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Pushing Flu Vaccines, and the Codex Alimentarius

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posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 12:30 PM
Flu season usually starts in late October or November in the Northern Hemisphere. Not this year. Flu season is here now - over a month early. So governments, agencies, doctors and businesses in the US and Canada are pushing their vaccines.

When flu season starts early, it means there's a new strain we have no immunity against and it's ready to spread. No one is talking much about new strains except the FAO (the UN Food and Agriculture Organization), probably because there's no vaccines yet. After sending out a warning about bird flu, the FAO is calling on the international community to be vigilant for any signs of H5N1 and the new H7N9 avian flu.

Early flu cases have doctors concerned

...Dr. William Schaffner, chair of Vanderbilt University's infectious disease department, is concerned the flu may get an early running start and continue to spread rapidly from there.

"When it shows up in September, we wonder whether it's a harbinger of a more serious influenza season to come," said Schaffner.

The flu season usually begins in late October or early November.

"If it begins early, like we are seeing, it usually means that it's ready to be transmitted in the population," said Schaffner.

Maybe we'll just have a bad flu season - or the dreaded pandemic might actually materialize. Either way, the pieces are falling into place for the Codex Alimentarius - corporate control of our global food supply. The Codex is supported by the UN, World Health Organization and FAO, not to mention the G20.

The reasoning for full control under the Codex Alimentarius hinges on the idea that our food supply should "protected" from exposure to wild animals and the larger environment, especially chicken and pigs. So no more backyard gardens or chickens or open markets. Our food supply chain will be "restructured" under the Codex Alimentarius.

The strategy will work. People get scared when the dying starts - and it WILL start. When it does, government sanctioned snake oil sells best.

Also see:
NUTRICIDE: The Killing Camps of Codex Alimentarius

Codex Alimentarius (Mandate That Will Starve 3 Billion People…)

Pandemic Threat to Justify Corporate Takeover of Global Food Supply

edit on 18/9/13 by soficrow because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 01:54 PM
You have to wonder about the description for this on their web site.

The Codex Alimentarius Commission, established by FAO and WHO in 1963 develops harmonised international food standards, guidelines and codes of practice to protect the health of the consumers and ensure fair practices in the food trade. The Commission also promotes coordination of all food standards work undertaken by international governmental and non-governmental organizations. For more information see here.

"the consumer"? Not "consumers"? So is everyone not consuming the same thing? That's just plain odd phraseology.

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 02:43 PM
reply to post by soficrow

I'm an RN that works at a state psychiatric facility in WI. Every year starting in Sept., there's a huge push for patients and staff to get their "flu shots" - It's the middle of Sept. and not a word of it yet.

I don't think psych patients are high on their list to save.

What, with all the FEMA camps pushing to be emergency stocked within 48 hours - especially in the pacific rim region, really makes one wonder what's going on, and what are they planning.

PS - I am not a believer in the flu shot, and would quit working if they made the shot mandatory. People don't understand what the UN, agenda 21, and the rest is really about.

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 03:58 PM

You have to wonder about the description for this on their web site.

The Codex Alimentarius Commission, established by FAO and WHO in 1963 develops harmonised international food standards, guidelines and codes of practice to protect the health of the consumers and ensure fair practices in the food trade. The Commission also promotes coordination of all food standards work undertaken by international governmental and non-governmental organizations. For more information see here.

"the consumer"? Not "consumers"? So is everyone not consuming the same thing? That's just plain odd phraseology.

It says "consumers" right there lol. Right where you said.

Do you know how unbelievably hard it would be to keep people from growing their own food. Do you know how many people would end up dead or prosecuted if it did.

This plan wont work and neither is it contributing to the spread of the flu.

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 07:12 PM
reply to post by Happy1

I don't think psych patients are high on their list to save.

What, with all the FEMA camps pushing to be emergency stocked within 48 hours - especially in the pacific rim region, really makes one wonder what's going on, and what are they planning.

Nope. Psych patients aren't high on the "save" list at all - but probably up there on the euthanasia one. Hmm. What's going on? Plans for all contingencies no doubt - anything's an opportunity if you play it right.

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 07:24 PM
September is usually the time for flu shots to start being pushed. We got ours at the beginning of the month but we didn't really see a major interest in them until this week now that the temperature has dropped. I will say that two of our patients have already had confirmed cases of the flu which is a little odd for this early in the year.

posted on Sep, 18 2013 @ 07:38 PM
reply to post by TheLotLizard

Do you know how unbelievably hard it would be to keep people from growing their own food. Do you know how many people would end up dead or prosecuted if it did.

This plan wont work and neither is it contributing to the spread of the flu.

Most diseases with pandemic potential are zoonoses (diseases spread from animals to people), including swine and bird flu. Most food in Asia and Africa (for example) is grown and raised in peoples' back yards and sold in open markets. These practices are blamed for the emergence and spread of new diseases like bird flu (even though factory farms are far worse culprits). In comparison, few cities in the US and Canada allow people to raise chickens or sell homegrown and homemade foodstuffs, and food sold commercially is highly regulated. Backyard and small farmers in such "developed" nations are greatly restricted if not prohibited from selling their homegrown food.

The master plan is to "restructure" food production and marketing world-wide, and "harmonize" every nations' laws and regulations with each others' and the Codex Alimentarius. The pitch is for "biosecurity" - the big lie is that controlled food production and marketing will help prevent new diseases from emerging and spreading.

FAO has issued a new warning to the international community that the H7N9 and H5N1 avian influenza viruses continue to pose serious threats to human and animal health, especially in view of the upcoming flu season.

...“We need keep our eyes on the bigger picture of promoting healthy food systems, especially when it comes to animal production and marketing,” ...Restructuring can create healthier, safer markets by developing facilities that employ proper food safety and hygiene measures....”

The whole idea is pure bs and dead wrong of course. Factory farming is well known for creating and spreading antibiotic resistant diseases, as well as creating and spreading weird mutations, hybrids and all-knew virulent diseases. But ...

Although factory farming has been a target of much criticism, it has its defenders. Marie Gramer, a veterinarian at the University of Minnesota, said enclosed farm buildings offer "biosecurity" from pathogens carried by wild animals, including birds and wild pigs.

edit on 18/9/13 by soficrow because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:07 AM

As our world and it's economy becomes more globalized, more "undeveloped" nations are demanding their piece of the pie. They have to sign "free trade" agreements if they want to export to other countries. "Free trade" agreements are designed to facilitate corporate globalization and global corporatism - and specify that the signatory nation's laws and regulations be standardized and harmonized with other signatory nations (to benefit global corporations' trading activities). Biosafety and biosecurity are the flags for globalizing the food industry, including production, marketing and sales. Not coincidentally, biosafety and biosecurity are the stated reasons for implementing the Codex Alimentarius.

Biosecurity is a set of preventive measures designed to reduce the risk of transmission of infectious diseases, quarantined pests, invasive alien species, living modified organisms. ...Although security is usually thought of in terms of "Guards, Gates, and Guns", biosecurity encompasses much more than that and requires the cooperation of scientists, technicians, policy makers, security engineers, and law enforcement officials.

Global trade and travel, technological revolutions and industrialized farming all contribute to the rapid evolution of new pests and diseases - and their spread around the world. It's a big problem that's already created huge epidemics and will result in a killer pandemic one day soon.

...Agricultural contours of most countries have been changing fast in response to increasing demand for veritable food and agricultural products, globalization and technological revolutions, and so have been changing the pests and diseases. Epidemics of Avian Flu caused by the viral strain H5N1 (which can also infect human beings) and the resultant devastations in recent years amply underpin the urgency of creating and managing a global biosecurity umbrella.

The main drivers for emerging diseases are: (i) Movements of people and agricultural goods in trade, (ii) Agricultural change: intensification, diversification and globalization, (iii) Evolution: more interaction, more recombination, more selection, and (iv) Weather: extreme events and climate change.

The UN's Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), who promote the Codex Alimentarius, also frontline the rules for international trade in food including the standardization and harmonization of laws and regulations around the globe.

Introduction to Biosecurity

Biosecurity is a strategic and integrated approach that encompasses the policy and regulatory frameworks (including instruments and activities) that analyse and manage risks in the sectors of food safety, animal life and health, and plant life and health, including associated environmental risk. ...

The International Portal on Food Safety, Animal and Plant Health

September 2005: One tool developed by FAO, in association with the organizations responsible for international standard setting in sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) matters, to assist in providing information to countries to achieve Biosecurity is the International Portal on Food Safety, Animal and Plant Health. This new website provides a single access point for the latest version of international and national standards, regulations, and other official materials relating to SPS measures in food and agriculture (including fisheries and forestry). ...

...There really is much, much more information - and a whole lot of legitimate questions.

edit on 19/9/13 by soficrow because: format

posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 09:49 AM
reply to post by soficrow

Well it seems that every year the prospects of the "new flu season" keeps starting earlier and early, I guess since the last scaremongering pandemic that added a new twist to the flu that can be transmitted year around.

Sadly for the big pharma the vaccine prove to be no so popular and they lost a lot of money last year as the flu count was not high even with the propaganda.

In my neck of the woods in GA we kept hearing of cases here and there, but they most have the cases quarantine, (sarcasm) because it was no flu in site at all, even people that work in the local hospitals said that the flu was a no show last year and vaccination was not high either.

The flu is going to show regardless and we all know that new strengths of flu will infect people regardless of the latest vaccination.

So they are starting early to make sure that big pharma get to make some profits this year, but remember that todays flu shot is yesterday flu season.

I have no gotten a flu vaccine since the 80s, the last time I got a full blown flu infection was in the late 90s and while sick for a week in bed I didn't required hospital visit.

But for those that are of compromised immune system the flu shot can save their life. I guess is and should be a matter of what is best for the person depending their overall health.

posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 10:01 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Thanks marg - I don't worry much about Big Pharma and their vaccine machine. They've got animal vaccines sewed up and they're not too worried about people any way. Me, I think the big move in play is standardizing laws and regs for the global food industry. Not a bad thing imho for corporate activities but small farmers will be the collateral damage, along with our access to 'real food' and our health.

Good to hear from you btw. Hope you're well and happy.

posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 10:29 AM
reply to post by soficrow

I am doing fine and I hope you are doing well also, yes I am very worry about what big manufacturers of food products like GMOs are doing, I read an article from doctor Mercola on how the big pharma and GMOs corporations are now going after him and his web site to discredit his news letters and articles on vaccination and GMOs, it seems that while is not laws that is forcing us to take big pharma and GMOs products it is a new tactic that they are using beside buying out politicians for protection, now they are going after any health or natural medicine web sites to troll and discredict any articles that affect them specially by name.

Very soon I will not be surprised is laws are passed to stop any anti GMO or big pharma exposures.

We all know that the control of natural resources from water, air, food and natural medicine has been an agenda for the profiteers for quite some time.

But while in the US we have been poisoned a littler bit at a time by our government and those that control our food sources, in Europe is been measures in place to avoid a take over of their food supplies by contamination of bioengineer foods.

Still creating treaties to bring in the European nations into partnership is the same as to open the door for the manufactures of food to poison their good supplies, because money buy politicians all the time and nations in Europe are not exempt from that type corruption.

posted on Sep, 19 2013 @ 08:49 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Thanks marg. Just a few more fun facts...

So the FAO warns that H7N9, H5N1 and other bird flu's continue to circulate in poultry, stipulating that H7N9 causes no clinical signs in birds and is therefore very difficult to detect in poultry, and goes on to emphasize that countries need to invest in improving the way they market and sell poultry.

Bird flu viruses H7N9 and H5N1 continue to pose threats to health: FAO

…“Bird flu viruses continue to circulate in poultry. Efforts must continue and be strengthened, not only in affected countries, but also in neighbouring states and areas with strong trade linkages. This is especially true for H7N9, since it causes no clinical signs in birds and is therefore very difficult to detect in poultry.”

…In the longer-term fight against H7N9 and other viruses, FAO and USAID are urging countries to invest in improving the way they market and sell poultry.

“We need keep our eyes on the bigger picture of promoting healthy food systems, especially when it comes to animal production and marketing,” Lubroth said.

In the meantime, the USDA just approved China-to-America sale of processed chicken. “At first, China will only be able to process chicken that has been slaughtered in the U.S. or other certified countries.” Phew. Erm. Not.

How Chicken Is Killing the Planet
Processed chicken is already bad for the environment, workers and consumers -- and it's about to get a lot worse.

Earlier this month, while you were busy sneaking out of your empty office, hoping nobody would notice your starting the holiday weekend early, the USDA was also doing something it was hoping nobody would notice. It was green-lighting the sale of Chinese processed American chicken. As Politico explained, “U.S. officials have given the thumbs-up to four Chinese poultry plants, paving the way for the country to send processed chicken to American markets.” But while, “at first, China will only be able to process chicken that has been slaughtered in the U.S. or other certified countries,” that should not be a comfort to fans of the McNugget, Campbell’s chicken soup, or any other processed chicken product.

To start, that a chicken was born and bred on U.S. soil is no guarantee of its quality. It is, however, a good indicator of several other things, starting with the bird’s short, miserable life. The vast majority of the almost 300 million egg-laying hens raised in the U.S. every year are kept in cages too small for them to spread their wings, and this practice is beginning to take hold in raising our 8 billion broilers (the ones we eat) as well. The broilers are fed a diet laden with arsenic and antibiotics, while egg-laying hens are often packed into barns so full of birds, feathers and feces, that, as we learned last month, an employee could literally get shot in one without anyone even noticing.

Don’t be comforted by the fact that chicken was processed in the U.S. either. Between slaughter and nugget-ization, chicken carcasses endure a host of perversions, making chicken less of a food and more of a food-like substance. They are injected with saltwater solutions to add weight and taste. Their bodies are mechanically separated through a processed called “ Advanced Meat Recovery,” stripping the meat off leftover bones and turning it into the poultry version of pink slime. The resulting goop will be washed in ammonia to kill its bacteria population. It will then be cooked into something tasty and sold to you, the unwitting customer. And yes, this process does actually impact the food on your plate: According to a 2009 USDA study, 87 percent of chicken cadavers test positive for E. coli, feces’ favorite bacteria, just before they are packaged and sent to a store near you.

Then Forbes asks the billion $ question: Is China's Healthcare Market Opening Too Little, Too Late?

And just so you know…

Americans are 110 times more likely to die from contaminated food than terrorism, with 1 in 6 sickened every year at an annual cost to the economy of nearly $80 billion

edit on 19/9/13 by soficrow because: wd

posted on Sep, 20 2013 @ 09:13 AM
reply to post by soficrow

People have short time memories I guess they forgot the wave of bird virus disease that took over China and that we only got to learn about it here and there with pictures of Chinese people wearing mask while walking in the streets, but China been china we will never know what really happen in that country and how the Bird flu really started.

People need to stay away from processed food, but sadly processed food is cheaper and easy to cook and for some reason most of them taste good enough.

As I am getting ready to go to Florida in my 1 hour and half ride to get raw fresh milk and eggs I wonder about what is going on in this nation that I have to drive this long for my choices of health food items.

Sad days ahead of us due to corporate profiteers inundating our food markets with poison when they themselves get their choices of the best food money can buy at the expenses of those that can not afford to get better choices.

posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 11:22 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Looks like the deal is done, the ball is rolling and it's all moving forward now.

Here's how it's gonna play:

- China gets credit for developing the H7N9 vaccine (H7 vaccines have never worked before but somehow, they did it)

- China will get big vaccine ca$h - probably some manufacturing, definitely for patents, intellectual property and all the rest of it

- In return, China will close all her live poultry markets, sacrifice her grassroots poultry industry and open the door to industrialized factory farming because it's "safer"

- With the planet's largest poultry market under control, enter the Codex Alimentarius

The Latest 2 Plays

1. On Saturday, October 26, 2013, China announced they have a vaccine for the H7N9 bird flu virus - the first vaccine ever developed by Chinese scientists. ...China makes history with H7N9 bird flu vaccine

2. On Thursday, October 31, 2013 the Lancet released a report saying Live Poultry Markets (LPM's) are responsible for H7N9 bird flu's spread - and that closing the LPM's is essential when H7N9 reappears again this flu season. The Lancet report states that infection rates plummeted and disappeared after the markets were closed last April/May - the last case reported was May 8. In fact, flu is seasonal and flu season was over by that time. Duh. Also, NO studies have found significant infection rates in chickens at poultry markets (usually much lower, like 1 positive sample out of 53) - and virtually none on poultry farms.

But the new Lancet report is a game-changer, and unlike other boring flu news everyone is reporting this one. Because shutting down China's LPM's will destroy that nations poultry industry, open the market to global players - and open the door for the Codex Alimentarius.

Effect of closure of live poultry markets on poultry-to-person transmission of avian influenza A H7N9 virus: an ecological study

85 human cases of avian influenza A H7N9 virus infection were reported in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Huzhou, and Nanjing by June 7, 2013, of which 60 were included in our main analysis. [Ed. Why only 60 out of 80?] Closure of LPMs reduced the mean daily number of infections by 99% (95% credibility interval 93—100%) in Shanghai, by 99% (92—100%) in Hangzhou, by 97% (68—100%) in Huzhou, and by 97% (81—100%) in Nanjing. [Ed. Of course. Flu season was over.]...

...LPM closure should be rapidly implemented in areas where the virus is identified in live poultry or people.

Poultry markets in China 'are vast bird flu reservoir'

...The report, published in the Lancet, ...said the future of the markets, a millennia-old culture in China, needed to be reassessed.

"Our findings confirm that LPM closure is a highly effective intervention to prevent human disease and protect public health"...

...the H7N9 virus has continued to circulate and now has the potential to re-emerge in a new outbreak of human disease this winter."*

Based on these findings the authors conclude that the best course of action to minimise the spread of the virus ahead of the expected surge in infections in the autumn would be sustained LPM closure in areas of high risk of disease spread and immediate LPM closure in areas where the virus appears in the future.
Writing in a linked Comment, Guillaume Fournié and Dirk U Pfeiffer from the Royal Veterinary College, London, UK say, "Although LPM closure in specific circumstances can effectively interrupt human exposure to avian influenza A H7N9 virus, if applied alone this measure is unlikely to eliminate the zoonotic threat…The focus should move beyond detection of human cases and emergency response towards prevention at the infection source. A multisectoral approach would be needed first to identify and then target the inter-related social, economic, cultural, biological, and environmental drivers underlying disease emergence and spread…The motivation behind adoption of some trading practices and factors affecting purchasing behaviour of consumers needs to be considered…A multisectoral approach leading to restructuring rather than destabilisation of the LPM system would be more likely to result in a sustainable reduction in the risk of disease spread while also protecting livelihoods and food security."

On the other hand...

...they found one positive sample out of 53. Considering that H7N9 doesn't make birds visibly sick, you'd think it would be spreading rapidly. Yet it remains scarce and unobtrusive.

May 13, 2013.'s important to realize that influenza is seasonal and China is now moving into the summer months when flu incidence would be expected to drop...


"Overall, the evidence, in terms of epidemiology and virology, suggests that it is a pure poultry-to-human transmission, and that controlling [the epidemic in humans] will therefore depend on controlling the epidemic in poultry."

or the World Health Organization, pre-October 31 Lancet:

[url=]At this point it is not known how persons are becoming infected (with avian influenza A(H7N9) virus). Some of the confirmed cases had contact with animals or with environments where animals are housed. The virus has now been found in chickens, ducks, and captive-bred pigeons at live bird markets near locations where cases have been reported. The possibility of an animal source of the infection is being investigated, as is the possibility of person-to-person transmission.

edit on 30/10/13 by soficrow because: format

posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 11:28 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Here's an important overview (just read between the lines).

…“We are just heading into re-emergence in November and December,” ...“It will of course peak at Chinese New Year because it’s the time of maximum poultry production.”

Chinese New Year is on Jan. 31 next year.

...When the Ministry of Agriculture tested 68,060 samples collected from poultry markets, farms and slaughterhouses, they found only 46 -- or 0.07 percent -- tested positive for the virus, the official Xinhua news agency reported in April.

When researchers from the University of Hong Kong conducted their own survey based on 1,341 specimens from chickens, ducks and other birds, as well as 1,006 water and fecal samples from bird markets, they found H7 viruses in 60, or 2.6 percent of them, according to a study published in the journal Nature in August.

“There’s competing interests in China between economic development and human health, and there’s continual pressure on these two essentially competing interests at all levels of government,” said Hong Kong University’s Cowling.

…Six percent of blood specimens from 396 poultry workers in China were found to have antibodies against H7N9, according to a Sept. 18 report in the Journal of Infectious Diseases. That suggests dozens of people in contact with farmed birds have been exposed to the virus without necessarily getting sick. None of the 1,129 people from the general population had H7N9 antibodies.

...Cooler weather will enable viral particles to remain viable for longer in the environment, such as in the air, on surfaces or in water

And this one, from the CDC:

Mild Illness in Avian Influenza A(H7N9) Virus–Infected Poultry Worker, Huzhou, China, April 2013

During April 2013 in China, mild respiratory symptoms developed in 1/61 workers who had culled influenza A(H7N9) virus–infected poultry. Laboratory testing confirmed A(H7N9) infection in the worker and showed that the virus persisted longer in sputum than pharyngeal swab samples. Pharyngeal swab samples from the other workers were negative for A(H7N9) virus.

Our epidemiologic investigation and clinical review showed that mild upper respiratory symptoms developed in a man 6 days after he had contact with influenza A(H7N9) virus–infected poultry. We found that sputum samples from this patient remained positive for A(H7N9) virus longer than pharyngeal swab samples. This finding is in agreement with those of Chen et al. (10) and Lo et al. (13). Thus, it is a limitation of our screening of the patient’s 60 coworkers that we did not collect sputum specimens. Because of this, we may have missed identifying other mild infections among the workers who culled poultry.
The patient in this report is 1 of only a few adults with mild respiratory symptoms who have been confirmed to be infected with avian influenza A(H7N9) virus (8). Our investigation strongly suggests that he became infected with the virus after working for 3 hours as poultry culler in a contaminated wet market. Future investigations of persons exposed to influenza A(H7N9)–infected poultry may consider testing for the virus in sputum samples rather than throat swab samples.

posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:23 AM
I don't understand how these organizations can think that big business can do a better job of growing food. One Oncovirus that causes cancer is in chicken and commercially grown chicken the worst, passed on from bird to bird by their all being couped up together. I wouldn't worry about this virus, cooking for a long time kills viruses. Quick sauteing does not kill viruses, it takes a while of heat to kill them. Make sure to clean up well and don't process fresh veggies where you clean your chicken. Antibiotic soaps do nothing to kill this virus.

I am not trying to scare anyone, I am trying to inform people that bacteria is not the only problem in our food supply. I am not sure what companion foods would be good with a meal containing an Oncovirus yet. I suppose strawberries contain a chemical that boosts antiviral activity by increasing some specialized cells that kill viruses, but it also lowers bacterial defenses. I am sure that there are other things that will also work, but I haven't seen any testing related to these. The ones doing the majority of the testing are mostly focusing on cures that they can't patent. I guess you can't patent a fruit or veggie that grows in nature.

This is just one example of oncoviruses, some viruses also kill cancer by targeting the rapid growth of cancer and it kills the cancer cells. I don't think a doctor can distinguish as to which sort of virus you have. The body will not kill this virus till it has done it's job killing the cancer. Strange info I have been learning recently.

If we keep the energy levels of our bodies appropriately up it can help us fight many things. The problem is that some of the viruses like this extra energy, enough to power their growth easily. I cannot distinguish between the good and bad yet on when high energy levels help in this case, I need more research to study. target healthy people more than people who are moderately healthy. Either way, too weak is a problem. Energy needs to be boosted in these people to kill the virus.

I don't know how we got so screwed up. We believed the ones that profit off our illnesses over the passed on knowledge of our ancestors. We ignored our parents and grandparents knowledge because they had no degrees or certification. In college, you are conditioned to learn what the field you are in desires, the companies desire people that can make them money, not reduce their income by telling others the whole truth. Trade secrets.... Patents.... Intellectual property..... A truly advanced civilization would have none of these.

posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 08:29 PM
The writing seems to be on the wall for sure. There is no stopping the corporate march, is there? They fool around with our food and then want to control our health. In the past I've had to take flu shots, but I'm not a fan anymore.

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