Kerry Gives in to Lavrov on “Use of Force,” Putin Wins, Assad Keeps WMD For Now

reply to post by jdub297


it IS none of your business.
before trying to fix other countries, fix your own. until your country will become a shining example of peaceful and open-minded society living in prosperity on this planet, you have absolutely NO right to lecture others, nor force your opinion down their throats with bombs.

The public has spoken and the answer is no to military action in Syria.

You want action in Syria.. Ok! How about we band together and provide food, shelter, medical attention, some sort of education and supply a means of religious worship to the refugees. I would be all for helping those displaced from their home nation!

Perhaps we could even get one of our Allies to temporarily take them in to weather the storm.

This is more along the line of "true American values" (or at least what they were once). I think the public would be much more receptive to a relief effort than military action.

--------------------------

As far as military action goes... Not only can we not afford it but it's none of our business... It's a civil war, plain and simple.

We should be solving our own Domestic problems right now. God knows they are piling up at an alarming rate.

reply to post by jdub297

Despite Kerry and Obama's lies to the contrary, there will be no "use of force" as part of the "deal" Kerry agreed to on Saturday:

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) -- Moscow insisted on Tuesday that a new Security Council resolution on Syria not allow the use of force, while the Arab country's main opposition group demanded a swift international response following the U.N. report that confirmed chemical weapons were used outside Damascus last month.
...
In Moscow, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Russia "spoke clearly" about rejecting the use of force when the agreement on Syria abandoning its chemical weapons was worked out in Geneva between U.S. and Russian envoys.

hosted.ap.org...

The killing will go on until there are no rebels left. At the present rate of about 5 civilian death to one rebel, that means there won't be 500,000 more Syrians to leave to themselves when this winds down in 2 years.

deny ignorance

jw

jedi_hamster
reply to post by jdub297

 

before trying to fix other countries, fix your own. until your country will become a shining example of peaceful and open-minded society living in prosperity on this planet, you have absolutely NO right to lecture others, nor force your opinion down their throats with bombs.

Thanks for that grant of permission.

Given that Barack Obama says our "recovery" is sustained and growing, that unemployment is falling across-the-board, we create at least 130,000 new jobs each month, and the rich are paying a larger proportion of their income in taxes than in the last 50 years, it sounds like we're right on track.

England, France and Russia now say they will join the U.S.' leadership in policing WMD search and destroy in Syria.

I know that Obama is working on the "lecture" right now; he practiced a bit over the weekend and yesterday.
As for forcing opinions down throats, open wide and say, "AHHH."

reply to post by mike dangerously

The American Exceptionalism delusion has cost this country far too much it's this thinking that gets us into trouble everytime.From NK to Vietnam to Syria.It's pitiful that so many people truly think that we should be an empire.

Why did you leave out WWII, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait and the other "interventions" where we could've sat on our asses while others died?
Instead, we took a principled position and took action, saving millions of lives.

Oh, I forgot, you have no "principles" except taking care of yourself first over others.
God help us if another Hitler comes along soon; the present generation will watch everyone die, feeling warm and comfy in their selfishness and self-righteousness.

Silly me.

I have felt for a long time that inevitably being a Nation that is a force to be reckoned with should never mean being a bully or playing world police. My Nation has been just that for a long time now. It's time for us to get back to our roots. Lead by example and diplomacy.

We should forever be vigilante in the matters of our National Security but never engage in wars that do not directly pose a threat to our National Security. National Interests cannot be mistaken for National Security any further. It's time to become that sleeping giant once more that no one wants to wake up. It is time to hibernate and rest up and take care of ourselves.

It's time for non-intervention and diplomacy. Not isolationism. I encourage any nation to take my nations resolve or abilities for granted within any capacity.

reply to post by jdub297


I agree with you on this to an extent. It is where I support international intervention. It's time to make the UN start doing it's job so these things never happen again and it won't happen until the World starts playing by the same rules every where on the International level.

reply to post by Flint2011

I have felt for a long time that inevitably being a Nation that is a force to be reckoned with should never mean being a bully or playing world police. My Nation has been just that for a long time now. It's time for us to get back to our roots. Lead by example and diplomacy.

I guess that depends upon the definition of "bully."

When the Taliban shoot girls and murder families for allowing them to read, most of the world looks the other way: "It is none of our business."
When the Taliban say that they will fight to the death to see that democracy never takes hold anywhere, and is eradicated where it is sprouting, the Obama administration wants to "negotiate " power-sharing with them.
When Iran kills innocent, peaceful demonstrators on live television in the streets of Tehran, no one says, "Stop," and means it.
When Sudan kills millions in Darfur for the simple reason that they are alive, it is offered a seat at the United Nations "Human Rights Council," and the rest of the world sit on their hands.
Georgia decides to separate itself from the last bastions of the dead and gone USSR and, in self-determination, look toward the EU and NATO, Russia steps in and murders them into acquiescence.

And, yet, there are dozens on ATS and this thread who say that all of this is acceptable, and that the U. S. should be applauded for mute observation.

Kitty Genovese is slaughtered on the stoop of a New York apartment while dozens of neighbors "didn't want to get involved," because it was "none of my business."

Is there not a time or an atrocity in which the U. S. A. can act without the politically correct class denouncing "intervention," or mischaracterizing action on principle for "bullying?"

I guess it's very easy if you have no principle but narcissism.

jw

reply to post by jedi_hamster

economic freedom? like invading Iraq and killing Hussein while lying that he has WMD, because he dared to sell oil in other currencies than dollar? yeah, sure, it was all about Kuwait..

You obviously have no idea what you are posting about, or are an inveterate .... .

The 2003 Iraq invasion didn't happen in an instant. The U.N. documented WMD use against Kurds and Iranians; Hussein, himself, threatened even more. The U. N. WMD inspectors had been thwarted and obstructed in their inspections and attempts at verification. The U. N., Congress, France and others documented Iraqi attempts to obtain fissile material. The ranks of the MSM saw "just cause" for action. A majority of the U. S. Senate and the House of Representatives found it justified to end Hussein's terrorism.

Yet the out-of-their-minds left claim that an idiot/imbecile/fool/dunce/illiterate/uneducated/uncouth dolt of a President fooled them all!

Ironic? Embarrassing? Opportunistic? Hypocritical?
Of course; but never you mind.

And you pathetically and baselessly refer to oil and Kuwait.
Your school system has failed you completely, but your indoctrination was a success.

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by jdub297


“America’s leading diplomat,” John Kerry " .... I believe that is a serious misnomer , Kerry is more like America's Leading Mouthpiece for the Military Industrial Corporate Complex that Profits by the Pain and Suffering of others around the Globe through Perpetual Wars and Conflict all for the sake of Wealth and Power ..................

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by jdub297

 

“America’s leading diplomat,” John Kerry " .... I believe that is a serious misnomer , Kerry is more like America's Leading Mouthpiece for the Military Industrial Corporate Complex that Profits through the Pain and Suffering of others around the Globe through Perpetual Wars and Conflict all for the sake of Wealth and Power ..................

I do not recall where I first read that reference to "America's top diplomat," but my family thought I was watching some funny YouTube video, the way I was laughing and coughing!
I find absolutely nothing in John Kerry that leads me to believe that anything comes more dear or sacred to him than John Kerry. In less than 6 weeks he's contradicted the president, himself, objective observers, and common sense.

For the sake of our Nation, I hope that sometime very soon a (made-up) "family emergency" or (convenient) "personal commitment/conflict" will require him to step aside, regrettably, "for the good of the Country."
(And, this was our SECOND choice; after Susan "YouTube Video" Rice lied her way out of credibility and into being the president's #1 intel/defense advisor.)
jw

reply to post by Zanti Misfit

America's Leading Mouthpiece for the Military Industrial Corporate Complex that Profits by the Pain and Suffering of others around the Globe through Perpetual Wars and Conflict all for the sake of Wealth and Power

Wait! Isn't that Vladimir Putin?

But, have you ever seen Putin and Kerry in the same room at the same time?
Uh oh.

reply to post by jdub297


" But, have you ever seen Putin and Kerry in the same room at the same time?
Uh oh. "


Yes , in Bedroom together . .........I have the Pictures........LOL

reply to post by jdub297


I completely understand. I can meet you half way on some of that stuff. But our foreign policies still have to change regardless. Perception is one's own reality. I am not very PC at al. I have a complete dislike of the UN and NATO as they exist now. Both need serious reforms as well as US Foreign Policy in my view.

Do I know all of the answers? No I do not. But one thing is for certain. The way the US Government has been conducting itself is not working and needs to change. The international community needs to wake up and smell the coffee as well.

reply to post by Flint2011

Perception is one's own reality.

I agree; especially in a "low information" environment.

But let's step back from Syria and look at the bigger picture.

When there is a "human rights" crisis, do the people of the world ask, "What will Holland do about this>"
When a tyrant breaches all standards of conduct, morality and courtesy, does the world ask, "Will Italy step in?"
If a natural disaster overruns a nation's abilities, does the WHO or the IMF look to Australia for leadership?

An honest answer, and an honest assessment, will acknowledge that the U. S. A. is different, is "exceptional."

Problem is, no one will say so; even our president.

reply to post by jdub297


Actually most of the world would like the US to mind it's own business.

jdub297


An honest answer, and an honest assessment, will acknowledge that the U. S. A. is different, is "exceptional."

In that sense yes.....but no more exceptional than the British empire was before WW2. And the Roman empire once was ect

And in 500 years time when the Empire of Fuji or the Congo confederation is the world superpower the they too will be considered "exceptional."

You confusing exceptionalism with being a superpower and maybe that is exceptional. A American as a indiviual is no more exceptional than a Brit, a Canndian a Japanese or hell even a Frenchman we are all the same sacks of meat.

jdub297

An honest answer, and an honest assessment, will acknowledge that the U. S. A. is different, is "exceptional."

Problem is, no one will say so; even our president.

Sorry, I don't buy into that BS myself. I am some how exceptional or better because I am a US citizen? That's more along the lines of arrogance in my view. So we will have to part ways on that one.

In case anyone really believed the Obama/Kerry drivel about "holding Syria's feet to the fire," they've already backed off of their disclosure deadline:

The ambitious U.S.-Russian deal to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons, hailed as a diplomatic breakthrough just days ago, hit its first delay Wednesday with indications that the Syrian government will not submit an inventory of its toxic stockpiles and facilities to international inspectors by this weekend's deadline.

The State Department signaled that it would not insist that Syrian President Bashar Assad produce the list Saturday, the end of a seven-day period spelled out in the framework deal that Washington and Moscow announced last weekend in Geneva.

www.latimes.com...

Meanwhile, the civilians continue to die.

Al Qaeda-linked fighters battled a rival Syrian rebel group near the Turkish frontier for a second day on Thursday, after the militant Islamists stormed a nearby town and prompted Turkey to shut a border crossing.
...
The confrontation in the town of Azaz was one of the most serious clashes between the al Qaeda affiliate, made up largely of foreign fighters, and the more ideologically moderate home-grown rebels trying to topple President Bashar al-Assad.

www.reuters.com...

So we continue to look the other way.
How brave.

jw