Video: Disabled Veteran kicked off U.S. Airways flight

reply to post by CarbonBase


That's a really interesting suggestion. That's a lot of extra work/training/money on the airline's part, but I don't think it's unfeasible to implement some time in the future.

Oh yea, someone goes into one of the most brutal wars the United States has seen, manages to survive (most likely with extreme mental trauma) and people want to give this guy a hard time because he wants his dog in the seat next to him, where it isn't hurting or bothering anyone.

I don't understand how people are ok with this guy putting his life on the line for their homeland, but sitting his dog in a seat on an airplane just crosses the line.

I'm glad he gave them so much crap, I wish he would have grabbed up that moron flight attendant and beat the brakes off him.

Leave it to the stupid people to make a mountain out of a molehill. I can see where your time served for your country gets you.

reply to post by Vortiki


So now both disabled people and Vietnam vets get their own rules and don't have to obey the same rules as the rest of us.

The FAA mandates ALL animals in the cabin, service animals or not, have to be on the floor for takeoff and landing. Are you going to pay the fine, and it's a big one, the airline gets when the undercover FAA inspector sees that happening?

What is so hard to understand that this had nothing to do with him being a vet, or the dog on the plane? It's a matter of safety and offering the rules. Or should we just throw then out for certain groups of people and let them do what they want?

Zaphod58

 

The FAA mandates ALL animals in the cabin, service animals or not, have to be on the floor for takeoff and landing. Are you going to pay the fine, and it's a big one, the airline gets when the undercover FAA inspector sees that happening?

I'm still waiting to see the source for that. I've looked around myself but cant find that.

reply to post by PsykoOps


14 CFR Part 121 Section 121.589. Pets must be treated as carry on baggage any time they are in the cabin, and you must follow all cabin crew instructions.

14 CFR 382 section 382.55. The service animal may occupy any seat in which the disabled person occupies, unless it would block the aisle or any evacuation route.

382.37 If the animal can not be accommodated at the seat location of the disabled person the airline shall offer a seat location, if available where the dog can be accommodated.

The airline has the right to be more stringent as well on any CFR.


The question now is how far into boarding were they. Almost done and the seat was available, or still boarding. However, he still refused to obey crew instructions and they had every right to deplane him.

Zaphod58
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

14 CFR Part 121 Section 121.589. Pets must be treated as carry on baggage any time they are in the cabin, and you must follow all cabin crew instructions.

This section deals with baggage. Service dog is not a pet either. My source doesn't have this. What source do you use? I'm reading this

14 CFR 382 section 382.55. The service animal may occupy any seat in which the disabled person occupies, unless it would block the aisle or any evacuation route.

Which it was doing. It was occupying a seat. Also the .gov site I looked at doesn't have this part in section 382.55 either. Again from the same source as above. Are you sure you didn't use the wrong number? My source says this is the section that deals with airport facilities. Not flights.

382.37 If the animal can not be accommodated at the seat location of the disabled person the airline shall offer a seat location, if available where the dog can be accommodated.

Again I have to ask for a source as this section doesn't even excist on mine.

§ 382.35 May carriers require passengers with a disability to sign waivers or releases?
Subpart C—Information for Passengers
§ 382.41 What flight-related information must carriers provide to qualified individuals with a disability?

PsykoOps
14 CFR 382 section 382.55. The service animal may occupy any seat in which the disabled person occupies, unless it would block the aisle or any evacuation route.
Which it was doing. It was occupying a seat.

Try reading it again, you apparently missed this bit

The service animal may occupy any seat in which the disabled person occupies

So your animal may sit on your lap.... not another seat

Fair enough bruce. I still cannot find that anywhere. Also that by itself would be impossible as the service dog wouldn't be occupying a seat if it were on someone's lap.

This may not be official, but it looks like a good resource.
servicedogs

And airlines expect you to place your feet, or allow others to place their feet on your dog when they fly, by seating people in seats next to you, or making you put your dog right where YOUR feet go. This is NOT allowed, and you should never do this.

No that's not official. I dont really want to read someones opinion on this. Especially if it makes my eyes bleed fonts

reply to post by PsykoOps


I'm reading CFR 382 right now. It's "Nondiscrimination on the basis of disability in Air Travel".

CFR 382.37:

(c) If a service animal cannot be
accommodated at the seat location of the
qualified individual with a disability whom
the animal is accompanying (see
§ 382.55(a)(2)), the carrier shall offer the
passenger the opportunity to move with the
animal to a seat location, if present on the
aircraft, where the animal can be
accommodated, as an alternative to requiring
that the animal travel with checked baggage.

CFR 382.55 (2)

Carriers shall permit a service animal to
accompany a qualified individual with a
disability in any seat in which the person sits,
unless the animal obstructs an aisle or other
area that must remain unobstructed in order to
facilitate an emergency evacuation.

airconsumer.dot.gov...

382.55 states that the dog can be on his lap in the seat with him. If its not on his lap, then it has to go on the floor.

382.38 (2i)

Carriers are not required to furnish more
than one seat per ticket or to provide a seat in
a class of service other than the one the
passenger has purchased.

They are not required to provide him a seat for his dog under FAA rules, which means the dog either goes on the floor, or in his lap on his seat. They are required to give a bulkhead seat, if one is available, for the dog. If this WAS a CRJ then there is no bulkhead seat available, which means he gets the seat he had.

He was wrong. He refused to obey the rules, or the flight attendant instructions to sit the dog on the floor as required. He was lawfully removed from the flight, per crew discretion.

reply to post by Merlynn


If you want official, I suggest reading CFR 382. That's the FAA rules for transporting people with a disability.

reply to post by BristolStew


I can see the pilots position. Its a safety issue. In case of an accident or loss of altitude that dog becomes a projectile. Didnt help for him to start shouting and cursing.

reply to post by Zaphod58




We don't need airlines spokespersons to disrupt our free speech.

Your CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) so called rules even states:

382.55 Miscellaneous provisions.
(a) Carriers shall permit dogs and other
service animals used by persons with a
disability to accompany the persons on a
flight.
(1) Carriers shall accept as evidence that an
animal is a service animal identification cards,
other written documentation, presence of
harnesses or markings on harnesses, tags, or
the credible verbal assurances of the qualified
individual with a disability using the animal.
(2) Carriers shall permit a service animal to
accompany a qualified individual with a
disability in any seat in which the person sits,
unless the animal obstructs an aisle or other
area that must remain unobstructed in order to
facilitate an emergency evacuation.
(3) In the event that special information
concerning the transportation of animals
outside the continental United States is either
required to be or is provided by the carrier,
the information shall be provided to all
passengers traveling with animals outside the
continental United States with the carrier,
including those traveling with service
animals.
(b) Carriers shall not require qualified
individuals with a disability to sit on blankets.
(c) Carriers shall not restrict the movements
of persons with a disability in terminals or
require them to remain in a holding area or
other location in order to be provided
transportation, to receive assistance, or for
other purposes, or otherwise mandate separate
treatment for persons with a disability, except
as permitted or required in this part.

Zaphod58
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

I'm reading CFR 382 right now. It's "Nondiscrimination on the basis of disability in Air Travel".

CFR 382.37:

I cannot find that section at all in the 2013 version. Your version is 1999.
Also that doesn't apply since the service animal was accomodated at the passengers location.

CFR 382.55 (2)

That doesn't excist in the 2013 version. It deals exclusively with airport rules. Not flight rules.

airconsumer.dot.gov...

This is 2003 version.

He was wrong. He refused to obey the rules, or the flight attendant instructions to sit the dog on the floor as required. He was lawfully removed from the flight, per crew discretion.

You are wrong. There's no such law.

reply to post by BristolStew


And we don't need people that have no clue what the hell they're talking about trying to tell me rules for aircraft use. The dog was allowed on the plane. The passenger got disruptive and failed to follow the rules. They were removed. Disabled people don't get to disobey all the rules and make their own. Get over it.

reply to post by PsykoOps


And you need to look again. I'm looking at May 2013 14 CFR Part 382 and it deals with Air Carrier Access. It updates 382.92.

There are complaints filed with the FAA in August of 2013 about violations of 14 CFR Part 382, dealing with the Air Carrier Access Act.

Oh look, on YOUR WEBSITE, a simple search for "14 CFR Part 382" turns up "PART 382—NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY IN AIR TRAVEL".

So yeah, tell me again how I'm wrong. Care to try again?

14 CFR Part 382 from your source

This is really simple. He was on the plane with the dog. He was not discriminated against. The airline followed the rules. He failed to obey lawful instructions from the cabin crew. He was removed from the flight. The airline is not required to give him a second seat, with one ticket purchased, for the dog. They did not break the rules.

§ 382.35 May carriers require passengers with a disability to sign waivers or releases?
Subpart C—Information for Passengers
§ 382.41 What flight-related information must carriers provide to qualified individuals with a disability?

There's no section 382.37

Zaphod58
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

And you need to look again. I'm looking at May 2013 14 CFR Part 382 and it deals with Air Carrier Access. It updates 382.92.

There are complaints filed with the FAA in August of 2013 about violations of 14 CFR Part 382, dealing with the Air Carrier Access Act.

Oh look, on YOUR WEBSITE, a simple search for "14 CFR Part 382" turns up "PART 382—NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY IN AIR TRAVEL".

So yeah, tell me again how I'm wrong. Care to try again?

14 CFR Part 382 from your source

edit on 9/20/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

Obviously you cannot have a proper debate since all you do is defending a company with irrational quotes god knows from where. All you do is coming up with a line you call a rule. Don't forget to carry your book of rules with you when you go to the bus station because we will test you on how you follow your own company rules.