Questions for all the anti-gun folks

TinkerHaus

greavsie1971

TinkerHaus

greavsie1971
In the UK we are not afraid enough of violent crimes to want guns available to all. In the US you are all desperate to keep your guns. Therefore you do feel that they are needed because of the crime there. Does that not speak for itself?

No, in fact I don't see the relevance at all.

We're not in fear of violent crimes. We're just individuals with strong desires to protect ourselves and our families. We are people who enjoy hunting, target shooting, building, and admiring firearms. The average person having access to firearms is THE BIGGEST reason we escaped your country and it's tyrannical ways and therefor has been recognized and celebrated as a part of life in our society.

Your country has no problem at all lending support to dropping bombs on innocent people all over the ME - so you have no moral high ground from which to speak.

Guns are here to stay in the USA. You better get over it real fast, or you'll be crying about it until the day you die.

We have guns for hunting in the UK too. You believe ALL guns are banned here??????????

Many gun clubs here for hunters. Just not available to common folk who have no training in hunting and firearms.

I cant believe you are bringing the ME into this argument after all the drones, chemical weapons (depleted uranium) Nuclear weapons (Japan). Come on. This is ridiculous.

To sum it up as you clearly have the wrong idea about the UK. We have guns. For hunting. Many of them in the country. It is a popular hobby here.!!

Why you so aggressive. Im just saying why we dont want them available here.!


Chill out brother.!!!

edit on 16-9-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)

I understand you can get a permit and register your guns in the UK to hunt.

You are claiming that less guns = less crime and that claim is false. Educate yourself on the comparisons of violent crime rates in the US the UK. Look at the gun laws of Switzerland.

My point of talking about your country in regards to the ME is that you guys are 100% behind every messed up thing my country takes part in regarding regime change and securing the interests of corporations. You are no better or no worse than we are here. The major difference, however, is when the people finally decide that they've had enough warmongering and needless killing, the civilians in my country will have a much greater chance of inciting change should it ever come to that.

I have a great respect for the UK and Australia, but I am aware of the importance of my gun rights and I plan on keeping both my rights and my guns.

And it wasn't you, but another anti-gun idealist had to use the phrase "merica" which just REALLY pisses me off.

Like I said, If you want guns, that is ok by me. Just stop saying our culture is bad because of our gun laws. If that was true, we would want guns too. We dont. Cant you respect that too, the same way we respect your choices?

You are insulting our culture. Im just defending it. I do not insult yours.

reply to post by greavsie1971


Starred you just for inadvertently answering my question, at least regarding your country.

reply to post by greavsie1971


I didn't mean to insult your culture at all. I do know quite a few people from the UK who have a different view of this issue than you express here.

I am not against the UK or it's culture, or Oz and it's culture. My uncle lives near Perth, and Australia is in the top two places I need to visit before I die.

But comparing the rates of gun crimes between, for example, the UK and the US is like comparing the rates of auto accidents between the US and some really rural area in say, the Amazon. Yeah, there are less car deaths in the Amazon because there are less cars - but are people really better to one another? Do these deaths or violent acts manifest themselves in some other way?

Are guns directing human nature or are humans just going to be the same no matter what, and use the tools at their disposal to do so?


I do believe, however, that many people in the UK and Aus are AFRAID of firearms because of the culture there.

Your country has no problem at all lending support to dropping bombs on innocent people all over the ME - so you have no moral high ground from which to speak.

Guns are here to stay in the USA. You better get over it real fast, or you'll be crying about it until the day you die.

Thats too aggressive mate.


Come on man. There is no need for this type of comment. We would probably get on if we met and have lots of things in common. Im just trying to tell you that ridiculing my culture is not nice. We are happy not having guns available to all. You are happy. Im just trying to make that point. Why be so nasty?

We are fellow ATS'ers.

Lets be civil and friends?

We are not afraid of firearms as we dont really have much contact with them, and we dont want to as we know tere are crazy people here just like everywhere and we feel it best they dont have guns. Thats how we like it. I understand many in the US prefer it the other way. Thats ok. Different cultures and all that. I know of no body in the UK that wants guns available to all. Honestly....nobody I know wants this.


Peace?

chiefsmom
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Starred you just for inadvertently answering my question, at least regarding your country.

Which post are you referring to?

reply to post by warriorscholar81

Riiiigggghhhhttt...so the question remains unanswered then.

chiefsmom
reply to post by greavsie1971

 

Starred you just for inadvertently answering my question, at least regarding your country.

Ok I see what you mean but that is off topic. We are speaking about freely available firearms to all in order to protect against other humans when we feel is is necessary. What has hunting got to do with it? Hunting is allowed in almost every country. Arming the citizens is not.

Thanks for the star. I'll give you one back.

Like I said. I have no problem with you wanting guns. If you feel you need them that is your choice.
I just dont like it when people ridicule my country and culture for doing what we chose to do. What is the problem with that? Why bring the UK into this topic? It always seems to happen when the gun debate comes up. We are happy with the way things are here. You are happy with the way things are there. Whats the problem? We choose not to have guns, not our govt. We generally are happy with that.

Is that ok?

reply to post by warriorscholar81


It's not as black and white as Everyone should have guns and No one should have guns

That's why 99.9% of Gun threads are stupid.

Just respect our culture ok.

canucks555
reply to post by warriorscholar81

 

It's not as black and white as Everyone should have guns and No one should have guns

That's why 99.9% of Gun threads are stupid.

Totally agree. It just winds me up when people dis respect our culture and seem to use the UK as a point as to why guns are ok. We have much fewer deaths here due to violent crimes.

Someone else brought up a good point that we have different cultures that all approach this issue on ATS. The difference in the US is that there is a large number of firearms per capita already present, and there is an active agenda to disarm the public. I really think that needs to be taken into consideration regarding discussions on gun control in the US specifically.

Firearms are a bit of a benign topic until we consider violence committed with them. As many people continue to state, the source of the issue is not the guns themselves, but the willingness to carry out a violent crime in any respect. This is a standing, serious issue in ANY society regardless of specific weapons (even if only fists).

I think there are some relevant questions in this respect;

Will applying strict gun control reduce violent crime?

I dont think they reduce the incidents of violent crime per capita, regardless of culture. The severity has a possibility of being reduced per violent crime, but I think that is strongly affected by the number of firearms already present in the respective area, including how many are present in criminal hands before legislation is considered. All the data I have seen regarding this topic reflects this, but statistics and data can often be skewed on controversial topics.

Do the resources going to this social issue have more influence if they are invested into gun control specifically, or violent crime as a whole?

Any culture has a limited amount of resources to dedicate to various items. Ideally, where these resources are invested is at the most effective level to approach any problem. Kind of like curing the disease rather than just treating the symptoms. To help minimize violent crime as a whole, is it more effective to dedicate these resources (money, time, man hours, enforcement) to restricting access to a single weapon type (a symptom of a larger problem)? Or, is it more effective to invest them into mitigating the problem, violent crime in this scenario, as a whole?

I would suspect that any culture would see better ROI (return on investment) as an entire society if those resources were invested into things like education and access to basic needs. Much like in the video that Tinker posted, we could even invest them in an area by area basis where it is obvious there is a larger issue with violent crimes as a whole. Treat each individual area like a different patient (sticking with the disease analogy), and invest resources into actually curing the problem.

Regardless of individual stance on the topic of guns, it seems to me that it would be more effective to approach the topic of reducing violence at a much deeper level than legislation, lobbying, and enforcement of specific weapons.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


The statements are in fact, statements of fact so no backing up is necessary.

I really dont have a dog in this fight, quite frankly I dont care if all adults carry bazookas and you all get your kiddies those cute little pink guns for Christmas, good luck to you

Theres no programming involved in how I came to my opinion, its just common sense.
Why do you guys have so many shootings? Maybe its coz guns are everywhere and in your culture they are no longer taboo, jut a thought.

Keep your guns, hell buy a whole bunch more jut keep over there and everyone will be happy ...........................except of course the families of the few hundred killed by guns every week, but its probably their fault for not having enough guns in the first place

Well I for one would only turn in the ones registered to me and my household. We have plenty that are not. Or you can do like my dad, and build a hidden room between the water heater and a closet in his home that is totally undetectable with a totally clever and hidden entrance and store them there. NOT all of them. That is the key.

Turn in the ones registered, keep the ones not.

We have 3 registered and about 12 registered to a dead man in ohio (my father in law) that as far as any one knows he sold before he died.

reply to post by canucks555


Then do no participate in the conversation then and have you noticed no one has come up with a reasonably legitimate answer to either of the questions I presented. All the anti-gun folk have done is show up and gripe and whine about are guns are bad.

Not one attempt at answering the questions intelligently. I mean if one person could come up with a reasonably intelligent and compelling response then maybe I would change my stance. Until then I guess I will just keep polishing my gun.

reply to post by greavsie1971


Yeah and you also have really lame television shows. Im just kidding, but seriously your shows suck.

reply to post by warriorscholar81


Well since this is in "rants" I feel obligated to tell you that 99.9% of gun threads are stupid.
This Gun thread is stupid as well, imo.

Polarization, it's like watching paint dry. Has any of it actually changed any ones minds here?

zzzzzzzzz

Until then I guess I will just keep polishing my gun.

Is that what they're calling it these days?

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

The statements are in fact, statements of fact so no backing up is necessary.

I really dont have a dog in this fight, quite frankly I dont care if all adults carry bazookas and you all get your kiddies those cute little pink guns for Christmas, good luck to you

Theres no programming involved in how I came to my opinion, its just common sense.
Why do you guys have so many shootings? Maybe its coz guns are everywhere and in your culture they are no longer taboo, jut a thought.

Keep your guns, hell buy a whole bunch more jut keep over there and everyone will be happy ...........................except of course the families of the few hundred killed by guns every week, but its probably their fault for not having enough guns in the first place

You are an emotional and illogical person regarding this topic. You have refused to back up your claims and therefor your argument is completely and totally irrelevant. You have avoided addressing the valid arguments FOR gun ownership.

You do not think, and you do not wish to question your own beliefs. You are programmed into believing, without consideration, that firearms are bad and only lead to bad things.

Have fun in LaLa Land.