At least 11 shot at chicago park

reply to post by davethebear


Wow, another two dimensional, arrogant oneliner from someone in the UK. Now that's a real surprise.

HairlessApe
reply to post by thesaneone

 

Violent crimes were reduced by 50% over 20 years after the criminalization of firearm possession. I didn't say there are no murders or violent crimes. Ever. Period. That is idiotic logic. No wonder you're pro gun.

edit on 20-9-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

Guess what?

Violent crimes have been going down in the US for the last 20 years too... AND in those last 20 years there have been loosened regulation on firearms. Expiration of AWB for instance, and many states loosening their stranglehold on the 2nd amendment.

Did you also know there was a time you could buy straight up surplus military light machine guns, anti aircraft guns, and all manner of ACTUAL military hardware out of a mail-order catalog, yet there was less violent crime then? What does that tell you?

But that doesn't fit into your false little worldview that gun laws stop violence- they don't, and they never will. You don't seem to understand, if someone is going to kill someone with a gun they are ALREADY going to commit a crime, do you honestly think someone who wants to kill someone is going to say "well I'd love to kill that SOB, but guns are illegal, so I can't use a gun"

Since you are all for laws, do you think it's a great idea to make drugs illegal? Once again, there was as time you could buy hardcore narcotics through mail order catalogs. But now that it's illegal we have a huge drug problem. Seeing the connection here?

If you support gun laws you are only supporting criminals. You are supporting the genesis of a massive illegal arms dealing ring that would crop up here in America, the likes of which we have never seen. You think a few bikers running guns is bad? Wait until the Russian mafia takes over the entire US's criminal underworld with a grip the Italians couldn't even dream of once demand for their illegal gun running services blossoms.

You don't see to be able to think critically enough. You can only think in very simple terms "make something illegal, a problem goes away!" That's how a child thinks. That's how a person incapable of actually delving into an issue and looking at it from all angles thinks. That's how someone who is ignorant of history, human nature, and is incapable of looking into the future and seeing the effects of actions we take now thinks. That person is you, and I'd be very embarrassed to hold such a mentality.

I predict you will refuse to address ANYTHING I brought up in this post and simply resort to attacks (and really, really lame ones at that. Hick? Really? What are you, 12? Your view of who supports firearms freedom is just flat out WRONG. Just like your view on other things. I have a thick skin, insult to me if you wish, I don't care, but at least also include actual discussion of the topic otherwise it's pointless.

reply to post by happykat39

As a cop in nearby Wisconsin through the 70's, I can tell you that Chicago has been considered a war zone since then. NOBODY wanted to have anything to do with it except during the daytime, and then only in certain areas.

Just read "Native Son" by Richard Wright and you will see that the seeds of crime and unrest were continuing to sprout and grow, exponentially, then. In fact, Chicago, like most large cities, has been a violent place since its inception. You are correct that too many people shoved into too small an area is a recipe for trouble. Banning guns has been tried many times in many venues and has failed as it always will. Criminals are criminal because THEY IGNORE THE LAW. They will hide their guns or they will make them. There are NUMEROUS skilled craftsmen who can fabricate a gun and ammunition from scratch so what does one really get when guns are banned? A brisk Black Market trade for sure.

One must identify the "people" reasons for violence and murder and confront them, not the tool that is used. My father's first words to me as he handed me my first gun were, "This is a tool that has one purpose only, to kill. It is NOT a toy, it is designed to kill. It serves no other purpose and it is up to YOU to use it only when you must. It can not decide that for you." While I used it only for hunting wild game to help feed us, many do not. But, it is hardly the gun making the choice now is it?

Off the soapbox....... I only really wanted to say to you.......

Very glad to hear that you have succeeded and grown into productive adulthood. Your mother sounds like a remarkable woman. .Bless her for her strength and her love.

masqua
reply to post by TKDRL

 

That is a good point. Hicks are the people I live with and they certainly don't have a gang banger mentality or a problem with gun crime.

That's the metro scene.

Nobody up here in Canada wants to 'take our guns away', but the PTB do make getting a handgun (anti-personnel) more difficult than getting a rifle (hunter's choice) and that's just logical. What's even more intelligent is refusing sales to convicted criminals and people with a history of violent psychological problems.

America's difficulty lies not in federal laws, but in the varied state laws.

[not in response to TKDRL]

As an aside, calling gang bangers 'animals' (pg. 1) is about as sensible as calling country folk hicks. You do know that a regular little 100 acre farm today is worth in excess of $1M, right? Hicks indeed.

edit on 20/9/13 by masqua because: (no reason given)

Those insults are not the same at all. Gang bangers, by nature of being gang bangers, are involved with illegal and violent activity.

Country folk isn't a gang you have to kill someone to join. You are born as one, or you move to that area. Being a country person says nothing about a person's actions. being a gang banger does. That's a huge differences, and I find it odd you are unable to notice it.

You say it's intelligent to restrict guns to criminals and violent offenders? I agree, as does most everyone who is pro-gun. What does that have to do with anything thought? Violent offenders are already barred from owning weapons in America. Criminals (well, felons) are already barred from owning weapons in America. You don't seem to know our laws that well at all.

Last time I purchased a gun (at a gun show, oh no loopholes!) I had a current misdemeanor case that ended up getting dropped because I was not involved, and the accusation was non-violent. Guess what? Just having an open case, non-violent and non-drug related, with no conviction, put a red flag on my background check. I was not allowed to buy the gun that day. That sounds like a system that works just fine to me. I'm not sure what additional checks you want to happen.

reply to post by spock51


I moved out of Chicago with my wife and children in the mid 60's. I moved to Bolingbrook, a small community about 35 miles southwest of Chicago along I-55. I bounced around that area through three wives and finally moved to suburban Atlanta Ga. in 2003 to take a job as a manufacturing engineer for one of my former customers. There is a better chance that we will see pigs flying over the frozen landscape of hades before I will move back north.

TKDRL

Hicks? You do realize chicago is a metropolis don't you? Us "hicks" don't seem to have a gun violence problem, unlike inner cities.

Indeed. The vast majority of the country, from a geographic standpoint, has very little problem with gun violence. That's the reason why new gun restrictions are so difficult to pass through Congress. Once you get outside the cities, most areas aren't affected by it and not many people see the need. It is ironic, though, that for all the accusations that gun owners are 'damn hicks', its actually the supposedly civilized people living in the metropolitan areas that are mostly responsible for the gun violence in this country. Go figure.

As for this incident, its par for the course in Chicago. Perhaps if the 'wonderful' Democrats running the city would spend less time focusing on inanimate objects like firearms, and spend more time eliminating their organized crime, gang and welfare cultures instead of cultivating and exploiting them for votes on election day, this might be less of an issue.

reply to post by happykat39

LOL

Indeed.

I moved my family to Florida in 81 and I now build swimming pools.

One of the older kids asked me if we were ever moving back to which I replied, "Yes, as soon as the Winter Olympics are held in Hades!"

Know EXACTLY what you mean.

Hope good fortune shines upon you.

reply to post by James1982


True to a point, but you are a lot more likely to be in a gang, just for being born into the wrong "hood", or being born into a gang family.

This doesnt count. Whenever it's poor, non-white or gang related it just doesnt count.

Chicago is gun-free as far as the wealthy white people are concerned.
Same as Oz and the UK.

Never mind the gangs killing each other or the subgun factories that are discovered every month or so or the estimated 5 million illegal firearms floating around the island.

That's all poor people, immigrants and minorities so we don't count those.

What's important is all the well-off white people feel safe by disarming each other with laws and regs.

HairlessApe
reply to post by goou111

 

Guns are not the problem here. Let's take a look at the real problem - parks. Obviously if those parks did not exist then no one would have been able to have gotten shot at the park.

250 days out of the first 260 days so far this year in America there have been mass shootings. (4 or more shot)

Wake up you damn hicks.

I just gut sick reading all of this this. Yes, guns are not the problem?!


Real problem here is that Chicago is unable to protect its citizens even with strict gun control, when government is unable (thanks to huge dollar supply from NRA) to create laws that will prevent unregistered gun sales here in states.

Chicago having strict gun laws does not do any good because you can still get them online, or just 30 miles in other state.

That is where our problem is, sorry that you are unable to see it...

ps. care to explain what would you do without parks in City like Chicago? Play video games?

SuperFrog

... when government is unable (thanks to huge dollar supply from NRA) to create laws that will prevent unregistered gun sales here in states.

So there is no law that makes selling a firearm to a felon or person otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm illegal?

That's news to me.

The Gun Control Act (GCA) makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms. 18 USC 922(g). Transfers of firearms to any such prohibited persons are also unlawful. 18 USC 922(d).

Guess you mean it should be made extra-illegal?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


It's typical. The big cities can't solve their damn violence problems, and point the blame everywhere but themselves. Pathetic.

HairlessApe
Violent crimes were reduced by 50% over 20 years after the criminalization of firearm possession. I didn't say there are no murders or violent crimes. Ever. Period. That is idiotic logic. No wonder you're pro gun.

edit on 20-9-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

The US has experienced similar drops in crime rates over the last 20 years. The homicide rate, in particular, is roughly half what it was in the early 90s, and total homicides are at or very near 40 year lows. This, despite gun sales at record highs.

JBA2848
reply to post by intrptr

 

They only do that if a cop gets shot.

Well they need to keep Chicago out of the picture as much as possible. Its bad for the president and certainly doesn't make a case for strict gun laws.

reply to post by HairlessApe


Right...because criminal gangs obey gun bans.

As a formal rural NYer, I had to put up with so much crap, because of ignorant city people. Strict ass gun laws, yet still plenty of killing going on. My part of NY didn't have any of those problems, yet they kept on pushing statewide crap on us, as if NYC is all of NY.

Then they started with the nation wide crap, acting as if the violent cities were all of the USA, and we are all violent nutcases. It gets ridiculous, and people wonder why gun owners get upset. Jumping through hoops set up for city people that can't wipe their asses by themselves, when we don't have these problems.

It gets annoying being punished because savages in the big cities can't keep their bullets to themselves.

The only way violence gets wiped out, is if poverty and ignorance gets wiped out. Restrictive gun laws do nothing to that end. It is just a feel-good facade. It's like giving a condemned structure a fresh coat of paint and calling it a livable dwelling.

thisguyrighthere

SuperFrog

... when government is unable (thanks to huge dollar supply from NRA) to create laws that will prevent unregistered gun sales here in states.

So there is no law that makes selling a firearm to a felon or person otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm illegal?

That's news to me.

The Gun Control Act (GCA) makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms. 18 USC 922(g). Transfers of firearms to any such prohibited persons are also unlawful. 18 USC 922(d).

Guess you mean it should be made extra-illegal?

Nop, system is not working...

Read this: The gun that killed my sister

Not illegal - better controlled!

Please note...

Elvin Daniel, whose sister was killed in the October 2012 Brookfield, Wis., spa shooting, is a gun owner, NRA member, and gun violence-prevention advocate.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by goou111

 

250 mass (4 or more people) shootings so far this year in America. Its not guns that are the problem its statisticians for counting the incidents.

I hate to sound like a broken record but there is just to much violence coming from the boob tube and the silver screen for these to be counted out of the equation. Even these real life gang shows on cable simply glorify the gang life. Heck they are stars now.

For all these people calling for stricter gun laws or who believe that the prevalence of firearms in the hands of regular citizens somehow accounts for these rampages, or significantly enhances them, you have to look at the cold hard facts. So everyone knows. The statistics don't favor strict gun control in any way shape or form. DOJ, FBI, Census Bureau. Even Studies by educational institutions like Harvard show no correlation between the lethality and danger of living in a society society and access to firearms by law abiding citizens. I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that restricting firearms in the US (and there are multiple states and municipalities where it has been tried to a more or less degree) saves lives, reduces violent crime, and reduces "mass shootings" or "rampages". Not a single credible source can actually point to any evidence otherwise. It is ALWAYS an op-ed piece calling for the dismantlement of part of the US constitution with the hopes that it is ignored, meanwhile suggesting this action sets no precedent of being able to infringe on other amendments without recourse.

Here are a few examples about how denying access to regular citizens has very little effect.

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.nbcnews.com...

www.jewishpress.com...

www.bbc.co.uk...


Now. Lets take a look at what the census bureau has to say.
The Census bureau estimates that in the US, ~800,000 violent crimes (Murder, Rape, Armed Robbery, Assault & Battery, etc.) are deterred by the display and non-use of a personal firearm. That's 1.5 a minute. Keep in mind, these are the ones that are reported. I have defended myself with the display of a firearm exactly twice, and reported neither time. Imagine if few to none of those situations were diffused by the presentation of and not firing of a gun?

Opinion is the ONLY thing that supports gun control. I challenge anyone here to provide factual evidence as to why one portion of the US constitution ought to be ignored. If there really is a need, amend it, don't ignore it, it sets very very very bad precedent.

reply to post by SuperFrog

Last October, my sister Zina was murdered with an illegal gun

Fancy that, an illegal gun, who woulda thunk it.