Global Warming Much Much worse than predicted.

andy06shake
Global warming, im more worried about Global cooling. Compare the Arctic ice sheet from 2012 to now in Sep 2013 and I think it may surprise you.

Compare minimum Arctic sea ice extent (which is what you mean) with the average for the past 10 years, and the preceding ten years .....

I think it may surprise you


As for Dabd Roses's reports in the Daily Fail - he repeats lies even after it's been formally pointed out to him that they are ies. He's a trustworthy as a chocolate raft in a pool of lava. And, frankly, an embarassing joke. If he ever did report a true fact, no-one would ever notice.

reply to post by poet1b


All the permanent ice will eventually melt and there will eventually be another ice-age and there is not a single thing that humans can do to prevent it.

It is natural and has happened multiple times before.

Until your scientists can pinpoint the exact amount of warming that is normal and the exact amount that humans are contributing to it your are wasting time by saying that humans are responsible for it.

Maybe we are the cause of 90% or maybe only cause 1/10 of 1% of it.

Point is that its irrelevant. Your never, ever, going to keep the planet at an optimal temperature.

reply to post by generik


Could it be that you watch too much porn, and that is why you see everything as porn?

Read the op, the ice loss is on land, melting into the oceans.

Greenland is an island, ( actually a couple of islands ) and Antarctica, which is a continent.

You slam my source, but provide none of your own.

reply to post by FlyersFan



Again, shipping lanes opening through the Arctic Ocean!!!!!

Columbus has sailed, and lived to tell the tale.

reply to post by poet1b


Your source doesn't say how much of that would be melting normally though.

Without that information you can't determine to what extent that humans are affecting it.

Its all assumption.

reply to post by generik


As you quoted wiki i will to -should be reliable enough in this instance

The Antarctic ice sheet is one of the two polar ice caps of the Earth. It covers about 98% of the Antarctic continent and is the largest single mass of ice on Earth. It covers an area of almost 14 million square km and contains 26.5 million cubic km of ice.[2] That is, approximately 61 percent of all fresh water on the Earth is held in the Antarctic ice sheet, an amount equivalent to 70 m of water in the world's oceans.

So yes the Antartic could easily manage 2m.

The Arctic is tiny in comparison and its, sea ice, is already in the sea so doesn't affect sea levels at all. Only ice on land melting into the sea makes it rise. However it is the temperature of the sea that may have possibly the biggest effect as the ocean heats it expands and the volume of the oceans is immense and it is suspected that more than half of sea level rise today is due to warmed and expanded sea water.

Because it is the principal component of Earth's hydrosphere, the world ocean is integral to all known life, forms part of the carbon cycle, and influences climate and weather patterns. The total volume is approximately 1.3 billion cubic kilometres (310 million cu mi)

Tinkerpeach

Until your scientists can pinpoint the exact amount of warming that is normal and the exact amount that humans are contributing to it your are wasting time by saying that humans are responsible for it.

And presumably, until our scientists can pinpoint the exact amount of deaths from cancer that is normal, and the exact amount that humans are contributing to it (by smoking or breathing in car fumes, or from Fukusima etc) then they (and everyone else) are wasting their time saying that humans are responsible for them

Think about it

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Irrelevant.

There was global warming and ice melting before humans even existed on the planet.

reply to post by phantomjack


Clearly you didn't burn up too much energy writing your post.

But good to see you recognize humanities contribution to global warming.

poet1b
reply to post by phantomjack

 

Clearly you didn't burn up too much energy writing your post.

But good to see you recognize humanities contribution to global warming.

So you admit that global warming is not caused strictly by humans.

There may be hope for you.

Now all that's left is to determine what that actual contribution that humans make is.

- sorry -

Tinkerpeach
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

Irrelevant.

There was global warming and ice melting before humans even existed on the planet.

So?

Whales died before humans ever existed on the planet

Do you genuinely believe that no whale has ever died as as result of human activity?

There were wildfires before humans ever existed on the planet.

Do you genuinely believe that there has never been a wildfire caused by human activity?

Yes, the climate has changed before humans ever existed on the planet

Why do you genuniely believe that climate cannot also change as a result of human activity?

How hot was it in New York City today? Would it have been the same temperature if New York City did not exist?

Ever heard of Urban Heat Islands? That's humans affecting the climate ..... (cities also affect rainfall. As does deforestation - indeed, tropical deforestation has global implications - has it been dry in Texas of late?).

reply to post by johnb

However it is the temperature of the sea that may have possibly the biggest effect as the ocean heats it expands and the volume of the oceans is immense and it is suspected that more than half of sea level rise today is due to warmed and expanded sea water.

This is another component that science is not adding into the formula. Just the contributions of Antarctica and Greenland may add 2 meters, according to the numbers in the Op, what rising ocean temperatures may contribute is another significant factor. As the Arctic warms, it will not cool the oceans, and ocean temperature rise will continue to accelerate.

It has already been identified that deep Ocean water is heating and expanding.

AndyMayhew

Tinkerpeach
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

Irrelevant.

There was global warming and ice melting before humans even existed on the planet.

So?

Whales died before humans ever existed on the planet

Do you genuinely believe that no whale has ever died as as result of human activity?

There were wildfires before humans ever existed on the planet.

Do you genuinely believe that there has never been a wildfire caused by human activity?

Yes, the climate has changed before humans ever existed on the planet

Why do you genuniely believe that climate cannot also change as a result of human activity?

How hot was it in New York City today? Would it have been the same temperature if New York City did not exist?

Ever heard of Urban Heat Islands? That's humans affecting the climate ..... (cities also affect rainfall. As does deforestation - indeed, tropical deforestation has global implications - has it been dry in Texas of late?).

edit on 15-9-2013 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)

I never stated that humans were not contributing to it.

I did however say that nobody knows to what extent that humans are adding to it. It may be a lot or it may be hardly anything at all.

Given the fact that nothing humans can do will prevent all the ice from melting I fail to see what the concern is.

Here would be a typical conversation if scientists actually knew anything:

Me: So when do we expect all the permanent ice to disappear?

Scientist: Well we know that if unaltered by outside influences that all the ice will be gone by 2070, however, with the human addition to the greenhouse gases we can now expect all the ice to be gone by 2045.

This would be a normal problem that we could address. Right now, nobody can even tell us what the normal melt is expected to be much less what additional affect humans are having.

Also, why do you consider all the ice melting to be a bad thing? Inter-glacial periods are times when plant and animal life absolutely flourish according to fossil records. If anything, the glacial periods are the bad times. So what if people on the coast have to move a couple miles inland? We will adapt.

reply to post by Tinkerpeach


So, are you saying that you recognize that global warming is happening?

You just question humanities contribution?

If anything, current science underestimates how fast the globe is warming.

The more that is discovered, the more new issues are discovered that show global warming to be occurring.

Each new year is getting to be more and more of a surprise.

poet1b
reply to post by Tinkerpeach

 

So, are you saying that you recognize that global warming is happening?

You just question humanities contribution?

Of course it is and I don't know of any reputable scientist that disputes that. This is just a matter of taking global annual temperatures, averaging them, and comparing them to past data. Kind of hard to deny empirical evidence.

We are coming out of an ice-age though so its expected, what isn't known is what the natural rate of warming would be without human contribution.

Until that can be distinguished any talk of what needs to be done is pre-mature.

reply to post by poet1b


i'm one of the few left on this site that fully believes that humans have pushed normal climate change into hyperdrive. while climate change has always existed it's moving at a rate too fast for us to be able to adapt.

i think your OP is very interesting. and scary. and it's very possible that sea levels will be drastically different 30 years from now. it's just ONE of the many things that will be drastically different as far as climate.

*no one needs to bash me for posting my opinion. i've heard/read all the theories on this site. i fully believe in AGW and no amount of name calling or links will change my mind. i've already read it.

The most important Moral of the story:

What fear can we promote to get our "Carbon Credit Scam".


Any issue, warming, cooling, pollution, over-population, under-population, war, famine, disease, etc. EQUALS "Carbon Credit Scam" as the solution.

The Financial Industry middlemen and World Government Nutcases must have it and by any means possible. The Carbon Credit Scam is the universal and necessary "solution" for any problem as it universally solves their issue of money and control which they must have.



Those of you who believe that man-made Global Warming is real, minor, not real, etc. Makes no difference.

The Goal and Necessary Solution is the Carbon Credit Scam and unlimited monies sent to continue research and funding for the so called "climate scientist" who's entire livelihood is wrapped around continuing the climate debate or getting everyone to believe in what they are doing so the money can roll in.

By the way, you all know about the "infolurker affect" due to man's use of electrical power which is disrupting the magnetosphere yes?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What you are seeing is the "Infolurker Affect"

I Told you all about this weeks ago ... And I publicly claimed my scam... err... I mean "solution" to this problem..

Don't know about the "Infolurker Affect"?

See, The Earth's Magnetic field is weakening: news.nationalgeographic.com...

OK, here is the plan... the magnetic field is changing due to mans use of electricity (electrical production and the transport of electricity worldwide is disrupting the natural magnetic field of the earth!).... Now, we can get a coalition of scientists to hit the government up for millions for research (I get 5%) and have Al Gore make another movie (with me not Hansen) and if we preach this well enough we can make a crap-ton of money just on the books alone.... Now, if it goes really well after that, we can then press for "electron credits" and "electron Cap & Trade" scams. Then an international court to "punish" those who do not comply with paying us to prevent this disaster and doing what we tell them in the name of the environment.

I hereby repeat my claim this scam ... err, I mean scientific discovery and disclosure of the greatest threat to mankind ever, publicly and originally on the internet on 1/11/2009 and we will call this the "Infolurker Effect" going forward!

We will make a mint by taxing every kilowatt of electricity produced in the WORLD! This is almost as good as the Co2 scam and nobody has claimed it yet so I am.. LOL! (Yes, the UN will gladly assist us in this department, we can give them a portion of the money to line their pockets and they will support us 100%)

Scientists, DO NOT link this to CO2 scam please we need to be independent here and make sure we have a "New" man made cause of this imminent disaster (electrical production and transportation over power lines sounds pretty good, oops, I mean THE ELECTRON SCIENCE is indisputable!). No use sharing our new disaster with the Co2 clowns when we can start a whole NEW fear mongering money maker for ourselves and WE will not make our money since they have cornered the Co2 fear market.

reply to post by poet1b



You might wanna do the math again. The 'real' IPCC estimate for the contribution of Greenland and Antartica to total sea levels by the end of the century is stated in next paragraph, right after the one you quoted.

Greenland may add a total of 4 centimeters to 21 centimeters to ocean levels by the period 2081 through 2100, across a range of carbon-emissions scenarios assessed in the study, compared with the period 1986 through 2005. That's up from a 2007 forecast of 1 centimeter to 12 centimeters, when the UN carried out its last major assessment of climate science.

Results due to Antarctic ice range from lowering sea levels by 6 centimeters to a 14-centimeter increase. The 2007 report forecast a reduction of 2 centimeters to 14 centimeters, due to higher snowfall than surface melt. The UN said in the earlier report that its understanding of how the southern continent loses ice from glaciers flowing into the sea wasn't good enough to include in its prediction.


Read more: www.smh.com.au...

Estimates for total sea levels from the same IPCC leaked draft cited in your source.

An IPCC draft projects seas will rise by between 29 and 82 cm by the late 21st century - above the estimates of 18 to 59 cm in the last report, which did not fully account for changes in Antarctica and Greenland.

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

What did the IPCC get wrong to come up with a much lower number?