This is for people in their 30's and beyond, It is about Trust and Betrayal.

There is a reason I stated the 30 and over age group. Not intending to make a generalization just observant that this age group will better understand what I'm talking about, If anybody younger than that can relate that's great too.

Essentially What Im trying to say is that the roles of trust and betrayal play a massive role in shaping our personalities in our later 20's and early 30's.

I'll just brush over the early child hood and early teens.

As kids we are bombarded with false stories and told they are true, we then get a bit older and are either told or discover for ourselves that it was mostly BS. Some call this the end of innocence.

Later in your teens you leave school with the illusion that all that hard work you did in high school will result in the outcomes you were promised. This does not always eventuate and more often than not the students realize all too late they were sold something that was nothing like the finished product.

And it goes on and on from relationships to fast food menu's from politicians to almost all non essential products.

Now I realize this isnt true for everybody and my expectations are to be blamed for most of it, I mean after all perception and reality are hard to separate.

So I ask again are there people out there who feel like we have been sold BS on quite a lot of things we simply take for granted. like bad cell phone reception. Why do we pay a premium for a product we dont receive.

Why do we continue to trust in the face of so much betrayal??

Put simply: Yes.

Ive only just turned 30, but i feel like the layers of reveal are like skins on an onion and there are many more layers to go that are 'classified'.

If the things i know about the things I know arnt real or incorrect, what about the things I still dont know!

starts with Santa Clause and goes down hill from there, i guess the bigger the secrets or lies the bigger the money (to be gained by the few that know).

s+f

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

As kids we are bombarded with false stories and told they are true, we then get a bit older and are either told or discover for ourselves that it was mostly BS. Some call this the end of innocence.

I always say as kids,you are surrounded by adults you think know everything...as adults we start to understand just how full of it they were being as they don't know anything either.

Later in your teens you leave school with the illusion that all that hard work you did in high school will result in the outcomes you were promised. This does not always eventuate and more often than not the students realize all too late they were sold something that was nothing like the finished product.

Ahh the start of the critical thinking years that parents didn't tell you about...no parent ever says "screw school...its not worth the investment"
Thats for you to figure out because they are not allowed to...the politically correct would slay them and they don't want or need that.

I mean after all perception and reality are hard to separate.

LOL...my wrestling days,perception IS reality to most.
(even the fakest of things)

So I ask again are there people out there who feel like we have been sold BS on quite a lot of things we simply take for granted.

Our parents were told the same lies.....dysfunction creates more dysfunction.

like bad cell phone reception. Why do we pay a premium for a product we dont receive.

Yet Osama Bin Laden gets perfect reception from a cave in Torra Borra while mine gets cut off walking through a mall.

Why do we continue to trust in the face of so much betrayal??

I don't and don't think I ever have past the age of 12.

Not sure it's so much about trust and betrayal as it is consistency v. change. As humans we cling desperately to normalcy --- what we know and 'understand' --- and do everything we can to keep things that way. Collectively we'd rather hold onto the status quo rather than face the uncertainty of change. For that reason, we rationalize the betrayal, rewrite history, and simply refuse to see it --- closing our eyes, covering our ears and shouting 'nahnahnahnahnahnah'. This is why things never change. We insist on perpetuating it. Given all the blatant corruption, waste, incompetence, malfeasance, and inequity heaped on us by our very own government over the last generation you'd think we'd stand-up and throw the lot out, wouldn't you? But we don't. And despite the enormous body of evidence you'll find people --- a great many right here on ATS --- defending the current paradigm for dear life. We are SO screwed.

starts with Santa Clause and goes down hill from there, i guess the bigger the secrets or lies the bigger the money.

reply to post by Biigs



There's no Santa

Why oh why did you lie mum and dad ?

Why do we continue ?

We don't, that's how we all end up on ATS looking for answers as to why and how we were lied to for so long, and trying to help each other find the truth.

Just my 2 cents

Cody

I believe that without trust our society fails. I have a friend that thinks everyone is out to get him, and maybe so. Me, on the other hand, although I don't blindly trust, try and give someone the benefit of the doubt. I would be a horrible existence to always be looking over your shoulder and thinking everyone is coming for you. Brings to mind the movie Book of Eli. If we get to that point, might as well lock ourselves in the house and hide!

DrumsRfun
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

As kids we are bombarded with false stories and told they are true, we then get a bit older and are either told or discover for ourselves that it was mostly BS. Some call this the end of innocence.

I always say as kids,you are surrounded by adults you think know everything...as adults we start to understand just how full of it they were being as they don't know anything either.

Later in your teens you leave school with the illusion that all that hard work you did in high school will result in the outcomes you were promised. This does not always eventuate and more often than not the students realize all too late they were sold something that was nothing like the finished product.

Ahh the start of the critical thinking years that parents didn't tell you about...no parent ever says "screw school...its not worth the investment"
Thats for you to figure out because they are not allowed to...the politically correct would slay them and they don't want or need that.

I mean after all perception and reality are hard to separate.

LOL...my wrestling days,perception IS reality to most.
(even the fakest of things)

So I ask again are there people out there who feel like we have been sold BS on quite a lot of things we simply take for granted.

Our parents were told the same lies.....dysfunction creates more dysfunction.

like bad cell phone reception. Why do we pay a premium for a product we dont receive.

Yet Osama Bin Laden gets perfect reception from a cave in Torra Borra while mine gets cut off walking through a mall.

Why do we continue to trust in the face of so much betrayal??

I don't and don't think I ever have past the age of 12.

edit on 19-9-2013 by DrumsRfun because: (no reason given)

Exactly. So essentially since the age of 12 you have learned that not all that glitters is gold. Here is the kicker.

You would have to assume the people that came before us went through a similar process as we did albeit with a different reality but essentially the same process. They might not have had smart phones and 3D TV but they would have been sold lies that didnt pan out.

SO then why did they propagate the lie? I know when I have kids they will be getting the real as I know it. With the encouragement to seek out their own answers.

I know people say they are only kids and let them have a slice of ignorance as they will have it taken away in short order anyway. And I think that is wrong (my opinion).

Im a firm believer in telling them the truth even if it is ugly. You cant fix a problem you cant even acknowledge is true. Just the way I see it anyway. I believe kids come into this world a blank slate and have the capacity to grow and evolve much faster than we ever did, so why stunt that development with lies and hypocrisies.

Just saying.

jtma508
We are SO screwed.

It would seem to be the case lol.

I agree that if we dont change the way we think and act for the future generations that we will indeed be screwed.

cody599
We don't, that's how we all end up on ATS looking for answers as to why and how we were lied to for so long, and trying to help each other find the truth.

Pretty much why i signed up to ATS. Id read info well put together that made sense that was not being shared by and commented on in other places. Eventually i just had to create an account so i could ask my questions too and participate where i could.

Its the little things, like *heard on this mornings news* the medical university that lets in all the failures, because they want to turn them around with excellent teaching and prove other unis lacking? Nope, bad students make more debt and have it looming over for longer.

Question everything twice, even if you are fairly certain and if there's money follow that instead of asking questions and be lied to.

Hee Hee, I'm 52 and I know EXACTLY what you're talking about.

I have pretty much learned to dis-trust nearly everything unless multiple layers of what I consider to be proof, (proof, as truth, is relative and varies between persons), are presented in a way I do not have to hire a lawyer to understand.

If I have to hire a lawyer to read the contract / agreement / terms... I just don't enter into an agreement which demands my performance, or more performance than I'm willing to accept.

Nobody offers something for nothing unless they're trying to lure you close in, for what usually turn out to be things one would rather not get mixed up in.

The only people I enter into agreements with are family, and that has proven to be a mistake several times. But those family members I can express my disappointment to without having to worry too much about getting killed or having the crap beat out of me.

There are situations where you must simply trust strangers because if you did not, you would be unable to do much of anything, like when you are driving down the road and everyone pretty much understands they are not supposed to be crashing into one another or running down pedestrians and the like, if you eat at a restaurant it goes without saying you pay before you leave and so on.

There is no common sense anymore, why worry about common sense when you can just purchase insurance to protect you from the consequences of doing stupid things ?. That's a whole other issue........

reply to post by TiM3LoRd



This is how it was for our parents.
Its like molding people or indoctrination.
We live in an age of info and disinfo,they didn't have that option and lived in the disinfo age. (as do we in some regards)

They had no clue,we have the ability to now say...YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE while pretending that WE DO.

Its a funny thing and it will most likely continue with the children of today.

I abandoned trust in my 30's. I realized I don't need it. Trust is your brain shutting off.

I engage with optimism and an open but critical mind. Once I understand a person or a group I don't need to trust them. I gravitate towards people that are (more or less) transparent and coherent and away from those that are erratic and introverted.

Once I learned what memes are and how they influence behavior I forgave all the misinformation I received during my youth.

I know this won't work for everyone but it works for me.

DrumsRfun
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

This is how it was for our parents.
Its like molding people or indoctrination.
We live in an age of info and disinfo,they didn't have that option and lived in the disinfo age. (as do we in some regards)

They had no clue,we have the ability to now say...YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE while pretending that WE DO.

Its a funny thing and it will most likely continue with the children of today.

I know what you mean but for my part if and when I ever have kids I'm going to do my best not to lie to them. Why would they ever listen to you if they think you are a liar.

I remember when I was 18 years old, and thought I knew everything I needed to know. Now I realize that knowing everything is actually a learning disability, because one who believes themselves to know everything just won't listen to anyone who actually knows more than they do.

The more I learn, the less I know.

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner

Now I realize that knowing everything is actually a learning disability

Its what you learn AFTER you think you know it all that really counts.

My mom used to harp (no...NOT HAARP again) on this and that and after i got older and discounted her many times...I realized she might have been right.

The more you know,the less you need.

MyHappyDogShiner
I remember when I was 18 years old, and thought I knew everything I needed to know. Now I realize that knowing everything is actually a learning disability, because one who believes themselves to know everything just won't listen to anyone who actually knows more than they do.

The more I learn, the less I know.

Indeed I have found this to be true, The more I learn and not just facts and figures but simple interactions with people and everyday living seems to indicate an infinite amount of other information I will never be able to experience or gather. There will never be a point where you will know it all.

But the fun is in looking.

DrumsRfun
reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner

 

Now I realize that knowing everything is actually a learning disability

Its what you learn AFTER you think you know it all that really counts.

My mom used to harp (no...NOT HAARP again) on this and that and after i got older and discounted her many times...I realized she might have been right.

LOL its a scary day indeed when you realize your parents might have been right on a couple of things.

Again if they communicated the truth early on in life we might have listened the first time around hehe.

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


Your post reminded me of a line in Sherman Alexie's "Flight". I have no clue where my copy is. Odds are my eldest probably nabbed it to read it again so I'm stuck paraphrasing. "Flight" is about a young man who calls himself Zits who gets led astray by a rough life and a charismatic young psychopath and is about to commit a violent crime within a bank. By the end of the book, however, his perspective is changed and he makes the remark that everyone around him expects him to be a respectful stranger. It's all about trust. If we truly didn't trust each other to some level, we wouldn't be going to a bank or a grocery store. Every time we step out the door, we place trust in others to be those "respectful strangers". It's a great book.

To the OP: I think a lot more people understand that there are significant issues that exist in the world. I have friends who will spend their days slavering over the next upcoming episode of Dexter or Breaking Bad and I've talked with them a great deal. They know that there are problems in the world but most of them feel helpless and uncertain of what to do. There are some significant issues with say our government or even our economic structure and there's a lot of often contradicting arguments on either what the problem is, how to fix it, or even a combination of both. It makes it all a confusing mess with no consensus approved tenable solution. Some people, like a lot of the posters here on ATS, respond by trying to figure it out. Others, feeling overwhelmed, try to escape. I think that's why it seems like things are kind of in a consistent cycle of trust-->betrayal. However, I do think that change does happen.

For instance, the Patriot Act was passed in response to 9/11 at the height of fear of terrorist attack. It was a very extreme law in response to an extreme event. Out of fear, the majority of society went along with it but as time passed, it became apparent that the Patriot Act had provisions in it that were not palatable. People started responding by calling certain provisions of the Patriot Act into question. We're technically still in that mode. It's kind of like cause --> effect --> reaction --> balance. The McCarthy Era would be another similar time in that respect. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I'm holding out hope that society will find a way to balance itself again.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

It's even scarier when you point out some of the things they taught you were wrong, and they agree. When my parents had me, they were only in their 20's, and thought they had it all figured out.

I have a friend who was complaining about what a problem he was having with his 18 year old son. I pointed out the way I remember I thought at that age, then told him to remember how he thought, and we realized his kid thought he had everything, and knew everything he needed to know.

When you're an 18 year old kid, you can get a job, rent an apartment, play house with some little girl and fall all in love and have sex. You can go into debt and drive a better car than you need, get your girl pregnant and stop learning for the next 18 years while you work yourself to death to pay for all of those things you should never have done, now that you think about what you could have done instead. If you had only listened to those crazy old drunk guys on the park bench....

LOL

I have a 3 year old and I do not believe in telling young children the truth about everything. You only get one life and if for a small part of it everything can be happy and magical, who am I to take that away from him. Childhood is the most cherished part of most people's lives. Largely for the reason that they felt like the world was a happy place full of wonder and possibilities.


Why take that from somebody?