Who started attacking christianity?

Originally posted by apw100

Originally posted by dr
Yes it fits. Did not Jesus whip the heathen out of His church? Did not Jesus kill the whole planet? Isn�t Jesus coming back on a white horse with blood up to the stirrups?

First of all, Jesus never said that he killed the whole planet. He never said that he is coming back on a white horse with blood up to the stirrups. Some crazy man(John) who had never met him said that.

Jesus is God not Gandhi.

No, but they both preached peace, forgiveness and compassion.

The term is the same term used to mean peace through strenth. The term was used in Jesus day to mean peace through strenth. It is a different term that is used in other places in the NT for peace.

No, the work "peacemaker" is only used once in the NT, and that is in Mathew 5:9. Also, the ancient Greek word that is used in the Mathew, "eirenopoios", does not mean "peace through strength", it means just what its translated as "peace maker".

arabic.biblestudytools.net...

They did not have hippies in Jesus day to interpet it this way. They had the terms that they knew. This term was used in the way I proved it was used. There was no concept of a hippie pacifist in Jesus day.

Jesus did not have to say he flooed the world. The Bible says He did. Jesus is God remember?

Look in Revelation for Jesus with the weapon in His hand and the blood! And who is the Judge that sends people to hell? Is this not Jesus? Gahndi wold never do that!

Jesus is not a pacifist, obviously.

Originally posted by Thinker
Jesus never liiked the money changers.
Which are the big banks of today.

He was not picifist toward them. That is the point. He did destroy the whole world though. He does send people to hell!

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Using the one time Jesus loss his temper and all he did was whip them. If he was part of God he could have turned them all into dust with a thought.

I dont know how you can compare turning over tables and whipping someone to advocating war. Did Jesus not heal a Roman guard that came to arrest him after one of his followers cut off his ear.

You are just taking one mistranslated word and trying to turn around everything Jesus taught

[edit on 15-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

What I am trying to show you guys is tht Jesus is not a pacifist as was stated. He is not!

How can Jesus be God when he called God father and was part human. God was not part human. Jesus was a part of God the son of God not God himself.

They are two seperate enities not on in them same. Jesus was created and born on earth God always was.

Well dr your proof is not impressive one single word peacemaker taken out of context Oh and he got mad once he was part human after all.

How could so many people have gotten it wrong Jesus was a warmonger

No, their is no hypocrisy there (although, yes, we are all sinners and hypocrites. Thank God we are saved, though), just an attempt to hate the Christian part of America, and in some warped way, blame the attacks on America on the Christians through blaming us for the necessary response.



Americans in their wars have killed millions of people around the world. You live in a dream world. I wonder what would happen if you were pissed? Would you go nuclear? Already done that, twice.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by wfsmoothy]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Well dr your proof is not impressive one single word peacemaker taken out of context

Oh and he got mad once he was part human after all.

How could so many people have gotten it wrong Jesus was a warmonger

I did not say Jesus is a warmonger. You just refuted yourself in that you accused me of taking something out of context then you did the same to me.

IF you ever get around to reading the book of the apocalypse you will see Jesus not so nice to those whom He cuts down with a big nasty blade.

You need to study the Bible and not just reference it now and then.


[edit on 15-11-2004 by dr]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
How can Jesus be God when he called God father and was part human. God was not part human. Jesus was a part of God the son of God not God himself.

They are two seperate enities not on in them same. Jesus was created and born on earth God always was.

I see I am arguing with someone who has not studied the Bible at all. I will heed Jesus words:

"..do not throw your pearls before swine..."

If you are closed minded then se ya later.

I have read REV. many times and he indeed comes back as a lion in the future not a lamb. But he is fighting the armies of the Anti-christ and the devil.

People werent dumb back then the concept of peace would not escape them. How do you know Jesus was even talking about earthly peacemakers?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I have read REV. many times and he indeed comes back as a lion in the future not a lamb. But he is fighting the armies of the Anti-christ and the devil.

People werent dumb back then the concept of peace would not escape them. How do you know Jesus was even talking about earthly peacemakers?

Then you admit Jesus is not a pacifist. A pacifist would not fight any army even if it were the Anti-Christs army.

This is my point that Jesus is not a pacifist. Any verse that gets that point across is enough for me.

I know He was talking about earthly peacemakers because of the Greek term, the times and the context. aLso the idea is relfected eslwhere in the BIble in Romans 13. ..for it (the governmentsof God) does not bear the sword for nothing

[edit on 15-11-2004 by dr]

Originally posted by dr


I see I am arguing with someone who has not studied the Bible at all. I will heed Jesus words:

"..do not throw your pearls before swine..."

If you are closed minded then se ya later.

Just because I do not interpret the bible the same way as you doesnt mean I havent studied it.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, fully God and fully human, two natures in one Person.

one in three and three in one, that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But you seem to have your own twisted view on the words of Jesus, In which he advocates peace through war. Yeah Im the one that didnt read the bible.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by dr


I see I am arguing with someone who has not studied the Bible at all. I will heed Jesus words:

"..do not throw your pearls before swine..."

If you are closed minded then se ya later.

Just because I do not interpret the bible the same way as you doesnt mean I havent studied it.

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, fully God and fully human, two natures in one Person.

one in three and three in one, that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But you seem to have your own twisted view on the words of Jesus, In which he advocates peace through war.

Yeah Im the one that didnt read the bible.

Right. Jesus is fully God. The same God that flooed the world. He is NOT a pacifist.

*AHEM*

About ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

Uh, Sahdow, your logic just came around and bit you in the arse. He was human because he got mad once? There are several occasions where God has become angry, so He is human?
Darn!

By the way, Christ is not God? Better go back and read more than just Revalatin, friend. You're missing quite a bit.

*I love it when the boomerang effect happens; especially with logic!*

Almost no one contributing to this thread, apparently.

Rather, what passes for discussion is a bunch of people saying they believe Jesus stood for this, or think Jesus stood for that -- or worst of all, that they know Jesus stood for what they believe in, when in fact they cannot possibly know.

I sincerely doubt that anyone here, including myself, really knows what Jesus actually said, or what Jesus actually stood for. Why bother, when we can each put words in his mouth instead?

What confuses me is why anyone would think anything Jesus said actually matters, when no one really knows what he said, and no writings of his are known to exist, and the "authoritative" text has been heavily edited and modified to agree with doctrine developed centuries after Jesus died.

Under these circumstances, the discussion assumes a creepy Weekend at Bernie's motif, with different people propping up Jesus and putting their words in his mouth.

The only person I am certain has no input in this dialog is Jesus. Instead, what we're left with is a bunch of people using Jesus as a ventriloquist's dummy.

Originally posted by dr


Right. Jesus is fully God. The same God that flooed the world. He is NOT a pacifist.

Jesus was in part god but not exactly the same.There were clear differences

1. God is All Knowing... but Jesus was not.

When speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36)


2. God is All-Powerful... but Jesus was not.

While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30)

3. God does not have a God... but Jesus did have a God.

God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)

4. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him... but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.

They are in part the same but not exactly the same.

www.iiie.net...

Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28,"My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me."

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
But you seem to have your own twisted view on the words of Jesus, In which he advocates peace through war.

I never said that. You need to pay attention.

Originally posted by dr

They did not have hippies in Jesus day to interpet it this way. They had the terms that they knew. This term was used in the way I proved it was used.

You never proved that it was used as you claim it was. You have provided no evidence at all.

There was no concept of a hippie pacifist in Jesus day.

Of course there was. Pacifism is an ancient concept. The word "pacifist" is based on the Roman word "pac", meaning "peace". And we have already talked about the greek word for pacifist...

Jesus did not have to say he flooed the world. The Bible says He did. Jesus is God remember?.

Technically, Jesus never claimed that he was God, only that he was the son of God. It wasnt until long after his death that the concept of the Holy Trinity came into existence.

Look in Revelation for Jesus with the weapon in His hand and the blood! And who is the Judge that sends people to hell? Is this not Jesus? Gahndi wold never do that!.

The book of Revelation has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. They were written after his death, most likely by someone who never knew him, and were completely unrelated to him

www.religioustolerance.org...

Jesus is not a pacifist, obviously.

No, Jesus was most obviously a pacifist.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by apw100]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by dr


Right. Jesus is fully God. The same God that flooed the world. He is NOT a pacifist.

Jesus was in part god but not exactly the same.There were clear differences

1. God is All Knowing... but Jesus was not.

When speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36)


2. God is All-Powerful... but Jesus was not.

While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30)

3. God does not have a God... but Jesus did have a God.

God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)

4. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him... but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.

They are in part the same but not exactly the same.

www.iiie.net...

Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28,"My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me."

I have deviated from the topic enough. Now to go into the subject of Jesus being God is even further from the topic.

I have shown plenty that Jesus was not a pacifist. You for sure have had plenty of chances to agree or deny it. Your own words confirm Jesus was not a pacifist so I will suffice to say you agree with me that Jesus was not a pacifist. So, I'll see ya later. I gota go.

Originally posted by dr


Christianity is not pasifistic. Jesus said that war for the sake of peace is good.

Not to keep quoting you but these are your words did you forget already?

. Jesus was fully God and fully human. And thats how they are different


[edit on 15-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]