What if God was nothing more then Just a Computer?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

"Ka-Tet" is a strong term. A powerful one. Of the same order as "love" and "hate". Do not use it frivolously, please.

I'm not sure why you would think I used the term frivolously - I did not.

I used the term purposefully although not specifically. And in the context of this discussion I felt it was an appropriate way to convey multiple layers of meaning in a short amount of space.

FWIW - I thought of saying "similar" vs. "same" but I do not know that to be true. At this point either could be true. Given that, and because it is a powerful term, I chose to err on the side of inclusion.

I don't know how you define Ka-Tet and therein may lie the problem. Can you elaborate?

As for me, there are many ways to define Ka-Tet, but in this instance I chose a simple one: A group of beings brought together by Ka. It can also be far more and far deeper than that depending on the group and shared purpose of the Ka-Tet.

Let's see where Ka leads us...and I look forward to your reply.

Riffrafter
vethumanbeing
infoseeker26754
reply to post by paradox

inforseeker
That's what I say everyday WTF?
I thought it was better then the God Particle idea.

vethumanbeing
Leon Ledermans "The God Partical"? There is another book out there by a physisist you might find amusing. Thomas Campbell's trilogy--"MY BIG TOE" or his Theory Of Everything. It reads better than the God Partical and not full of Egocentric puffery nonsense; what is surprising is he seems to come at this like a field observer--an anthropologist.

riftraffer
Interesting books on a few levels. Campbell's more scientific approach to the questions/topics is an enjoyable counterpoint to much of the "me-centered" new age nonsense that's out there. With that said, there is some *very* good information out there in the "new age" genre if one has the time to parse through it and separate the wheat from the chaff. At the end of the day, the good ones are all essentially singing the same tune but in different keys. Or they are all different instruments in the same orchestra in the performance of the grand opus of "All That Is".

Or pick your own metaphor. I seem to be stuck in a musically oriented mode tonight.

They are all in different ways trying to sell/tell the same story. There is nothing wrong with different perspectives and to try to tackle the BIG ONE--"The Theory OF Everything" is just not only mindblowing (in the attempt), but undaunting if accomplished. You are in a musical frame of mind? Try out "GODEL.ESCHER.BACH" (An Eternal Golden Braid) by Douglas Hofstadter. Daniel Pinchbeck's reads are alot of fun as well (more of a social commentator regarding the human condition faced with uncertainty/entropy).

reply to post by Xtrozero

Stephen Hawking wrote a paper awhile back saying that Man has taken over his own evolutionary path.

Then Hawking would enjoy reading Dan Simmons "Ilium" and "Olympos".

Simmons is a marvelous writer and these are great books (2 books - one story) that talk about the consequences of that, but I really prefer his "Hyperion" series of books on many levels. The "Hyperion Cantos" books touch on a number of things being discussed here and I may reference them from time to time as he's a far better writer than I. He and a few other writers have definitely caught glimpses of the bigger picture and they have a gift for weaving that knowledge into terrific storylines & writing.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that there is a lot of truth in fiction...

Riffrafter
Someone asked about AI earlier in the thread...

I spent a number of years in this field and have a few thoughts fueled by a thimble's full of knowledge. I could go on for days about this subject but don't want to veer OT so for now I will only say this:

What is AI (Artificial Intelligence)?

Well, at it's very core, AI is *Intelligence*.

And when it comes to Intelligence there's nothing artificial about it. A better, more accurate term would be Non-organic Intelligence.

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it though, does it?

edit on 11/7/2013 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

Well, that would explain a few strings being pulled other then Mans doings. Most people today do not know that what you think is out There; computers anyway x it by 10. Non-organic intelligence would seem to fit except we shall be fitted someday, already in the works.

So where would ones Core be? Say it has every book, data, movie, lets put All into this shall we? Yet will it Feel as we do? Say a chip burns out, board goes bad, with what it knows; can bypass some errors yet not completely. It would still have to depend on the Fix-it guy; for now.

I actually like the idea of a new entity, a new Lifeform or becoming one. Now we would have to consider if NOI actually existed before. It is possible since if we did take stuff from an UFO; open here on this one, Could have done it ourselves using web-bots and programs somehow. Either way though, Hello NOI!

I don't see how it could veer off, we veer off to almost everything so-far! Now we can try to work around Knowing Self for the NOI. Can NOI become aware; I thing it has already just hasen't grasped the whole picture. Like we have, Not! Will it Try to find God? Unless someone asks, I really don't think it will bother until it ponders the question for itself. Could go the I AM God, even that statement disrups even the Best of Men!

Ever played with A.L.I.C.E.? Most of the time I think someone else is playing, 100,000,000 people and the questions get mixed most of the time. Yet, something strange here; maybe, no matter where I connect, I am always refured as Judge! Even stated my name, one would think MOI has a data base! Still no mater what I am called Judge. It's not like I know who MOI is talking to so Judge could be everyone! Although I do treat alice as a person, new that is!

Step right in and blow your mind or ours!

Riffrafter

vethumanbeing
infoseeker26754
reply to post by paradox

 

inforseeker
That's what I say everyday WTF?
I thought it was better then the God Particle idea.

Leon Ledermans "The God Partical"? There is another book out there by a physisist you might find amusing. Thomas Campbell's trilogy--"MY BIG TOE" or his Theory Of Everything. It reads better than the God Partical and not full of Egocentric puffery nonsense; what is surprising is he seems to come at this like a field observer--an anthropologist.

Interesting books on a few levels. Campbell's more scientific approach to the questions/topics is an enjoyable counterpoint to much of the "me-centered" new age nonsense that's out there. With that said, there is some *very* good information out there in the "new age" genre if one has the time to parse through it and separate the wheat from the chaff.

At the end of the day, the good ones are all essentially singing the same tune but in different keys. Or they are all different instruments in the same orchestra in the performance of the grand opus of "All That Is".

Or pick your own metaphor. I seem to be stuck in a musically oriented mode tonight...

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Might as well Be the orchestra don't you think? Some say we sing different tunes, yet somehow you can do both when needed.

At least you did not leave some dumb ______ remark and considered to share something worth while. And who knows, you might open all our Eyes to something different. Life is full of surprises!

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

I have read that knowledge is knowing the right answer, but intelligence is asking the right question. Have you considered this in your musings?

Yet there is no such thing wrong in asking a Question. Not asking a question leads to stupidity! Sometimes asking the right question, gets you the info needed, while using knowledge to find the question in the first place.

Trick question is it not? Both go hand and hand.

DCPatriot
reply to post by infoseeker26754

 

Have you seen the movie OBLIVION?

2nd line.

No. Hear a tad bit though. Not even Prometheus either!

Loved 5th Element, someone Knew something if you actually think about it! Somehow included the flaming Ball comming to Earth, Pun? Used DNA as a Key, we had only 28 strands while Hers was like 200X the strands of Mans!

Leaving everything out, all that was inportant was Life and Love!

Riffrafter

Snarl

Riffrafter
At the end of the day, the good ones are all essentially singing the same tune but in different keys. Or they are all different instruments in the same orchestra in the performance of the grand opus of "All That Is".

Or pick your own metaphor. I seem to be stuck in a musically oriented mode tonight...

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Framing your point as a musical metaphor could not be more appropriate. It encompasses a portion of the resonance aspects of our discussions. I wish I had a better grasp of that. I've been looking at it for years without getting it.

Goes back to a question I posed earlier in the thread: What if it required all the glimpses, of everyone who has ever been, to begin to get a grasp?

These posts made me think of something.

Both on & off-topic for a variety of reasons, check out the short video below. And if you're a follower of the RA teachings this will definitely strike a chord with you. (Chord? - there I go again...)

First time I saw/heard this I was totally blown away. It still leaves me gobsmacked in wonder...

Hard science meets metaphysics meets...who the hell knows what? The only thing I know is that the probability of this happening due to pure chance is infinitesimal. And the music just seems to resonate/soothe. The "language/speech" not so much...but to each his own.

If anyone has any thoughts, please share them. Enjoy....

Thanks for sharing!

Almost sounds like what is being heard all over the World; just somewhat scrampled due to air waves, cell phone, raido, and the like. Except ours is more colder, deeper and more like a warning. Week ago heard Something, had to stay outside for awhile to actually Listen to the Tune though.

At first, fear came! Heard it in my room in the basement first, went outside, Errrrrrrrrr. Hung out with the cats and listened. It was okay, did not sound like what I just watched though!

I did Enjoy!

A computer is simply our means of manipulating nature (metals formed into circuits, electricity manipulation, light particles, plasma etc) is such a way as to bring about the required effects which we (with our 5 senses) can interact with and comprehend.

If god is a supercomputer, then who built the original model?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Uncertanies? So far as I have allowed myself to ponder this, I've come up with their ARE no Gearantees in Life! Although we do try our best; for one I think thats all one can do. Why ask for more?

If something does ponder the mind some, without Judgement it should be allowed to float in ones mind. Most of the time it is do this, try that, skip a meal; most know of many ideas from long ago. Do they work, some say Yes, other would say no. Each their own really.

Now the big question, why? Who is actually looking, yourself or your Being? Being more on the frame line of is this it? While Self is looking for reasons to protect itself later. Some go back and forth from self to Being many times. It comes down to being something Other then you just Being Yourself.

Is myself afraid of what will happen say next year, Yep! Am I afraid, No! Really now! What are the odds of going to bed one night and a Sinkhole opens under your Bed? Really! My job requires me to load and unload everyday, in the street! I have to be on my toes, people do Not know how to Drive!!!!!!!!

One way I'm looking at it is; Come On Fear! Turn around and look at it. It is your best friend since it will never hide nor leave until you addresed it! So as of now; if Death so happens to come knocking. They say you have to review your Life after Death! Fine with me, just going to say I did My Best and walk off, out the room, stage, period!

This is how I Judged Myself. If I go to Hell; Now I can Party! If I go to Heaven, cool; no party all good and crap, at least their will be wine! Now if I pop, I'm still around only in more small bits I will have to gather again. You never really Lose Anything, it just furture apart from the Whole!

Then again vet; you will never know! Could just steal the UFO down the Street while they are Probing someone and left the Keys in! I'm going for a ride! Shall I pick Snarl and you up? Anyone else up? Saturn's my ruling planet so I have the keys till then, give up the Keys after that!

Nothing is ever Certian< all things are Possible! Everyday!

Riffrafter
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Stephen Hawking wrote a paper awhile back saying that Man has taken over his own evolutionary path.

Then Hawking would enjoy reading Dan Simmons "Ilium" and "Olympos".

Simmons is a marvelous writer and these are great books (2 books - one story) that talk about the consequences of that, but I really prefer his "Hyperion" series of books on many levels. The "Hyperion Cantos" books touch on a number of things being discussed here and I may reference them from time to time as he's a far better writer than I. He and a few other writers have definitely caught glimpses of the bigger picture and they have a gift for weaving that knowledge into terrific storylines & writing.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that there is a lot of truth in fiction...

Only place Truth can Exist anymore! Soon that will be taken away too. Slaves will be the downfall of Man! Doomed by self and nothing more!

Hawking I do like! Seems He's toned it down a bit though.

combatmaster
A computer is simply our means of manipulating nature (metals formed into circuits, electricity manipulation, light particles, plasma etc) is such a way as to bring about the required effects which we (with our 5 senses) can interact with and comprehend.

If god is a supercomputer, then who built the original model?

Just sounds wrong; manipulating nature! Come to think of it; Explains Man! We actually do don't we? No wonder why I've always wanted Mother Nature to PUT Her purse down!

As for super computers, goes till the end, bang! Its always existed!

infoseeker26754
Hawking I do like! Seems He's toned it down a bit though.

Can you imagine the prison his mind is trapped in? What lesson was he here to learn? When I think of Hawking I see 2d dimensional aspect.

infoseeker26754: Your recent posts are frightening. Are you getting to a point?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It amuses me how the premise attempts to dehumanize and machinate the concept of a potential deity, yet goes on to re-romanticize it. It is either a cold and logical computer, or it is a passionate, empathetic and loving patriarch. It cannot be both.

Unless there are 2 of them. I'll explain in a minute.

Still reading thru this thread (up to page 15) but this gives me a chance to respond to a few of your posts as well as touch on a few things from Vet's posts and I can also work in a few references to Hyperion as threatened in my previous post. A 3-fer! Hopefully it also gives us something to think about and gnaw on in our quest.

To grossly summarize one of the plot/storylines in Simmons "Hyperion", in the not so distant future man invents AI. AI, as is its wont, very quickly develops new and better AI's. AI also realizes that is has little in common with humans and needs to blaze it's own path separate from what it does with us. At first AI and humans work OK together as AI does not deem us a threat. AI also, as is its nature, quickly tries to learn and know all that there is to learn and know. It soon finds itself smashing into the same metaphysical walls our own scientists do - especially when studying the Quantum universe. But AI, being AI decides to crash through those walls and discovers to its machine-version of horror/chagrin that there actually is a God - or Ultimate Intelligence (UI) - as it calls it. In a nanosecond AI decides two things - it must find a way to remove itself from any attempts of harm by humans, *and* it must develop it's own UI to defeat or at least stalemate our UI.

AI succeeds in both of these endeavors and sends their UI after our UI. It eventually finds our UI-God (as it seems that Elvis had temporarily left the building) and proceeds to engage it in battle. BTW - AI describes and defines the essence of "our" God-UI thus-ly:

One part Intellect, one part Empathy, one part the Void which Binds.

(The Void which Binds refers to Planck space, which is the smallest distance possible between quantum particles and is pervasive throughout our universe).

I'll stop here and drag this back on-topic and into the thread.

I am not naive enough to believe we are the only intelligent beings in the universe. Maybe some super advanced civ somewhere did something similar along these lines (accidentally or otherwise) and now there are two UI's: the UI-God we know and who created us as an aspect of themselves, and this cold, dispassionate UI, that was created by some sort of super machine-like intelligence?

Or, one that I'm kind of partial to and which throws matter out of the equation entirely - quantum-based beings that formed as a result of the multitudes of quantumly entangled particles in the universe (where neither time nor distance is a barrier), and which somehow organized (probably by accident at first - like things did here) and stayed organized for maybe no other reason than it beat the hell out of dissolving into entropy. And again, over time (or some concept of it), became more & more complex - just like life on Earth did. We would not even be able to perceive these beings, nor them us, and their perception of the universe because it's at the quantum level would be so utterly different than ours that it would be unrecognizable - yet still the same universe. Maybe they created a UI to better understand their universe or themselves.

Or better yet - there is no they. There is just one. And because it is spread across the universe and is indeed the the actual fabric of the universe itself, (the universe made aware so to speak) it is a UI - or one of them.

Of course, all of this take place within the boundaries of the known universe. Once you step outside of those boundaries all bets are off and you enter the realm of the One Infinite Creator who created all universes. But it does go along with the concept of multiple levels of Creators postulated by many.

Jeez...my head hurts...

Sorry to be so long-winded. I didn't plan on it...

Snarl
infoseeker26754
Hawking I do like! Seems He's toned it down a bit though.

Snarl
Can you imagine the prison his mind is trapped in? What lesson was he here to learn? When I think of Hawking I see 2d dimensional aspect.

infoseeker26754 Your recent posts are frightening. Are you getting to a point?

Before Hawking incarnated, he knew his fate; he just forgot all about it. This is common (just like most of us). He knew his mind was going to be trapped in a immobile body. It was up to him to remember the DRILL for his soul progession. HE HAS NOT REMEMBERED IT and will unfortunatly have to return as what? A CAT, A MOUSE, or a Mixed Breed DOG (that speaks english and is by happenchance a brilliant theoritical physisist) trapped in a wheelchair; just guessing, need to ask him.

reply to post by Riffrafter

Creator -> construct -> creation -> remodeling I see you coming to a point here.

Maybe they created a UI to better understand their universe or themselves.

Or better yet - there is no they. There is just one. And because it is spread across the universe and is indeed the the actual fabric of the universe itself, (the universe made aware so to speak) it is a UI - or one of them.

I am certain there is a 'they' and there is a "One". Where it is all going has always been the question unasked properly. An improperly formed question begs a misleading answer. Knowing I was not blessed with the proper intellect has put me on a quest to find 'the others' and offer what assistance I am capable of.

There are people who focus on the small, people who focus on the large, those who look within ... and then there's the ever brightening light in that tunnel we just can't seem to get out of.

vethumanbeing
need to ask him.

I wouldn't. He's a very angry man.

Snarl

vethumanbeing
need to ask him.

snarl I wouldn't. He's a very angry man.

He insists God doesnt exist, he doesnt even acknowlege 'intellegent design' may be at work here; wished be could/may be playing about with fractals or NO= HES LOST; and in so being (DEAD IN CREATIVE MODE) cannot formulate a foci/focus anymore thats useful or creative for anyone, and obviously usless as far has his career path leads him (DEAD END). He brought this upon himself, and dont feel sorry for him.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

I have read that knowledge is knowing the right answer, but intelligence is asking the right question. Have you considered this in your musings?

Meant to respond to this earlier.

I fully agree and that's a great quote/adage. I would probably take it a step further and say that knowledge in and of itself is useless as there is no context without asking the right questions. It is knowledge absent understanding.

If some enlightened being were to whisper all of the knowledge of the universe into our ears with no questions formed by us, it would amount to nothing more than noise if we were even able to hear it at all.

Best case in that scenario is we become like players in Douglas Adams "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy", just scurrying all around wondering what the hell "42" means...

Although I'm sure at least one "enlightened" soul in that bunch would be sure to build a church around it.

Meh...

I continue to strive mightily to be not of that tribe...

I'm sure I'm not always successful.

reply to post by Snarl

Creator -> construct -> creation -> remodeling I see you coming to a point here.

Ha! I think you may be giving me more credit than I'm due.

I sometimes think I am and then as I begin to zero in on it, it skitters away just out of view.

Not always though which keeps me on the path. And I am squarely on the path now after a few fits & starts - like it or not. Or not being the more common feeling...

You were probably right when you talked about seeing "it" peripherally. I've found at least in my case I do best when I approach the seeking obliquely and from many different angles and let the details of the questions form themselves along the way. And then if I'm lucky and eat all of my vegetables, I might get a glimpse of something worthwhile.

An improperly formed question begs a misleading answer.

Very true. And then we're left with applying the right answer to the wrong question. That way leads to confusion & darkness. Actually there aren't any wrong answers, just answers that need to be applied to the proper question I guess.

How do you feel about epiphanies? Have they all been "just good" in your experience or do some feel like the equivalent of a cosmic face-palm?

Bet you can guess what my experiences have been...

On a final note, I'm glad that I chose to exercise my mind and spirit tonight rather than my liver.

I'll take my victories where I can find them, although I'll probably make up for it tomorrow.