, flavoring my food, changing the way my mind works momentarily, or reducing pain or disease symptoms, without first having to get the permission of a fickle and vindictive government.

I'd like to be able to start a business without filling out lots of forms and paying 'fees'.

I'd like to be able to earn money without being forced to pay taxes on my labor, lest I be harassed by the long arm of the IRS and possibly put in jail.

I'd like that my tax money not to be spent on things I don't approve of, like wholesale murder of inhabitants of other countries, or WMDs or the Pentagon, or useless government officials.

##SNIPPED##

I'd like to go about my day without worrying that I may be on the wrong side of millions of laws that I have no way of knowing about, without 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' being a reason to put me in a cage.

I'd like to be able to 'petition my government for redress of grievances' without needing a huge trust fund to pay for it, or friends in high places.

I'd like to be able to form a grand jury to investigate wrongdoing by certain government officials, without begging for frightened state Attorney Generals to do it, and waiting forever for justice.

I'd like to be able to actually buy land and a house without worrying about being thrown off it in my old age if I can't afford property taxes.

I'd like to build a house to my own standards, and not to those of 'code Nazis' who are more worried about maintaining the local status quo and neighboring property 'values' and not about innovation and the quite obvious possibility that sometimes, new ideas are good ideas.

Any additional thoughts, ATS'ers?
edit on Sun Oct 6 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: DRUGS Terms and Conditions of Use--Please Review



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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In today's America you are free to do exactly what you're told. Anyone that is deviating from the path of accepting American government as some sort of Roman light that illuminates the rest of the darkened world is branded a "fringe" right winger or domestic terrorist.

You can not own anything in America, even if you wanted to live peacefully away from the government off the grid, you can not, should you fail to pay a property tax, no matter how small, they will seize your land from you. You have only the illusion of freedom and no actual freedom, you can not truly own anything and every day, what few liberties (I call them that because they are government allowed liberties, not freedoms) are dwindling.



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by signalfire
 


How about just the basics a human being needs to live and survive????

Need fish to eat? You have to buy a license...

Want to hunt? Need to buy a license....

Want to grow your own food? You have to own property in which you have to pay taxes on until the day you die!

Your right! Whatever happened to that thing we used to call FREEDOM?????

EDIT

What is really sad??? As human beings all we need to survive, is food, water, and shelter! Look at what relying on the government has done to take those God given rights away from us.......
edit on 6-10-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by signalfire
 


I like all of your ideas and have a couple more.

I'd like to be able to do anything I want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I'd like to be able to get in my car and drive and not wonder if a psycho cop is going to damage me or worse because they're having a bad day.

I'd like to go on the internet and not worry the spies are logging everywhere I go and what I say.

Nice post there OP. Thumbs up!



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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All of the above^^^^

Also a free UNCONTROLLED internet.
and
Schools that EDUCATE!



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Believe me, OP, I *completely* understand where you are coming from.

Where I differ, isn't an attack, but an observation. If you want things like an established society, it is rare to come up with a way which will not be abused in which it truly does not involve you paying into it. State and local taxes go towards things like state parks, education system (for what it's worth, not that I am PRO at all on this case), police, fire departments, etc.

Does this mean that it isn't bloated with pork? Absolutely not. It IS highly bloated with pork.

I do think we need to seriously rethink our established society and it's rules. I personally am entirely libertarian. But, by and large, societies require that people fill certain roles. And almost always these roles must be paid for the person to do it, otherwise, why wouldn't they go to work for the highest bidder?

I would suggest focusing on things like

Personal liberty
transparency

But, for civil services, you have to pay into the kitty. Even the Greeks, their diplomats were supported 100% by the public (food, clothing, housing, etc) so they were not expected to work other than to do what they were asked to do, work for the society in their chosen role.

Now, you also addressed things like the "nazi home owners society" (I'm paraphrasing). I've lived in both governed (HOA) and non governed communities. Unfortunately, in the non governed communities, you end up with things like people letting their homes go un maintained to the point of being complete eye sores. I had a neighbor once who parked two ford f-150s, a motor home, and his powerboat on his front lawn. It wasn't a lawn, it was a parking space. Yards that go knee high with weeds and grass when you take the time to make yours look nice, etc.

I guess at the end of the day, it's a choice of two extremes. Either regulation to no end, or people allowed to do *anything* they want on their property. It's nice in theory, but, I have found that most people do not like this.

To this I see alternatives. Live outside of densely populated areas. My father wanted space to breathe. He moved us to Alaska. Wow, did we have room. He often stated he liked the ability to "take a dump on the front lawn and have no neighbors to complain about it". I get that. But, it takes common ground and compromise when you live among others.


- SN



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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And, just to add to the fire...


Wow, let's keep religion out of this. I do not need laws based on someone else's idea of what is morally correct because of their religious beliefs dictating what I can and can not do.

Abortion
prostitition
"drugs"
drinking
medical practices
"decency"


All of these things need simply be rethought as to their potential for doing damage to others. I cannot help but see them today as someone who had the position to make their personal sense of morals into law over others. That is shortsighted, IMHO.



- SN



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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SadistNocturne


And, just to add to the fire...


Wow, let's keep religion out of this. I do not need laws based on someone else's idea of what is morally correct because of their religious beliefs dictating what I can and can not do.

Abortion
prostitition
"drugs"
drinking
medical practices
"decency"


All of these things need simply be rethought as to their potential for doing damage to others. I cannot help but see them today as someone who had the position to make their personal sense of morals into law over others. That is shortsighted, IMHO.



- SN



When one's "freedoms" involve someone-else' rights or freedoms--as all of the above frequently do--then rules (or Laws) must be in place to prevent harm to one or the other party.
edit on 10/06/2013 by Tusks because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:26 PM
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Tusks

SadistNocturne
Abortion
prostitition
"drugs"
drinking
medical practices
"decency"



When your "freedoms" involve someone-else' rights or freedoms--as all of the above frequently do--then rules (or Laws) must be in place to prevent harm to one or the other party.



you so funny


Early term abortion is a decision that belongs to the biological parents of the "child". Beyond that, it is their relationship with whatever higher power you wish to pull out of your hat.

Prostitution is entirely between two willing adults. No pimps. No pushing anyone into it. Quite simply, if two will adults decide to engage in sexual activity whereupon monies or goods or services are exchanged in return, well, that is entirely between those two people. Oh, yeah, and that whole "higher power" thing too.

Drugs. Alcohol is ok for adults, but not marijuana. I'm not going to elaborate on this any further. If you actually NEED me to do so, you're not allowed into my treefort of a society. Sorry.

Drinking. See above.

Medical Practices. I firmly believe that the gov't and other people's impeding laws based off of some "higher power" pulled out of a hat impede what should simply be between me and my Dr. 'nuff said.

Decency. "Higher Power"...blah blah....insert antiquated morality diatribe here....blah blah.... Right. It is absolutely ridiculous that our bodies are such taboo. Unless I am mistaken, we all have one, right ? My bits are only foreign to the opposite gender. I think it is utter lunacy that a man can go topless, but a woman can't. To me, this smacks of a man's desire to own and control his property, his woman. Doesn't want others desiring what is clearly his. Well, guess what. We don't own one another.


Now, you might be thinking "But SN, what about the children? What about endangering others through your own actions?". Well, the core idea here is to be responsible and accountable for your own actions. That my freedom and liberty extends to the point that is clear of NOT encroaching onto anothers freedoms and liberties.

Can I shoot up heroin and then go driving? No, and this shouldn't be allowed. Can a child decide to engage in prostitution? No, and this shouldn't be allowed either.


- SN



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by SadistNocturne
 


See? You're already making exceptions and rules, And it's because of something you've already mentioned-- all these things involve the potential to harm others.



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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Tusks
reply to post by SadistNocturne
 


See? You're already making exceptions and rules, And it's because of something you've already mentioned-- all these things involve the potential to harm others.


You're good for a laugh, my friend. You truly are!!!!

I think I'm going to keep you around for a bit




- SN


(post by LewisStulePhD removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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LewisStulePhD

POST REMOVED BY STAFF


It's just such a shame that pinheads and folks with such morals as they're flowing out of their ears are making it a situation where our only option is to leave.

Let's take over. Revolution.


There, I said it. Party in my treefort. Tusks, you'd be a downer up there. And I'm not sure you could get up there, with your body shape and size and all. Sorry.


- SN
edit on Sun Oct 6 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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Seems folks sometimes get anarchy and freedoms confused.


For me, there are freedoms I dont have.. but I have more than some places. Problem is we are losing freedoms guaranteed to us. Personally I have no problem working within laws and rules, but we are being lawed and ruled to death. There actually IS a happy medium... a way to have great personal freedom and not run into chaos. The unfortunate part of all of this is that personal responsibility is on the downswing... so freedoms are dangerous to those who can not control themselves or take responsibility for their actions. Folks arent even expected to take responsibility anymore... for anything. Its a daily mantra of TODDI... the other dude done it.


I have to admit I AM bummed I cant have my basement operating room and simple surgery-n-suture mobile cart ( pulled by goats) I always dreamed of having until the zombie apocalypse begins... dammit.


(post by signalfire removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 07:58 PM
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Advantage
Seems folks sometimes get anarchy and freedoms confused.


If that is directed at me, I can guarantee you that the things I proposed are far from anarchy.

I am not saying there should not be laws. I am saying that the focus should be on liberty. I am saying that we should accept responsibility for our own actions. I am saying that our liberties do not (and should not) eclipse another's freedom and liberty by either impeding them of their own freedom or liberty or causing any damage or harm.

This is possible. It can be done once we shed archaic and simply outdated laws that reflect religious doctrine and morality. It can be, once we take control of the government, and make sure they realize that we are the ones that pay their bills, and they work FOR us.

If it is not directed at me, you obviously are reading things the way I am. That we can have these things *without* it being anarchy.


Have a great night!

-SN



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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i stuck my middle finger up to the law and goverment years ago and have not looked back .

now i do not work .
do not pay taxes .
grow all my food .
and then some
.
which gives me the free housing .
i do not claim any gov benefits that i would be entitled to .

if they bother me i will bother them big time .
and i can say i am pretty free to do what i want i aint no wage slave any more .


(post by SadistNocturne removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 08:05 PM
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geobro
i stuck my middle finger up to the law and goverment years ago and have not looked back .

now i do not work .
do not pay taxes .
grow all my food .
and then some
.
which gives me the free housing .
i do not claim any gov benefits that i would be entitled to .

if they bother me i will bother them big time .
and i can say i am pretty free to do what i want i aint no wage slave any more .



Good for you, my friend from Scotland.

But unfortunately, the EU is either on track or about to pass a law where only "authorized" seeds may be planted and harvested.

Are you prepared for that ?



- SN



posted on Oct, 6 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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I learned at an early age i didn't have the freedom of travel. Due to the location I lived, the only way for me to get anywhere, such as a store I would have to ride my bike on the freeway which was illegal, at least in California. There was no alternative route since you turned directly off the freeway onto our road. I did it anyways, but I got in trouble for it a few times.




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