UFO Abduction Phenomena--Unholy Communion--the Fourth Kind {first of several summaries/reviews of Gu

NOTE: I was asked to give some suggestions as to which of Guy Malone's youtube videos were best, most useful, etc. by a poster on this thread:


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I replied to the U2U that I'd try and do that as soon as I could manage the time etc.

IT seems more useful and fitting to give such their own thread.

This first video is available here:

www.youtube.com...

= = = = =

Here's my notes, paraphrases and some selected quotes from various sources . . .

= = = = =

UFO ABDUCTION PHENOMENA—UNHOLY COMMUNION: THE FOURTH KIND UNVEILED by Joe Jordan and Guy Malone


www.youtube.com...
My [BoX] personal notes, paraphrased etc.
50 years of combined research experience on the topic over the 3 people.
Joyce Ahrens experience as an abductee from A&E channel

Implants

Roper Poll . . . 100’s of thousands, even millions evidently abducted.
WHY DO CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE THESE EXPERIENCES AND NOT OTHERS?

What do other secular researchers have to say about this field?
GUY MALONE . . . brought 30th speakers to the 60th anniversary Roswell conference.

Guy got into the field after the Heaven’s Gate 39 people suicide cult event.

Guy Malone’s first book—free online—title:
An overview of the spiritual messages of UFO critters . . .

IF they are really travelers from distant planets, why aren’t they primarily talking about advanced technology instead of about spirituality and END TIMES, coming earth changes; how they can save us from the end times etc. that tends to be the case, instead.

JOHN MACK—BK: ABDUCTION—OVER 200 MEN AND WOMEN . . .

ALIEN DISCUSSIONS: PROCEEDINGS FROM ALIEN ABDUCTIONS CONFERENCE . . . BK from the John Mack chaired MIT 4 day conference . . .

The group determined that the alien abduction experiences were not about, not a function of mental health issues.

Dr Karla Turner herself an abductee . . . BKS: TAKEN; INTO THE FRINGE and MASQUERADE OF ANGELS
She did not have a warm fuzzy view of such experiences.

Dr David Jacobs: THE THREAT: REVEALING THE SECRET OF THE ALIEN AGENDA
Studied abduction reports over 40 years.

THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL ENCOUNTERS . . . quite large . . .

2% of Americans have evidently had an abduction experience.

BETTY ANDREASSON: THERAPIST RAYMOND FOWLER: THE ANDREASSON AFFAIR
DR CARL SAGAN

“…sought to find a rationale for the reason that might lie behind such visitations in his excellent book Intelligent Life in the Universe. After critically analyzing a number of possible motives, he stated quite bluntly: “One of the primary motivations of the exploration of the new world was to convert the inhabitants to Christianity. Can we exclude the possibility of an extraterrestrial evangelism?” pp203-204 THE ANDREASSON AFFAIR

ARE ET’S INTENTIONALLY EVANGELIZING US for an alternative SPIRITUALITY?

QUOTES from the critters:

--an “other dimensional,” dream like quality . . .
My wife’s paper . . . about fallen angels . . .

John Mack: The information . . . is concerned PRIMARILY with the fate of the earth . . . and human destructiveness . . . apocalyptic images . . . nuclear holocaust . . . giant earthquakes, firestorms, fractures of the planet itself . . . some abductees given assignments . . .

Karla Turner:
Gaze of the greys . . . we will not harm you, you are chosen . . . we are making a new you, the entity required . . . yes, we are an angel but not like you have been taught . . . the bad times on earth . . . she has accepted them as angels even though there are things that they do that seem wrong to us. . . . my children; my father still active in a military organization . . . a cosmic mission . . . a constant undercurrent of striving . . . a job and task on earth related to Armageddon . . . felt as if her head were being opened and her brain removed . . . REALIZED SHE WAS DIFFERENT . . . now filled with new ideas about God . . . it was interesting that she related this “job and task on earth” to Armageddon. . .

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ET ENCOUNTERS . . . page 1 ANOTHER GOAL of this alien program is the alteration of human consciousness to change our perceptions of ourselves as a species.”

The abductions typically involve:

1. Capture . . .
2. Examination . . .
3. Conference: A meeting, lecture or schooling session follows. . .
4. Tour . . .
5. Other-worldly Journey . . .
6. Theophany: The witness meets a divine being or has a religious experience
7. Return. . .
8 Aftermath . . .
Thomas Eddie Bullard QUOTED IN Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters, Ronald D Story Editor

“In the opinion of the writer, the asinine, bizarre, and crazy aspects of the UFO/alien activity can be hypothesized as the ABCs of a Cosmic Consciousness Conditioning (CCC) program: to change humans from Planetary Persons to Cosmic Citizens.”
--R Leo Sprinkle, quoted in Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters, pg 136-140. Ronald D Story Editor

What follows is a summary of these claims about UFO experiences and related conditions:

1. UFO contactees have been chosen no UFO contact is accidental
2. Contactees are ordinary people, who exhibit a caring or a loving concern for all mankind . . .
.
4. UFO experiences include paraphysical, parapsychological, and spiritual manifestations which are designed to influence the “world view” of contactees.
…
8. Contactees are programmed for a variety of “future” activities including awareness of their own contacts and desire to share their messages and knowledge with other contactees.
9. . . .
10. The personal metamorphosis of UFO contactees is the forerunner of a social transformation in human consciouisness, which now is leading to changes in the economic educational, military, political and religious institutions of nations of the earth . . .
R Leo Sprinkle . . . in Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters pp136-140

From Karla Turner . . .

Angie
“Am I part alien?” . . . One of the Grays told her that she had been “altered a little” to fulfill a special purpose. The blond man said they had produced a “novel breed” from ova they’d taken from her. He told her she was a “Chosen One” TAKEN pg 155

He told her that these beings, “a nonphysical form of energy,” were created and controlled by his group. Did you creat humans, too?” Angie asked, and he confirmed this.” TAKEN p 157

Ann Brooke . . . Stockholm phenomena . . . regardless of being raped etc.

“An examination of the evidence indicates beyond any doubt that a primary agenda of the alien visitors—whoever or whatever they are—is to change what human beings think about God and His Word (the Bible) and to replace exclusive Christianity with a religion of universalism”
--Ron Thodes “Alien Obsession” drawing on Bill Alnor PhD’s UFOs in the New Age

Continued . . . running out of characters

reply to post by BO XIAN


I hope to get back to continuing this shortly.

My own convictions are aligned with Guy Malone's.

The critters are lying fallen angels.

Government whistleblowers have long said that the critters

"LIE, LIE, LIE"

Certainly they are not to be trusted in terms of spirituality and cosmology.

BO XIAN
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I hope to get back to continuing this shortly.

My own convictions are aligned with Guy Malone's.

The critters are lying fallen angels.

Government whistleblowers have long said that the critters

"LIE, LIE, LIE"

Certainly they are not to be trusted in terms of spirituality and cosmology.

Many of the Gut's threads are about this topic, it is an interesting take on the "alien" phenomenon and abduction. The Gut some good info.

To me the whole Abduction thing makes no sense for a technologically advances species to be doing, At the point man could travel the stars, enough that as often as these abductions happen. I would hope "exploratory" Procedures would be long gone...

You would think a hair sample pulled from a pillow would have all the "genetic" Information any advanced race would need to know about humans.

So do these beings lack advance computer simulations and medical technology or what?

I would highly doubt an advanced race would travel the stars to visit Earths back waters to kidnap Cletus from the trailer park, probe him and give him a Plato like dissertation on civilization.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Continued:

First Guy Malone Video notes continued . . .

”If the alleged messages that contactees are receiving are true, then the Bible is not true. God is not what or who we think He is. Christianity must be radically altered to fit the new paradigm.”
--David Allen Lewis & Robert Shreckhise “UFO: End Time Delusion” from the introduction

Guy: Don’t be fooled . . . these entities . . . will require a choice on your part.

”Either the aliens are right and they’re telling people the truth; which means that everything that the Christian Church traditionally teaches about God and the Bible is a lie. Or the Bible is right, God is Truth, and the aliens are lying.” . . .

The real question is . . . are the entities that people are reporting communication with and torment at their hands . . . are they authentic ET’s, or not . . .

There’s no two ways about it:
Allegiance with these entities will cost you your relationship with the real Jesus Christ and the God of the Bible . . . or vice versa, you will have to make a choice.”


. . . are they themselves spiritual beings . . .
“Outside the changing room, the entities awaited Betty. She became fearful and prayed frantically for help. “Ah,” she thought to herself, “What is all this about? What are they going to do to me?...

“Oh Jesus be with me!”

Betty Speaking:
“When I said that, the leader glanced at me quickly—sort of surprised or stunned. …and he seemed to move a little slower. . . . he said, “You’ll be alright. Foll us. Please
The Andreasson Affair by Raymond Fowler pgs 37-38

Guy Malone:
If what people are dealing with in these encounters are authentic extraterrestrial life forms with superior technology, why would her almost absent minded expression of the Name of Jesus cause the entities to be “surprised or stunned?” This begins to lend itself to a spiritual explanation of the phenomenon. . . . . they can’t get away no matter how hard they try. Right? . . .

.
Why would such allegedly superior entities in the transcribed accounts of one of the most famous abductees in history as soon as she said “Jesus,” Why would they now have to plead with her—“Please! Follow us.”
-Guy Malone in this video

Joe Jordan. Can Guy’s stuff be backed up with research?

To be continued
.

Joe Jordan continued from first video:

Realized that folks who came to Mufon meetings were desperate for answers because of their abductions. So Joe and cohorts under him changed their focus from lights in the sky to the abductees.

Bill D was different . . . 1976 . . . abduction started out typically . . . paralysis set in . . . he was unable to cry out . . . could see nothing but a whitish grey . . . like a mist, a fog . . . the next thing he knew, he was levitate above his bed . . . feeling like a pole was inserted in his rectum. By this time he was alive with terror . . .

“I thought I was having a satanic experience . . . so helpless . . . I said, “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus help me . . . “ there was a feeling or a sound or something that either my words that I thought or the words that I had tried to say or whatever, had hurt whatever was holding me up in the air on this pole. And I felt like it was withdrawn and I fell. I hit the bed because it was like I was thrown back in bed. I really can’t tell, but when I did, my wife woke up and asked why I was jumping on the bed.”

At point 0:55:48 in the video

This was an unusual case. He claimed he’d been able to stop the abduction experience. No other evidence that the experience could be stopped was in the literature.

Joe contacted some of the top researchers in the field . . . called them at home on the phone . . .
First thing out of their mouths—can we go off the record? . . . anonymity is respected . . . these guys shared with me that they too had come across cases like this.

Why don’t you share this? . . . “We really didn’t know what to make of it.”
And

“We really didn’t want to go there because it might affect our credibility . . . “

We have a cover-up among the researchers themselves.

I decided that I was going to take this as my turf . . . I have worked with over 400 abduction experience cases—all matching that first experience—that they’ve been able to stop that experience by calling on the name and authority of Jesus.

I did not ask for this . . . this is still coming in . . . more and more . . .

People began asking us if we could help them stop such.

1. WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN TO THESE PEOPLE?

In the 100’s of cases we have worked with . . . a commonality in answer to that question:

A) You asked for it.
B) Some people unknowingly open a door to the experience by an involvement in the New Age and/or occult realms. We found this reason to be the most common.
C) . . . 4 or 5 years old . . . they’re not dabbling in the occult . . . What we’ve found is that they are a part of a generational cycle and a generational curse. . . . The opening came from one or more of the parents. It’s important how you raise your children.


The secular realm does not want these answers.

Counseling side:
How do I get set free?

Dr Henry Wright . . . A MORE EXCELLENT WAY: BE IN HEALTH

www.beinhealth.com...

8 R’s to Freedom

1. RECOGNIZE—you must recognize what it is.
2. RESPONSIBILITY—you must take responsibility for what you recognize
3. REPENT—Repent to God for participating with what you recognize
4. Renounce—you must take what you recognize as your enemy and renounce it.
5. REMOVE IT—Get rid of it once and for all
6. RESIST—When it tries to come back, resist it.
7. REJOICE—Give God thanks for setting you free.
8. RESTORE—Help someone else get free.

This was what we were sharing with people but had never written it down.

[Note, Guy Malone gave me personal permission to post from his materials on the websites I frequent.]

These cases—100’s of documented cases . . . show that there’s an Authority over these critter, higher than these critters.

The secular researchers have now started saying similar things about where the critters come from . . . a spiritual dimension . . .

To be continued as I can manage it. . . .

Joe Jordan continued:

We are probably the most hated people in the UFO realm. . . .

I'm MUFON . . . they know what I'm doing . . . they don't like it either. But they have to deal with it because I took their methodology to document it and they have to respect that.

. . .

It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

There seems to be a definite spiritual connection to this phenomena.

It's leading to a Christian perspective.

I DIDN'T ASK FOR THAT!

I wasn't a Christian.

I was a secular agnostic researcher.

And had this dumped in my lap.

. . .

I'm expecting the usual hostilities toward Christianity . . . probably without a shred of the skeptics considering the evidence at face value. That's the norm on such scores on about any website and certainly on ATS.

There may even be government, globalist shills lobbying heavily against such a construction on the abduction realities.

Perhaps some of us could pray that even the skeptics could be moved by Holy Spirit to become more objective and fair-minded and discover the true realities involved.

I hope we can keep on the topic of the testimony involved in Guy's videos . . . of course . . . their strengths and weaknesses from individual perspectives . . .

at about point 1:16:18 . . . an abductee shares his experience . . .


At 1:18:20 . . . another experiencer shares a bit of his story. . . . other demonic forces sorts of experiences.


AT 1:20:40 . . . Kathy shares her experiences . . . grey alien . . . felt his breath on my skin . . . son opened my eyes and said it wasn't an alien but it was a demon. . . . 2 months later . . . they approached my bed . . . I took authority in Jesus' name . . . they disappeared.

Other individuals come up and share their stories.

1:21:00 . . . 10 years of such experiences . . . the offered me fame fortune . . . when I called on the Name of Jesus Christ, the abduction would stop . . . I asked for others to fight with me . . . the entities would burst into flames.


1:27:50 Bill D who started such research shares from being hoisted above his bed with a pole up his butt . . . "You have to make a commitment to put The Lord #1" [in your life]

At point 1:32:00 John Black's affirming that Joe was the furthest thing from a Christian.



John Black, a former Coworker of Joe Jordan . . . knew Joe when Joe was very hostile to Christians and assaulted them constantly--including assaulting John Black daily on the job . . . Joe ended up tracking John down after John had left the company . . . phoned him . . . John was shocked because John had classified Joe Jordan as one of those "hopeless cases" that John prayed for but considered Joe like "the devil incarnate" in his harsh constant attacks on John and John's Christianity.



= = = = = =

Not sure when I'll get to the next video but I hope to present the better ones . . .

reply to post by benrl


Thanks.

I believe The GUT has a lot of great insights into such goings on.

I hope he shows up on this thread.

His fine mind makes good contributions.

With the greatest of respect to the OP this isn't opinion or considered research, this is just blatant propaganda on behalf of an agenda that has no real interest in the subject and seeking the truth rather, seeks only to subvert the whole subject for it's own fiscal ends.

Seriously, actually sit and read back out aloud some of the statements you have posted and then ask yourself, do I personally, have a single shred of credible evidence to back this all up that isn't based on what someone else told me I should believe?

You do realise that much of what you have posted could be back dated to exactly the same sort of pamphlets that were circulating around the West when slavery was abolished or women given the vote? People back then were warning of the self same dire consequences, the end of times etc etc and here we are again.

There again, when people can genuinely believe that, the all powerful "evil" one who can destroy at will on a cosmic level and subvert all but the saintly from the path of righteous good was telling people to stick backward messages on bits of rotating plastic on some world in the butt end of the universe well, gotta admit, I for one decided that, if that's true, they probably ain't that omnipotently evil after all maybe even just a little dumb.

You know, Ufology has had it's spiritual side since the late 1940s and the fact is, most people thought then and probably still do. "Well that's nice however, how do you explain Justin Beiber being so freaking famous then?"

See, one can't help but suspect that, this thread isn't about discussion, it isn't about facts, evidence, theories, it's a fait accompli and we're all supposed to say. "OMG, how did I ever not see this, please subscribe me to your newsletter and here's my bank account details".....

reply to post by FireMoon


THANKFULLY, You couldn't be more wrong . . . particularly about

the now 500 or so cases cited

and certainly wrong about Guy Malone.

Guy has always had a policy of sending his DVD's out for whatever donation folks wish--even if it's less than postage and cost of materials.

And now, I haven't checked elaborately for certain, but it looks like all his videos are available free on youtube.

You are welcome to make a choice to disbelieve.

However, it would be better to fair-mindedly consider the evidence vs just blackwashing off the top of your biases.

Guy Malone and Joe Jordan have done ground breaking research into these issues in the field of UFO abductions.

That's A FACT.

Folks can choose to ignore the FACTS they present with their documentation, if they wish.

I've just never found DENIAL OF REALITY a particularly effective survival habit. More the opposite.
.

FireMoon


Seriously, actually sit and read back out aloud some of the statements you have posted and then ask yourself, do I personally, have a single shred of credible evidence to back this all up that isn't based on what someone else told me I should believe?

First its ATS, you could say that about 80% of the threads.

And when talking such a subjective topic as "abductions" aren't all "reasonable" explanations out the window.

Either its a real thing, or people are crazy.

If they are crazy, thats one thing, but if something real is going on isn't anything in the realm of possibility at that point?

I mean, time travelers, Aliens, Men in black, Dimensional beings, government, Unicorns and Faries... Are not all possibilities equal absurd and possible once you reached a point to discuss Abductions as a real thing?

reply to post by BO XIAN


Thanks for posting all of this - I completely agree with your research.

If only one other person wakes up to the evil that has been perpetrated on the world - in the hopes that "I'm special" I"m an alien abductee" - and the very simple truth comes out.

Jesus said "I am the truth, the light, and the way" no man comes to God except through Jesus Christ.

satan is a liar, and vanity is one of his most favorite sins.

FireMoon
With the greatest of respect to the OP this isn't opinion or considered research, . . .

I hope you aren't getting your definition of "research" from some DAFFYNITIONARY.

It certainly DOES qualify as research

Perhaps you are unaware of the basically 2 routes to discovery . . .

whether discovery of truth, a new principle, a new natural law, whatever . . .

1. One route is the route associated with the Hebrews. Genesis says

ADAM KNEW EVE . . . as in sexual intimacy.

2. The other route is associated with the Greeks . . . as in dissection . . . into smaller and smaller parts.

I suspect your wife or partner would much prefer that you knew her, discovered her, explored her after the fashion of the Hebrews instead of slicing and dicing her body into smaller and smaller parts.

3. Route 1 has also become known as the PHENOMENOLOGICAL methodology.

4. Route 2 has become known as the "scientific method."

There's many things that the "scientific method" is unsuited to explore, research with.

The scientific method doesn't work well with learning more about subjective phenomena related to LOVE between individuals.

My Dissertation used both methods. That makes for a more robust understanding and discovery.

In the case of Guy Malone and Joe Jordan's RESEARCH . . . Joe particularly relied on a tried and tested MUFON questionnaire methodology. Interviewees are interviewed with a particular sequence of questions, items to complete. The form and structure is standardized so that comparisons can be made across many individuals.

That IS RESEARCH and it's a very good research methodology. So on that score, your assertion is BRAZENLY FALSE.

Guy Malone's research has also included high level scholars doing extensive literature search into ancient languages; ancient texts; root word meanings; archeology; etc.

THAT TOO IS QUALITY RESEARCH of a high order.

Tom Horn and Chris Putnam in EXO-VATICANNA did extensive literature research as well as many interviews of many experts. They have 10's of thousands of pages available in their documentation--much of it available on their free DVD.

Certainly you CAN label black/white; up/down; evil/good and whatever other label game you wish.

However, to call QUALITY RESEARCH non-research only leaves your assertion looking foolish.

Of course, those with the same biases as you may well jump on your bandwagon. That won't, however, DENY IGNORANCE but will, instead, perpetuate it.

reply to post by benrl


No, there's a huge gulf between, "I had a weird experience I cannot as yet assimilate and understand and here's what happened" and " I felt it was satanic experience".. Satanic experience means absolutely nothing in logically provable definable terms and yet, claims to be absolute in its' meaning.

I hate to trot out the old clichés however. in the USA people are sent to the execution chamber on a whole lot less evidence than than there is for some seriously weird stuff happening in our world that isn't demonstrably human at its' source.

if you start out looking for angels and demons you will find them in every last crevice of our creation, that doesn't mean there's a single shred of evidence to support their existence. There are at least, decent photos and films of weird things flying around skies and on more than few occasions, actual physical residue left behind. There is at least some sort of baseline to work from, a baseline that is added to daily by new experiences. There's enough pseudo science flying around without adding to the pantheon of whibble by starting talking about the "spiritual" unless you do so and make it absolutely clear it is your singular view and experience you are referring to and should NOT be extrapolated to include anyone else.

That is what those on here have made plain time and time again, when they have shared those experiences in some of the more esoteric of threads.

FireMoon
reply to post by benrl

 

No, there's a huge gulf between, "I had a weird experience I cannot as yet assimilate and understand and here's what happened" and " I felt it was satanic experience".. Satanic experience means absolutely nothing in logically provable definable terms and yet, claims to be absolute in its' meaning.

I hate to trot out the old clichés however. in the USA people are sent to the execution chamber on a whole lot less evidence than than there is for some seriously weird stuff happening in our world that isn't demonstrably human at its' source.

if you start out looking for angels and demons you will find them in every last crevice of our creation, that doesn't mean there's a single shred of evidence to support their existence. There are at least, decent photos and films of weird things flying around skies and on more than few occasions, actual physical residue left behind. There is at least some sort of baseline to work from, a baseline that is added to daily by new experiences. There's enough pseudo science flying around without adding to the pantheon of whibble by starting talking about the "spiritual" unless you do so and make it absolutely clear it is your singular view and experience you are referring to and should NOT be extrapolated to include anyone else.

That is what those on here have made plain time and time again, when they have shared those experiences in some of the more esoteric of threads.

Right its not like every culture doesn't have some kind of Succubus/fairy/demon/mischievous being myth that Aliens and UFO happen to match.

Coming in the night, sexual things done, etc.

This is one topic, where open mindedness might be best.

Once you have ruled out things like Sleep Paralysis and want to take the topic on a subjective angle I guess it has to fit in your world view?

Frankly Little green men traveling light years to shove a probe up someone is just as Nuts as Angels and Demons.

Don't get the disdain for discussion of such matters, but hey I guess we should just stick to your preconceived notions on the topic?

reply to post by benrl


Read the title at the top of this forum...Aliens and UFOs...so most of us try and self police ourselves by sticking to that and making it very clear when we wander into the realms of the sub atomic, "Key kids, this is just my personal take, go find out for yourselves"

I hate to be the barer of such news however here's the reality of the situation. The Evangelical alliance has policy of trying to subvert forums such as this to their own ends and turn the whole discussion round to discussing the topics they wish discussed and side lining anything that doesn't fit their agenda. That's not supposition that's based on the minutes of their own meetings going back to the early 1980s. So yes, when i see this sort of thread I do indeed "Roll my eyes and think, here we go again".

reply to post by FireMoon


What a paradox

. . . a respondent

obviously very hostile

to anyone else's perspective not his/her own . . .

VERY DOGMATICALLY HOSTILE

as though their DOGMA had some sort of SUPREMELY PERFECT, FINAL AND COMPREHENSIVE "scientific" basis.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Perhaps you'd do well to familiarize yourself with this document:

EXPOSING THE MYTHS OF “SETTLED SCIENCE:”

www.youtube.com...


Also . . . you sound addicted to that old HYPER TYPE I ERROR-AVERSION.

One would THINK that someone sooooooooooooooo DOGMATICALLY addicted to the dogma that the

"Scientific method" is the only road to TRULY TUREST TRUE TRUTH

would be more alert to THE SCIENTIFIC FACT

that a slavish obsessive addition to avoiding a TYPE I ERROR

AUTOMATICALLY AND virtually INEXORABLY set themselves up to get bit in the rear by a TYPE II ERROR--which, actually can be JUST AS DEADLY as a TYPE I ERROR.

It's always mystified me how folks soooooooooooooo strident about the "Scientific Method" IS THE ONLY route to truth

are so persistently relentless in DEMONSTRATING seeming cluelessness about the dynamic between the TYPE I ERROR VS TYPE II ERROR phenomenon.

= = = =

In terms of this thread . . . You are welcome to ignore the evidence from the 500 cases.

You are welcome to whistle by the grave yard.

You are welcome to think that politicos in DC are out for the interests of "the little people" and the "useless eaters."

You are welcome to pretend that there is no UN Agenda 21.

You are welcome to pretend that all UFO sightings are Chinese lanterns.

You are well able to pretend that Jesus was a figment of ancient imaginations.

You are well able to pretend that a great romp in the hay is a sure sign of everlasting love.

You are evidently well able to pretend that you can live based totally on trusting exclusively those bits of data in your daily life proven by 12 peer reviewed scientific journals and to totally reject any less supported information.

That latter one would be an impossibility but the dogmatic slavishly addicted to irrational dogma rarely seem to be able to face the facts of reality on that score. They just don't seem to be able to wrap their rigid narrow biases around the realities involved sufficiently to begin to understand it. Mystifying.

I wonder if one could live even one hour that way. Certainly 24 hours won't work.

In the case of this thread . . . we have 500 people saying that a particular type of experience was TRUE for them . . . some saying it's repeatedly proven true over years.

Some of them changed their cosmologies 180 degrees from what they were beforehand.

Perhaps you are a poor psychologist/sociologist. People don't change their cosmologies that easily and quickly and wholesale WITHOUT DRAMATIC REASON--SOLID REASON.

Just doesn't happen.

Certainly you can DENY the realities of those 500 individuals.

You can deny that oxygen is useful for living things.

You can deny that loving feelings between individuals helps relationships last.

You can deny lots of things.

Such denials do NOT change the REALITIES 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

They just make the blatherer look and sound silly.

reply to post by FireMoon


I barely even know what the Evangelical Alliance is.

Sheesh.

This thread arose out of another one which arose out of a probable abduction experience in Italy.

I cited Guy Malone et al as a resource for helping describe, articulate the likely factors involved etc. etc. etc.

Some find that line of investigation and explanation helpful.

Perhaps there are gardens where fertilizer is desired. This thread doesn't need any.

We are well able to have mutually respectful dialogue without dogmatic hollow blathering from a silly oppositional religion of scientism perspective screeching irrationally.

Actually, "Paradox" is a song we could never manage to convince Dave Brock to play as part of the set when we used to play with him.

The story that I'm telling you
Something that you can do
Ask yourself and try to find the answer
See the signs they're always there
But you know you never care
You're always looking for another reason
Try to reach it's not too far
See it as you really are
Ask yourself to try and find the answer
Always, always it's the same thing
Try it, try it, you just can't win
Circles, circles spinning round
People, people always bring you down and down
Round and round you go


Freaky that eh? Must be some kind of "spiritual message" there eh what, old chaps?

reply to post by benrl


Your logical comments . . . with their above average perceptiveness and articulation

ARE A GREAT THRILL to me.

I don't seem to get much of that quality of response on many of my threads.

I wish more folks could wrap their minds around your assertions. They seem self-evident and even foundationally basic, to me.

Yet, I know from years hereon that many folks simply CANNOT or WILL NOT see such obvious insights and facts.

Is it a function of too little critical thinking taught in schools? What?

The religion of scientism has pretended that many true things are false for a long time.

When they end up with the UFO egg on their faces . . . how will that help their status?

Sigh.

Thx much.

reply to post by FireMoon


Not sure what that post is supposed to convey other than some sort of whine.

It may have served well to dodge the issues I posted about relative to the thread topic, however.

imho, . . . I'm convinced, that Sooner or later . . . everyone on the planet will

HAVE

to decide whether the UFO critters are wonderful or evil. And once decided . . . most may not have a chance to alter their choice . . . even when faced with very serious consequences of said choice.

Sluffing the issues off because of a narrow, rigid, dogmatic perspective seems most unwise, to my experiences in life to this point.