Unusual North-American Artifacts.....

Archaeology in N. America, is victum of its own dogmas it would seem.....
These artifacts from all over, are definately pre Columbus....
Weve been storied todeath by the Smithy and cronies...and, much like the UFO coverup.....the historical coverup goes on apace......
Problems do arise when documented evidence doesnt agree with the official story....so they just bury the finds or ignore them.....
Check this short Video for some interesting "anomalous finds."...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by stirling

These artifacts from all over, are definately pre Columbus....

No. Fraudulent.
www.hal.state.mi.us...
www.hal.state.mi.us...

stirling
Archaeology in N. America, is victum of its own dogmas it would seem.....

Oh they have a few but not the Michigan relics, as the famous Phage noted, fakes

These artifacts from all over, are definately pre Columbus....

What you mean L'anse aux Meadows? Those and the Norse Penny are pre-columbian and non-native but I guess you didn't mean that did you? lol

...Yes the world as we know it would collapse if we found that some ancient civ had gotten to America, just like it collapsed when we found that the Norse had gotten here after the Inuits and mulitiple waves of people from Asia, the world also fell apart when Sumer was found, when Harappa was found, etc.....were did this crazy meme start where finding ancient civilizations would be black balled?

Um maybe by an ancient Mexican lake?
My bad for the fakery .....but there are pulenty of pre Columbus artifacts which indicate prior contact with both sides of the seas.....
Evidence for a trading nation straddling panama which traded on both coasts......all kinds of indications of technological achievements not admitted to by the mainstream....Thats a fact............................like the inca ball court in Az or NM...Perhaps the accepted migration from asia over the land bridge wasnt the only wave....
After all somebody did high grade millions of tons of copper from the site, and where did all those artfacts go?
Twould seem it was exported....
and what about the Giants with double rows of teeth?

reply to post by stirling

stirling
Um maybe by an ancient Mexican lake?
My bad for the fakery .....but there are pulenty of pre Columbus artifacts which indicate prior contact with both sides of the seas.....
Evidence for a trading nation straddling panama which traded on both coasts......all kinds of indications of technological achievements not admitted to by the mainstream....Thats a fact............................like the inca ball court in Az or NM...Perhaps the accepted migration from asia over the land bridge wasnt the only wave....

Howdy Stirling

There may have been contact between the continents and we know that ships from Asia can drift to the Pacific North West - the problem is that their is no definitive evidence that if anyone came that they left technology or made an impact on the local cultures. The ships from Asia would have contained fishermen who have a narrow specified type of skills which may have been of little use to the locals...who already knew how to fish.

After all somebody did high grade millions of tons of copper from the site, and where did all those artfacts go?
Twould seem it was exported....

Not really, what copper was used was used by locals there is no evidence that anyone would have gone to the effort to obtain copper from the great lakes area of North America when copper was easily available in both Europe and Asia. Despite what Coppens might imagine.

Unsure of what you are referring to about the ball court - why would that be pre-columbian?

reply to post by hknudzkknexnt


Oh my

A whole lot of wrong in that thing but one very funny part about 22:30 in the video is a claim of black slate 'carving' showing Noah's ark.............

reply to post by Hanslune


An exhibition of the Michigan relic fakes

stirling
After all somebody did high grade millions of tons of copper from the site, and where did all those artfacts go?
Twould seem it was exported....

Have a look at the following paper regarding Great Lakes copper... The State of Our Knowledge About Ancient Copper Mining in Michigan...

The figures are made up out of thin air and can be sneezed away. That's because no one has a means to measure any of these variables accurately or with any precision. All of these figures are built on ill-constructed estimates.

JohnnyCanuck

stirling
After all somebody did high grade millions of tons of copper from the site, and where did all those artfacts go?
Twould seem it was exported....

Have a look at the following paper regarding Great Lakes copper... The State of Our Knowledge About Ancient Copper Mining in Michigan...

The figures are made up out of thin air and can be sneezed away. That's because no one has a means to measure any of these variables accurately or with any precision. All of these figures are built on ill-constructed estimates.

Not just Michigan, parts of Canada etc. The amounts removed are enormous and I don't care what your name is or how smart, this is undeniable. Fact is no one knows where it went or who took it. It is known that all the known sources could not have fueled the European bronze age. Numbers don't add up. It came from here.

We also know the vikings were here and that Columbus never set foot here. But that is still the lie we teach our kids. Just like the lie of thanksgiving, it did not happen. We have their journals, why do we teach lies.

The Bot

dlbott

The amounts removed are enormous and I don't care what your name is or how smart, this is undeniable.

It is, well gosh I just denied it - unless you can show how the calculations were made and using what criteria and parameters.

Fact is no one knows where it went or who took it.

As we don't know the amount and copper has been found in use from that area in Americas that gives us one clue.

It is known that all the known sources could not have fueled the European bronze age. Numbers don't add up. It came from here.

How is that 'known'?

Can you tell me the amount of copper that was removed from Cyprus from 6,000 to 2,000 BCE?

If your contention is true explain how was the copper was removed and returned to Europe? Be detailed please - say start your alleged copper ship at the mouth of the St Lawrence after a long voyage from somewhere in Europe how does it get to the copper lands?

In Europe explain where it was smelted and where the fleet to do this harboured, which culture was running this massive operations (in your opinion)?

Why no sign of this archaeologically in the Americas?

We also know the vikings were here and that Columbus never set foot here. But that is still the lie we teach our kids.

What lie is that? The HS texts I've seen talk about the Norse being here before Columbus then his arrival in the Americas and his reports causing an upsurge of exploration to the continents.

reply to post by dlbott


I agree

.

reply to post by R0CR13


Are you serious? Why did you even bother to post? Just saying you agree is hardly worthy of a post. At least tell us why you agree.

While I have heard of evidence of copper being mined in the Great Lakes region, I have no way of knowing how much. I have never heard of evidence of that copper having made its way to Europe. I think there are tests that can be performed on a sample that will tell you what region a sample comes from, if you have a sample from that region to test against. Has any test like that been performed on European bronze or copper artifacts? It the bronze age was fueled by North American copper, it should be rather obvious, an undertaking of that size. The simple fact (as far as I know) is that no real, scientifically verifiable evidence of that has ever been found.

We can look at several of the myths and facts surrounding these claims:

1. Tons of copper mined in Michigan, particularly Isle Royale, resulting in "lost" quanities of copper.
This myth is proclaimed by several "alternative" writers, and is based on claims that ALOT of copper (some 1.5 billion tons) was mined by the lost Copper Culture. This "estimate" is based on alot of assumptions (such as an average pit depth of 30', which is simply NOT true) , and is totally unscientific and basically a number drawn out of a hat, not even really an educated guess. More likely estimates put this number much, much lower, and eliminates the "lost" copper.

2. The copper from Michigan and Europe is of the same purity.
It is difficult to examine the chemical formulas of 2 different samples of copper in detail, and smelted copper cannot be distinguished from a native copper's purity. This means that just b/c 2 samples of copper are the same purity, doesn't mean they come from the same place. Actually, to me it would mean 2 samples, one smelted one native, of the same purity ARE NOT from the same place, as a smelted sample should be more pure after smelting, shouldn't it be? (This is an assumption on my part, as I"m not totally familiar with the effects of smelting on a sample of copper. A purity test that was done as part of a television series, showed samples from Michigan and Europe having the same purity, though smelted copper from Europe could just as easily be smelted to 99.9% purity, so that proves nothing. Trace elements (germanium, arsenic, etc.) would have to have been the same to support this theory, and they simply didn't match.

3. There wasn't enough copper in Europe to account for all the copper used during the Bronze age.
Minerals that were exploitable for copper where found throughout Europe, such as Malachite mined at Rudna Glava (Serbia), Cabrierés (France) or Chinflón (Riotinto, Spain). The mines were exploited in pretty creative ways, and could result in great quantities of ore extraced. At Mount Gabriel, Ireland some 162.85 tons of copper is estimated to have been resulted. Smelted, that was about 146.56 tons (Jackson,1980). Cyprus is belived to have been a major supplier of copper to the Roman Empire.The name “copper” is probably derived from the Latin “aes Cyprium,” meaning “metal of Cyprus.”

4. Michigan was unknown to Ancient Europe.
I state this as a truth. There is no evidence of any ancient contact between North American copper extraction (by the Copper Culture, etc.) and ancient Europeans. 2 copper artifacts were discovered at L'Anse Aux Meadows, but metallurgical testing shown this copper to have been mined locally, probably by the Vikings that were there. While many Copper-Culture burial sites (and other indigenous native sites that traded with them contained copper artifacts as well) have been uncovered, including skeletal remains with copper artifacts, no physical evidence of European contact with this or other North American cultures has been found until after European exploration westward began. The Bronze age in Europe, of course, was over by this time.

Evidence of an extensive trade network that would have been required to get North American copper to Bronze Age Europe has simply never been found, either in North America or Europe. While not finding evidence of this doesn't prove it impossible, of course, it does promote the notion that it didn't take place, simply by lack of evidence. If Europeans were somehow finding their way to North America, and trading for copper or mining it themselves, SOMETHING would have been found, an European style bronze axe, or hammer, or something, anything, but nothing has been.

I think I have made my opinion on this rather obvious. Oh, and I actually have sources! Imagine that? I rarely see sources listed on this site, which kinda annoys me because I enjoy doing further research on a topic.

SOURCES:
[1] Review of America Unearthed

[2]Metalurgy during the Copper Age

[3] Wikipedia- Bronze Age

[4] Copper: An Ancient Metal-Dartmouth.Edu

[5]L'Anse Aux Meadows Metalurgy

[6] Copper Culture

[7] Exploration of North America

[8] State of Our Copper Culture Knowldge

reply to post by stirling


Ok this is from the other side of the pond at Rosslyn Chapel Scotland I admit to not being a farm boy so I can't tell the difference between corn or old or new world but I had heard folks say the above is native to the Americas yet it is found reproduced in stone in a temple in Scotland before Columbus if this is true wouldn't that go towards the issue of pre-Colombian contact by the Templars at-least,I am assuming anyone who knows their corns agree with the above pic.

Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas present theories on the origins of Freemasonry. In their controversial text, the two authors defend the theory that some carvings surrounding ogived windows are adored with a maize motif, a type of corn only found on the American Continent. According to them, the presence of corn-shaped sculptures, fifty years before Columbus discovered the New World, demonstrate that William Sinclair travelled to Americana before the Italian navigator.

www.atlasobscura.com...

reply to post by Spider879



Medieval scholars interpret these carvings as stylised depictions of wheat, strawberries or lilies.
*The more I look at it, the more I think it looks like a strawberry, with the green leaves on top.

Oxbrow, Mark; Robertson, Ian (2005). Rosslyn and the Grail. Edinburgh: Mainstream Publishing. ISBN 1-84596-076-9.

To me, it doesn't much look like corn anyways. And, living in Montana, I"ve seen a few ears.

Heres an interesting article on Rosslyn Chapel... Article


**BTW, It would help a lot if you had a picture dipping the surroundings of the carving, for more context. Knowing whats around the carving could help interpret its meaning.

JJRichey
reply to post by Spider879

 

Medieval scholars interpret these carvings as stylised depictions of wheat, strawberries or lilies.
*The more I look at it, the more I think it looks like a strawberry, with the green leaves on top.

Oxbrow, Mark; Robertson, Ian (2005). Rosslyn and the Grail. Edinburgh: Mainstream Publishing. ISBN 1-84596-076-9.

To me, it doesn't much look like corn anyways. And, living in Montana, I"ve seen a few ears.

Heres an interesting article on Rosslyn Chapel... Article


**BTW, It would help a lot if you had a picture dipping the surroundings of the carving, for more context. Knowing whats around the carving could help interpret its meaning.

edit on 30-9-2013 by JJRichey because: add something

edit on 30-9-2013 by JJRichey because: (no reason given)

Ok will differ to you on the corn, according to the article the Sinclairs were not Templars??..so where did this myth came from that they were,and I remember this was pre-Dan Brown's novel..

Another view of the..??? this is.

reply to post by Spider879


I'm going with C). on the last photo, they're woven baskets. You can't see a stem above the folded down "leafs" (ruling out a strawberry) nor can you make out kernels of maize/corn above said "leafs" ruling out the corn/maize. You also see the individual carrying them on his/er head.

dlbott
We also know the vikings were here and that Columbus never set foot here. But that is still the lie we teach our kids.

I have no doubt that the Norse saw more of North America than just the tip of Newfoundland, and the sub-arctic. I am also confident that the Basque were at Red Bay, and perhaps even up the St. Lawrence, before Columbus as well. However, before I go talking about who is lying...I wait for proof. I find that to be a reasonable practice.

reply to post by JJRichey


Excellent overview - with sources too, I suspect you have more than an amateur's knowledge and interest in Archaeology.

JohnnyCanuck

dlbott
We also know the vikings were here and that Columbus never set foot here. But that is still the lie we teach our kids.

I have no doubt that the Norse saw more of North America than just the tip of Newfoundland, and the sub-arctic. I am also confident that the Basque were at Red Bay, and perhaps even up the St. Lawrence, before Columbus as well. However, before I go talking about who is lying...I wait for proof. I find that to be a reasonable practice.

I would hazard that they may have gotten as far south as Cape Cod or with even more speculation, to Cape Charles or beyond