Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I am not judging anyone, all I am trying to say is if one is an atheist they don't believe in heaven , right?

His statement doesn't add up for an atheist point of view, or a Christians point of view, and archaic or not, he supposedly is the mouthpiece for what it says.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I appreciate the Pope's stance in the matter because he has made it very clear that he judges no one and neither should we. Isn't that good enough?

That's all fine and dandy until an author publishes an article taking his words out of context and titles it the opposite of which the Pope probably intended, which I think is the real problem here.

This is how I interpreted his comments, in plain English:

It doesn't matter if you follow a religion in life, so long as you live your life with good intentions and a good heart towards others. If there happens to be a Big Hippie waiting at the end, he will either approve or disapprove of how you lived life based on what good or bad you did. If you happen to say "Whoops! You do exist, sorry about that!" = bonus points.

I'm not religious, and find it as childish as believing in Santa coming down the chimney, but the pope's point of view is one I can respect. Live & let live, and live with heart is a philosophy any religious leader worth his salt should preach first & foremost. I think Francis nailed it.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Hell as i understand it is Gehenna, Where the Canaanites sacrificed children by fire, then another word used as hell is sheol which means the grave.

I spent some time reading books on Biblical minimalism and maximalism, and archeology, written by the experts on these topics they mostly agree the Biblical texts are pretty accurately passed down.

As far as the Vatican archives go, yes, these men are scholars and I bet he knows the true translation of hell.

reply to post by Nyiah

This is how I interpreted his comments, in plain English:

It doesn't matter if you follow a religion in life, so long as you live your life with good intentions and a good heart towards others. If there happens to be a Big Hippie waiting at the end, he will either approve or disapprove of how you lived life based on what good or bad you did. If you happen to say "Whoops! You do exist, sorry about that!" = bonus points.

I'm not religious, and find it as childish as believing in Santa coming down the chimney, but the pope's point of view is one I can respect. Live & let live, and live with heart is a philosophy any religious leader worth his salt should preach first & foremost. I think Francis nailed it.

Amen to that, sister!

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Nyiah

 

Amen to that, sister!

You said amen, lol

reply to post by stormdancer777

I am not judging anyone, all I am trying to say is if one is an atheist they don't believe in heaven , right?

His statement doesn't add up for an atheist point of view, or a Christians point of view, and archaic or not, he supposedly is the mouthpiece for what it says.

If I don't believe in jail, that's doesn't stop it from being there when I arrive in handcuffs, right? Same goes for heaven.

reply to post by windword

So, according to the Pope, believers, atheists and non believers alike, will all be judged according to their following the truth that God put in their hearts during their lifetime. So, in another words, an atheist or an agnostic will be judged according to their conscience and their works in life.

That's the real question here. Is that what the Pope really meant or is that just the way the author of this article perceived him to say?

reply to post by AfterInfinity



I believe god looks at the heart and have often thought whether Christian or not a just god would have to forgive all of humanity.

Knowing we are all imperfect.

I do believe in a creator.

And I do believe mixed with all the things people hate about the Bible are beautiful passages that are valuable wisdom teachings.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Deetermined
reply to post by windword

 

So, according to the Pope, believers, atheists and non believers alike, will all be judged according to their following the truth that God put in their hearts during their lifetime. So, in another words, an atheist or an agnostic will be judged according to their conscience and their works in life.

That's the real question here. Is that what the Pope really meant or is that just the way the author of this article perceived him to say?

Yea, I am not sure about the quote, I should go do some research.

reply to post by AfterInfinity



So you ? huh? think god will arrest you?

force you to go to heaven?

Heaven to me is earth without the negative.

Deetermined
reply to post by windword

 

So, according to the Pope, believers, atheists and non believers alike, will all be judged according to their following the truth that God put in their hearts during their lifetime. So, in another words, an atheist or an agnostic will be judged according to their conscience and their works in life.

That's the real question here. Is that what the Pope really meant or is that just the way the author of this article perceived him to say?

Well, this is what THE POPE said,

: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

That's a direct quote, not an interpretation by the author of the article.

Since an atheist won't be going to God in life, but WILL, according to Christian belief, go to God after death, what else could the Pope mean?

For those who are interested in reading Pope Francis' comments in context, here is the English translation of his letter, which was written in response to the newspaper's editor having written an editorial in August, posing questions to the Pope.

reply to post by windword

go to him

That is the point I made, obviously an atheist isn't going to go to him/God and remain an atheist.

For anyone interested, here's a copy of the letter that the Pope wrote in order to try and judge for themselves what he's saying or not saying.

www.repubblica.it...

windword
Well, this is what THE POPE said,

: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

That's a direct quote, not an interpretation by the author of the article.

Since an atheist won't be going to God in life, but WILL, according to Christian belief, go to God after death, what else could the Pope mean?

That's how I interpreted it as well. According to Christians beliefs, there's a Head Honcho waiting to look over your life history. So by all accounts, everyone will be in front of him to have your life scrutinized, and you either walk away with a thumbs up or a thumbs down. I can't see how this could be interpreted any other way.

wrabbit2000
reply to post by stormdancer777

 

That's part of what has always, strongly, turned me off of Christianity on any level. Right there.

"Not all Christians believe...." Well, it's an odd thing, but the Cafeteria style 'I'll take some of that, but none of this other thing' approach to Scripture and the teachings from it seem so arbitrary and convenient to whatever each person deems comfy to accept? It's thrown me for taking what many call Christianity seriously at all.

I don't mean offense, and I hope you know that...It's just that I have never looked at the Bible as a "choose your own adventure" type book to develop one's own sub-Faith with?

Christianity, the Bible is the PRIME EXAMPLE of "choose your own faith" religion.

Catholicism - 1.2 billion
Protestantism - 600–800 million
Eastern Orthodoxy - 230 million
Anglicanism - 85 million
Oriental Orthodoxy - 82 million
Restorationism - 49 million
Church of the East - 0.6 million
Unitarian Universalism - 0.6 million

Those are the major denominations of Christianity, each of them countless (and yes I am literally talking hundreds) of sub-denomination. I don't think I need to play a "know-it-all" and link to Wikipedia since I am pretty certain you will know all that already. But just for information:

en.wikipedia.org...

Let me just pick some of them I have personal experience with, Catholicism, Protestantism, Baptism (which is a sub-tree of protestantism I just learned)...all obviously read the bible the way they like it and also interpret it (and their faith) so.

How very different Catholicism and Protestantism are...i can relate to this best since in the society I was raised this was the predominant two. Significant differences. My wife's parents are baptists, ALSO Christians. What an extreme difference to the faith I was raised up with...etc..etc...

So...yes, choose your own adventure...you are free to do so. Doesn't make that X or Y does it right or "reads the bible in the right way"...but countless chosen "sub-Faiths" are a reality and I am a little puzzled that your reply sounded as if you were entirely unaware of that.

May I ask about your history BEFORE you were wiccan? I have a reason to ask this..because many "disgruntled" and former Christians "became wiccans" and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a similar history. You still seem to defend and believe in many dogmas of the RCC and I simply can't see this being the case if you hadn't some Christian "experiences" in your past. As mentioned earlier, you "defending" some dusty things there puzzles me more than anything.

reply to post by Cuervo



Sadly witches,( most who are not really witches, BTW), have been singled out and burned or killed, even in Native American cultures.

Maybe they were called sorcerers or some were just mentally ill or if someone got sick and died a person would be accused, it has been going on forever.

reply to post by NoRulesAllowed


I understand the many denominations and that is why I went in search for truth many years ago, a personally journey, after attending many different churches, I wasn't satisfied with the teachings.

So I tried to journey back through the ancient teachings in pursuit of truth,

God is love.

Men always screw things up.

reply to post by Deetermined


After reading the letter, I'm not quite sure how the author came to his own conclusions.

All I got from reading this was the Pope saying in summary, "I will no longer be telling anyone what the "absolute truth" is even though it's not subjective or variable." In other words, "draw your own conclusions, but I won't be taking responsibility for it".

What did others get out of this?