What happens if we end up at war with Russia?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Russia would not be able to sustain the First American strike if it came to it. Our first strike capabilities, our missile systems alone could paralyze them & China for that Fact early. All i,m saying is don't Worry because if you go look up our Military capabilities over Russia you will see they do Fear us.

The Putin loudmouth, posturing, is just that. He knows their is no direct threat in Obama, & he is also taking advantage of his foreign failures. This is nothing like Regan vs. Gorbachev where the tension was real & Regan wouldn't back down. Stage Show as far as i'm concerned.

gotya

openminded2011
reply to post by devildogUSMC

 

Mutually assured destruction. That's why there wont be a war (we hope).

Exactly.

Who wins?

Did you hear ?
There are no winners in war, only the dead and the living
And in this one, there would be none

juspassinthru

opethPA
Please don't tell me you are one of those people that thinks a successful ground based invasion of the Mainland US is plausible, ie Red Dawn could happen.

It's already happened.

The "invasion" force is NorthCom and DHS. Not to mention there are quantities of foreign troops on our soil right now that could be purposed to domestic pacification thru treaties and agreement.

I was going to say an actual real invasion from Russia, NYET, not happening.

However, you bring up a good point. Someone said today - and I agree - Russia is becoming more capitalist and definitely loosening the overbearing grip on it's people. I even spoke to a Russian who has only been in the US a very short time and she said there is an H&M near her small town.

While the Russians have figured out that heavy handed communiusm is a failure, Obama is trying it here at home. We don't need Russia to invade, we have the NSA, DHS, FEMA camps, IRS playing heavy handed with the American people. We also have a large enough group of politicians that want to move to more and more and more government control over the daily lives of Americans, ie Common Core Curriculum in schools; EPA destroying businesses with their over regulation; Obamacare giving the government access to and control over American's healthcare; heck

We are already there and Russia didn't have to lift a finger.

We are no longer the home of the free, the NSA,DHS, IRS has seen to that
Obama has shredded the constitution the country was founded on with his illegal and overreaching Presidential edicts and end runs around congress.

He--, we are probably more like USSR and the KGB than Russia is now.

reply to post by CurlyBot


yes, most modern cities are death traps and are utterly undefendable. They are not like older cities designed for siege and fortification.

Older cities may prove to be more tenable.

The invading force would need to hold them. That is where urban warfare which is very dependant on high technology would come in for them. A gorilla style warfare in the countryside and surrounding areas of a city, coupled with a highly mobile low tech insurgency in the cities would be the best options for the native civilian population.

In the city, you let them come in. You make the city a reverse trojan horse. Once in the city they will focus on routing out a force which could be small but made to seem large. Sabotage and explosives placement would be the main concern. Infiltrating the "off the clock" soldiers recreation areas would be key to a continued insurgency within a city. It would also allow the seeding of distrust and division between their command and their enlisted.

The closer to the front line, the less actual military presence should be felt. All force projection should be done from within the enemies occupied areas. Give them no target and keep them running around looking for one so you can slowly erode at their numbers without drawing too much attention to yourself of your actions.

poisoned water supply, assassin prostitutes, booby trapped equipment, chemical attacks on barracks or staging grounds, ect.... in an occupied city we would have to use "silent" warfare.

In the surrounding areas and the country side, a more open warfare could be waged by way of decoys drawing more of the enemy force to hit and run ambushes, sniper fire on established patrols, artillery and rocket fire on forward staging areas...ect.

We have MANY ex military who trained in insurgency tactics spanning many decades just sitting around. The combined expertise of the inactive military in the US would make holding a city seem useless, and advancing the front line a perpetual quagmire.

The vital assets I would be worried about are not utilities or manufacturing plants. I would be more concerned for weapons caches and ammo depots. Those arent usually inside a city. Modern cities arent self sufficient also. That means a constant flow of resources into them so as to keep them. Supply lines are vital for any war effort. A formal military needs much more in terms of quantity and more complex logistics than a native insurgency. That is all music to an insurgents ears.

I stand by what I said. Any invasion into the US would be like one into Russia. Hell.

Russia could destroy u.s.
Now hold on it is for one reason only, chinas super weapon emp. A emp that hit the nation. That is the entire u.s would paralyze us and russia with china troops in there carrier would invade. Other tha that. Everyone gets nuked

you get the tens of thousands of russian soldiers already in the country to poison the water supply then a emp blast or three .

russia has bunkers for it's civilians america does not but economic war is a lot easier crush a country that way but the two countrys are a lot closer than most think maybe a good way to get rid of the usless earers who knows

Quite possibly the dumbest post i have ever seen on here.

Jordan River
Russia could destroy u.s.
Now hold on it is for one reason only, chinas super weapon emp. A emp that hit the nation. That is the entire u.s would paralyze us and russia with china troops in there carrier would invade. Other tha that. Everyone gets nuked

I think war is becoming more and more likely but not by deliberate design any more than it ever would have been. History records the two nations came shockingly close to nuclear launches a couple times by error and miscalculation.

Here, I think miscalculation is the greatest factor. Putin is pushing because Obama is wimpy and can be pushed. Putin will keep pushing until Obama says no. Although if Obama pushes back too hard, Putin has a dozen ways he can hurt us BADLY without any military.

Start with Russia being our sole access to the ISS and Earth orbit with men involved, thanks to short sighted planning and weak excuses for missed and reset deadlines over the years. Russia also can make life extremely difficult for the air resupply corridor feeding US troops in Afghanistan and Putin brought that up again just the other day, before Obama backed down to the inspection and surrender plan on the CW.

If they miscalculate though and one hits back in a tantrum or bad reaction to something? Well... No one meant or planned World War I, either. It was obvious to all, as the records read, for a long time prior. No one meant for it to happen though. BAD miscalculations all around to start things off.

reply to post by princeofpeace


So you're just going to call me out and be a man about it

The emp weapon is possibly real and a weapon that very well exist to china. The only thing i said that may have question my thinking is thechina troops being moved by russian carriers. Obviously satellite image would see that mobilization. Dumb? Do your research and dialogue is good too


China can't mobilize all their troops. They sent fisherboats to ship the troops

reply to post by Thorneblood

However if you assume that said force instead sought to invade America, then good #ing luck to them and may god have mercy on their souls. There are still 90 weapons for every 100 people in this country and i challenge any nation to try and take this land.

That is why it is important to keep the populace content and why the self inflicted erosion of society in the US is undermining its security more than anything else and to top it all off it is in large degree self inflicted. I hope to be alive the day that I hear the news that the UK is presenting a complain in the new UN building in Moscow against France because it is selling rebels/freedom fighters in the US arms. That Mexico has risen their military forces to high alert status and will be annexing/recuperating the Texas territories as to avoid the continuation of the blood shed of civilians and reduce the influx of refugees...

reply to post by TDawgRex


That was hilarious. Who finds that?

tadaman
reply to post by devildogUSMC

 

I agree, the US has NEVER looked so inviting as a target for a formal military.

We are indeed spread way too thin. Where I disagree is that we are ultimately defenceless. You may not have said such, but it is to be understood. We could not repel a land invasion into the US by a medium sized force.

Not initially. We could however turn all our industry into a war machine that would dwarf that of the WW2 era.

If a land invasion were to happen in the US and certain assets were to be lost to them the situation would look dire, though the whole continent would be a second Asia /Russia to the invading army. Any territory gained in a short time would be lost over a period of months. The invading force would be involved in a game of severe attrition. A heavily armed populace brimming with highly trained ex military and security forces.....that is one hell of an uphill.


All that said,
Russia would not need to attack the US. The UN would be the mechanism used. Russia may in this scenario take the lead, and a Russian general would be in charge of the forces given to him for the pacification of the US.

China would be their war machine and the Chinese the supply of cannon fodder. Russian special forces would be used for small critical engagements. Europe would supply the air power, though I would guess that it wouldnt be European pilots.

In this hypothetical situation the UN would be used as a mechanism to organize the military forces against the US. In the US our own government would bail and a provisional government would be the enemy. The first real government we would have in the last 100 years or so.

If the US were to lose this war, we would be divided into military zones of governance with a Russian general at the helm. The US would then be organized according to Agenda 21 plans as a wild life reserve and serve as bread basket to the world. In essence we would be disarmed and made to revert to our agricultural roots.

Only a fraction of the population would be necessary so the war before the fall would be drawn out artificially until our numbers were reduced.

Our own present government would be reinstated shortly after our pacification as per the rule of agreement between all world power. You take the country and the people but you cant touch me and my blood line. End of story.

Now, Do I think that will all happen. NO. Because anything planned is as good as a child´s bed time story. You could literally wipe your butt with the paper it is written on when everything changes as per "life".

What I think will happen is that Russia will take a more favorable light in world affairs. They were allowed to clean up every instance of their black market arms sales in the middle east for example. The US was not. Hence why we wanted air strikes. We are going to be made into something ugly and repulsive to the world.

Then perhaps the UN will take on an Eastern European direction. Wealth will flow there and the interests protected will surround that area of influence.

I say good. Russia can have the big boy seat. They can also pay the price for world leader. Lets see how the Russian and Chinese century turns out.....lol

The US needs a couple hundred years "vacation". We need to pull a "UK", and just grow a little spiritually without the empire behind us calling us to arms or sacrifice.

I dont know if that was what you were looking for, but thats what I say.

edit on 9 12 2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

Very well put.

the Russians are already in a non-combat war with the USA...'west'

the BRICS nations are amassing gold bullion
the BRICS have many trade swaps using each others currencies instead of USDs
the Petro-Dollar is being disused and circumvented by Russia primarily with trade in Iranian energy

the BRICS are in the process of creating an alternative to the IMFR & World Bank & the BIS that are tied to the wester financial system with the BRICS development bank who is ramping up the replacement to USD as the present global reserve currency
USA hegemony is being systematically undermined or otherwise eroded away,...
money, gold, finance, energy resources, moral leadership, business leadership are all in decline
even missile development by Russia is stages ahead of the USA with Aircraft Carrier-Killer weapons now in service


there is an asymetrical attack on many fronts between Russia-USA going on...
Mother Russia vs, the 'homeland'...

i am giving more & more thought to taking a vacation over to Lithuania, perhaps a 6 month stint at first & maybe get a 1st hand experience of the zeitgeist over there & in Belarus

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Its not going to happen the way everyone thinks it will.. At least that is what history tells us. War is more then a black and white ordeal. I am listening or reading what everyone has to say or think about what if USA and Russia, went to war, and I am hearing all the cookie cutter responses, noway they attack america the will die etc. etc. Red dawn never happen etc.

WW3, in my opinion will be started by a country that thinks or has a overwhelming advantage over the other.. Whether it be because say America, gets hit by a comet, some kind of earthquake that takes out our infrastructure etc. Or say some kind of cyber attack takes out NATO, nations ability to use electricity, control ships communicate whatever, see where I am getting?

Its not going to be something like a war in the trenches from back in ww1 etc. Those days are gone for now.. Maybe after we destroy our dreams to reach for the stars once again we will fight in trenches once again...

Mankind, in my opinion continues not to see the point, mankind once again thinks himself more important then his creator/creation he exists in, and once again we are on the fringes of destruction, and to my frustration, I do not think I will see any answers to our existence in my life, nor my childrens, nor my childrens, children, but if a war with Russia, was to emerge over this bullcrap in the Middle east, I suggest you cherish your computer, and laptop, and all the wonderful technology your enjoying...

reply to post by St Udio


Might not be a terrible idea.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


The movie Heavy Metal.

An animated classic from the 80's.

Jordan River
Russia could destroy u.s.
Now hold on it is for one reason only, chinas super weapon emp. A emp that hit the nation. That is the entire u.s would paralyze us and russia with china troops in there carrier would invade. Other tha that. Everyone gets nuked

exactly.. the equalizer to American tech power... the emp combined with the CHINA made chips in US fighter jets, missiles, etc.(btw, what idiot would buy military microchips from them?)

the Chinese and Russians would be like "hug, no power, oh well back to normal"
many of them are subsistence based. What % of the people in R and C grow their own food.

Americans would be so busy looting for food., we would be screwed.

I like how people seem to think the following if a war like this started:

1. Basic military tactics do not apply. It would be easy for an invading country to transport and stage the equipment needed.

2. An EMP will knock out every piece of American military equipment no matter where it is on the planet and only the American gear.

3. Basic military tactics again do not apply. Ocean on the east coast, ocean on the west coast, 50% of southern coast is water and an allied nation to the North. Oh wait, 8million chinarussians will come in through mexico and we wont do anything about it because item 2 took place.

This all makes for solid b rate movies unless you are one of the people here on ATS hoping it happens then it seems entirely plausible.

hope they dont use chemical wepons,, cause, according to the U.N,, the Sarin Rockets WERE INDEED of Russian,, make. So if the Rocket is Russian,,, is the Saren Gas that Sadam had ,,actually Russian Chemical Wepons ,,not American as everyone was led to believe?

opethPA
I like how people seem to think the following if a war like this started:

1. Basic military tactics do not apply. It would be easy for an invading country to transport and stage the equipment needed.

2. An EMP will knock out every piece of American military equipment no matter where it is on the planet and only the American gear.

3. Basic military tactics again do not apply. Ocean on the east coast, ocean on the west coast, 50% of southern coast is water and an allied nation to the North. Oh wait, 8million chinarussians will come in through mexico and we wont do anything about it because item 2 took place.

This all makes for solid b rate movies unless you are one of the people here on ATS hoping it happens then it seems entirely plausible.

If you bring in military, logistical, command and control and geo-political realities into the coversations it ruins it. This a time to come out with the most fantastical ideas you can. EMP weapons, death rays, 2 million Russian troops hiding in the mountains of Mexico, Russian UFOs from their moon base etc.