Video: Disabled Veteran kicked off U.S. Airways flight

BristolStew
reply to post by winofiend

 

I think Zapho is a spokesperson for the airline; let's give him the benefit of the doubt on everything he says.

edit on 17-9-2013 by BristolStew because: (no reason given)

You obviously haven't been around the boards long enough to know he's a huge contributor to ALL things related to flying and airplanes.

I don't understand why some people in this discussion are so dense. It was a safety protocol that any other disabled individual would have to comply with.

You can be thrown off a plane for not turning your phone off, some celebrities have. Are they disabled? No. Do we consider them being discriminated against as an iPhone user? No. The airlines take safety seriously, as lawsuits from plane crashes cost a lot.

BristolStew
reply to post by k21968

 

I accidentally gave you a star; this new layout is seriously messed up. Here is my answer to you, from that video, alcohol does not cause such reaction, he was sober enough to control himself to a great extent that he even apologized to the passengers and no he did not use foul language so do not claim something did not happen. In the video description, the person who took the video said that after they kicked him off the plane, the reaction from passengers was supportive towards him.


This is a service dog and not a regular pet. He is larger than the space under seat, do the math and any human being with conscious would not subject any animal to any unnecessary suffering. And I wish if you could share with us your travel adventures when you become senior citizen who is very ill to walk and had to obtain a service dog just like that old man, what would you do then?

edit on 17-9-2013 by BristolStew because: (no reason given)

He clearly said the F word at least once.

BristolStew
reply to post by k21968

 

And you need to tell the difference between an angry man and a drunk man. In today's society, anybody gets frustrated and gets angry would be labeled as lunatic and they don't even know what went with that man. Walk his shoes and learn what's going on before you judge him. I will give you a little challenge, go to New York and see how many people would help you if anything happened to you. I guarantee you it would be close to 0 that's because nobody cares and when that happens you would start acting like that old man. Nobody cared enough to stand up for him, they were just taking a video of the incident. Have you heard of karma?

I live with a vet with severe PTSD and who is also 100% disabled. I walk beside those shoes daily. No one can stand up for him...because he was not doing the right thing. The airline crew was calm and nice and he was ranting and raving. HE WAS. Not them. He wanted his dog in a seat. He was asked to put the dog on the floor. He should have complied with what he was asked to do instead of being a jerk.

There were children on that plane. One mother actually carries her child off..you can see it in the video. A little girl was two seats behind him. He should have thought of others. It is a dog. Dogs do not mind being on the floor. HE was trying to make a point and in making his point he held up an entire plane load of OTHER people who had places to go.

They were not supportive of him. Someone clapped as they cuffed him on the plane. Watch the video again.

reply to post by winofiend


They were were not denying the dog to fly. They asked that it be on the floor. I do not understand why that is so upsetting???

reply to post by BristolStew


Or, just maybe, I've worked with the airlines and or FAA, and I know the rules.

Solution:

Let the dog have the seat and let the man lay on the floor as the dog was much better behaved!

Being a veteran does not give anyone the right to be a jerk.

Zaphod58

 

So you're telling me that if you had a service dog, and were going somewhere for the first time, you wouldn't bother to find out the rules for having your dog there?

He knows the rules. He even says that on the video. Whatever airline "policy" in in place doesn't override the law. And no, that is not a small dog that can comfortably fit on the floor between seats. Did you even look at the video?

reply to post by BristolStew


He is a disabled man. The fact that he is a veteran really is irrelevant.

reply to post by BristolStew


Not everyone can fly. Some people may be forced to use other types of transportation for various reasons. Really big people can't always fit in the seats offered on an airplane for example. However, any and all persons that behave well and are allowed by rules and regulations on a plane should be treated with equal respect!
A disabled person is a disabled person and deserves just as much respect as another disable person that also happens to be a vet. I see on the site here a demand for respect for all veterans as if they were all special. There WAS a draft once. Not everyone volunteered. Veterans can be dishonorably discharged. Veterans can end up criminals or have started off criminals.
Using Veteran as an adjective should not Automatically mean high respect is deserved, sorry. I have known many veterans though I am not one myself for various reasons including health and timing, and many have deserved the highest respect while a number are just terrible people that happen to be veterans. I realize that this will raise hackles but please reign in emotion and look at it logically.
A clerk that was involuntarily drafted and reluctantly served in a stateside office isn't the same as someone that volunteered and throws himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers. Not all veterans are heroes. Take pride in your service but don't insist all veterans are special, disabled or not.
If this man was treated poorly, that is a rotten shame no matter his situation or background.

Does being a vietnam vet come with any special bonuses and/or privileges? Being disabled, I can understand. But the rest is just the good old fake patriotism, still being forced in to your minds.

reply to post by PsykoOps


And he wasn't removed because of the dog. The airline broke no law. They allowed him to board and removed him after he refused to listen to the flight crew. Again if he was removed for not listening and didn't have the dog would you even notice?

The law was followed, but even with the dog he has to follow the rules. Its not airline policy, its FAA policy, and federal law that you have to listen to the flight crew. But I guess no one gives a damn about that huh. You just want to be outraged over a story that's not true. There was no discrimination.

reply to post by Hellas


Apparently, according to some, being disabled means no rules apply to you at all. If you or I were removed for not listening to the crew it not only wouldn't be a story, if anyone DID hear about it we'd get crucified for being stupid. Yet that same thing happens to a disabled person and it's instantly discrimination.

He's just an angry soldier. Pissed off about his life in general anyways. He was asked calmly to put the dog down, just for takeoff. Why not just do it instead of causing a scene about servicing the country? Not understanding what his disability is its hard to know where he's coming from.

If there was a reason he needed the dog on the seat I can understand his frustration. Disabled people can get very angry and rightly so at times, when faced with what they perceive as ignorance.

He was thrown off for causing a ruckus. It endangers the lives of other passengers. It's airline rules

reply to post by Zaphod58


Oh so now it wasn't the dog? Yeah right. Even flight crews must obide by laws. They cant ask you to jump off the plane just because they feel like it.

its not airline policy, its FAA policy, and federal law

Care to source that?

PsykoOps
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Oh so now it wasn't the dog? Yeah right. Even flight crews must obide by laws. They cant ask you to jump off the plane just because they feel like it.

its not airline policy, its FAA policy, and federal law

Care to source that?

The disabled man knows his rights, he knows the law and he stood up for himself. When he got frustrated he was immediately labeled as lunatic, drunken, illogically angry by some of these people on ATS. Some even missed the whole point forgetting that he is a disabled and the dog was not even a regular pet but a Service Dog. If that was my dog, I would want to make sure he is comfortable and not in danger. The seat is too small for his size, he wouldn't be comfortable at all and obviously not safe either if he cannot fit.

Some people forgot what a human being is nor animal rights and all of a sudden, if someone works for some company asked you to jump off just not to cause a scene, then yeah why not jump off instead of standing up for your rights and your dogs rights. So now they find it okay to not defend your dogs rights because according to them who cares about animals anyway, they cannot speak for themselves yeah, let's not protect them just not to cause a scene. ATS slogan says deny ignorance, apparently they did not do so.

reply to post by PsykoOps


The dog was not the primary reason he was removed. He refused to listen to the flight crew.

I believe the FAA rule was cited earlier in the thread, and it's federal law that you have to obey a flight crew (hence people charged in federal court for interference or failure to obey a flight crew. I'll find the actual law later).

reply to post by BristolStew


And some people forget that just because someone is disabled they still have to follow rules. But I guess all you guys care about is getting pissed off for any reason you can find.

Zaphod58
reply to post by UndergroundMilitia

 

If there was an empty seat next to him there was room for the dog for the (usually) twenty or thirty minutes for takeoff and less for landing. The dog can also sit between the seats, he just has to be on the floor.

Yes because a seven ounce Ipad is so much worse than a seventy pound Golden Retriever that can bite and claw if it's scared when something happens.

edit on 9/17/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

iPad's have never weighed 7 oz! Even the mini is 11 oz...

In all seriousness though, as someone who has flown internationally 2x with my dog, I was very sure to carefully read all the rules and airline policies related to travel with pets several times. My dog is like a family member and I didn't want to leave anything to chance or have any surprises when I arrived at the airport.

I called the airline to make sure they knew I was bringing my dog and that there would be room for him (In the baggage hold), and if there were any special requirements that I did not know about. I called again a few days before flying to confirm they had reserved space for him and there was no problems (There is a limit on how many animals can be on a flight due to allergy concerns for the passengers, and some airlines have restrictions based on high temperature for the day).

During my research I did see that service animals are allowed to fly in the cabin at no additional cost, and for a minute I thought about having my dog classified as a service animal to save some $ because now all of the airlines except Lufthansa ($500) charge cargo rates rather than excess baggage rates for putting your dog in the baggage hold and I was looking at $1200 - $2500 to bring my dog with me. Surprisingly there is no official certification for service dogs, you can just slap on a vest and call him a service dog and there isn't much anyone can say about it - If you want to cover your bases, just tell a doc you are depressed or something and have him write you a note.

I didn't go this route as I didn't want to take advantage of the system. And in retrospect, while it would be nice for my dog to not be locked in a crate for 18+ hours and to have him with me, I think it would be less of a hassle having him in baggage as I'm sure he would get antsy if unconfined on such a long flight - I know once he is in the crate and loaded on the plane he would be resigned to the fact he is stuck there and just sleep the flight away.

And as Zaphod said, if there is an empty seat there is enough room on the floor for the dog to lay down. My Rottweiler would have no problem fitting into that space and if I wanted to give him a little more room during takeoff I would just slide my feet under the seat in front of me. If they would allow the dog on the seat after take off that would just be a huge bonus - I know at least one of the airlines specifically has a policy that says you cannot buy a seat for your dog.

This guy should have appreciated that allowing the dog in the cabin is a pretty big accommodation already and he should have worked with the flight crew calmly to resolve the situation. If I had my dog in the cabin I would feel bad if I was inconveniencing anyone around me and would do whatever it takes because I'm grateful to have my dog with me...

Air Crews call. I wouldn't want the guy on my flight, vet of no vet, with a dog that large. Personally, I don't understand why airlines don't ban "service" dogs from commercial flights in the first place, since the duration of the flight is limited in most cases, and animals should be required to travel in the cargo hold. No exceptions. if it comes down to an 'incident' and there must be an emergency evac, the dog might survive but at the cost of a human life, and that is totally unacceptable. If there are people with "special" needs flying on an aircraft, the airline should be required to provide a "travel companion" that can aid the special needs person in the event of an emergency, you know, something that can put on a life vest, open an emergency door, read a safety card, do a fireman's carry, stuff like that. That's the kind of service an airline should provide to ALL special needs people, and that's what the fying public should DEMAND! That is a lot safer than relying on a dog, which is incapable of coping with an airline incident. You could also use them for monitoring under-age flyers or for couriers for human organs and such, things like that.