Thought game: What would a future revolutionary/civil war in the US look like (2020-2030)?

Maybe this is way to simplistic or not what your looking for but:

Economic colapse and government freezes. Or government goes haywire because they are caught red handed being so corrupt they must be replaced. The scenarios for civil unrest is why no one would want to overthrow our government when they do commit crimes - we need them. But...assume they are out of business for awhile.

Rogue groups already present in US see an opportunity. People are in distress so easy to manipulate and/or control - promises of basic needs while filling ear with what needs to happen to take back country. Maybe 2-3 extremest working from the angle of take over to reorganize - thinking they have the best solution. If oppose them seen as either on side of government thats left or an opponent group. It would be all about resources - each group paranoid that the other being in control would leave them without. If control is up for grabs I believe this would happen.

Groups who are ok - will weather the storm keep to themselves (to protect selves from civil unrest, theft). May need to eventually fight back because not belonging to a group leaves them vulnerable. If no group is started for "just leave me alone" mentality they wpuld need to join another to have any protection (most would). Safety in numbers, etc.

For sure drug cartels and rogue nations would exploit this. That one is a given. Because they have lots of money already (cartels), and weapons, they could easily terrorize. But I dont see that bringing the other extremest groups together.

This is all assuming it was a free for all. Military, even if not paid I believe wouldn't let this happen. If control of weapons caches was at all compromised thats a problem. If military also sees corruption as too extreme they may abandon the institution of government. If they did this, no more access to those weapons. Really unlikely but there it is.

Well your best bet is to have some large scale disaster maybe large meteor strike that wrecks the bread belt. You would also want to have a scenerio where DC was destroyed by a snuck in nuke so you could leave huge leadership void. Also you could have the US be in some sort of large scale global conflict that would get rid of lots of US troops and require conscrition. With food shortages, a power vaccum, unpopular conscrition and a reduced military you would have the ability to attempt to give a real reason for unrest and at least a chance for it to survive. As for outside support, anybody who was at war with US in the global conflict.

reply to post by MrSpad


Yeah it will be a perfect storm, but the great thing about the format is that we can give as little or as much information as we want. Hint at the cause, but it will take place after the start of the conflict and follow fighters. Obviously they won't constantly be discussing what happened. It's just a realistic look at their lives.

Thanks for responding.

reply to post by Dianec


It wont be like a national collapse. Most of the US will function business as usual (well business as usual in a depression atmosphere - with increased violence, but they keep their jobs and work, etc). The rebels will count in the tens of thousands, but in groups of 10-20 spread out everywhere.

I am most interested in who the US would have fight a movement of, what they call, domestic terrorists. Who do you think would be involved in hunting down and fighting these groups? Is it legal, and would the government use our army/marines in the US? I imagined it would be a military police/atf/fbi/cia and if it got too out of hand maybe the US brings in NATO forces or UN.

reply to post by GoldnGone


Thanks for the reply. My real questions are the ones posted in the OP though. I am most interested in who would fight the rebels in the US. The military isn't meant to fight domestically, would an exception be made (is it legal)? Would anyone aid rebels? I think some military would join them.

AlienScience
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

You would first have to define what the cause of the civil unrest is, and then you would have more of an idea about your other answers.

All your questions depends on what scenario (out of millions) your story would be based on for the cause of the civil unrest.

Yes, I'm quoting myself...but I think this really needs to be answered before attempting to answer any of the other questions.

For example, your first question "Who are the players?"

Depending on the cause, it could be:


Blue Collar vs White Collar
Christians vs Muslims
Christians vs Atheists/Secularists
Veterans vs Anti-War/Soldier Advocates
Capitalist vs Socialist
Conservative vs Liberal
Republican vs Democrat
Republican/Democrat vs Third Party
North vs South (or any other geographical combination)
Urban vs Rural
White Extremist vs Minority Extermist
Wealthy vs Rich
Corporate vs Government
State vs Federal
State vs State
Natives vs Immigrants
Criminal Syndicate vs Law Enforcement (Current State Mexico)
Foreign Interests backed vs United States Government
"Patriots" vs Anyone they claim isn't a patriot

The possibilities are endless, so until you define what the "conflict" is that is causing your fictional civil war/revolution...your other questions are jumping the gun.

reply to post by AlienScience


It will be civilians v.s. whatever govt forces would most likely be used. That is why my first question was asking who the govt players would be. It is more a revolutionary war.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Dianec

 

It wont be like a national collapse. Most of the US will function business as usual (well business as usual in a depression atmosphere - with increased violence, but they keep their jobs and work, etc). The rebels will count in the tens of thousands, but in groups of 10-20 spread out everywhere.

I am most interested in who the US would have fight a movement of, what they call, domestic terrorists. Who do you think would be involved in hunting down and fighting these groups? Is it legal, and would the government use our army/marines in the US? I imagined it would be a military police/atf/fbi/cia and if it got too out of hand maybe the US brings in NATO forces or UN.

Well numbers like that are not a real threat so it would be most likely handled by joint task force most likely headed by the FBI counter terrorism people and would include ATF and DHS but, most of the groud work would be done by local and state law enforcement. If they are being funded by outsiders a seperate working group of CIA/NSA/State/DHS and DoD would be formed to cut off funds and deal with whomever was providing them. The real problem would be that the population would be not supportive of terrorist style strikes so these groups would be quick and easy to pick off, even more so if they had outside support because they would be easly be labled as a tool of an outside power.

reply to post by MrSpad


I figure that it an atmosphere where there will be a lot of people turning the rebels in, but also support. Like it's big enough that there are tens of thousands of these groups and a sort of underground railroad for them, but they are being busted regularly. Sort of like if occupy (but not occupy, let that be clear) fought. The people would be very disenchanted with the government, the rebels would not target civilians at all and that would be obvious and discussed online. Some people would buy the terrorist line by the media, some would not. It would be in a future where martial law is likely in parts of the country due to some devastating attack that led to a war. So the country would be in disarray before the rebellion. There also would be some kind of attack on protestors and civilians locked up that led to the attack (I don't want to reveal too much of the plot online, I assure there will be some very interesting ideas and scenes that will make it a very interesting watch, and it will appeal to more than just the ats crowd).

We are talking about a future where there are so many problems that rebellion by a small portion of the population is more likely than not.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by AlienScience

 

It will be civilians v.s. whatever govt forces would most likely be used. That is why my first question was asking who the govt players would be. It is more a revolutionary war.

You would still need a cause.

The "government" are just people and citizens like you and me...something is going to have to cause two or more groups against each other.

If it is taxes, and your little rebel group plans on attacking IRS agents...you are going to be viewed as wackos. If it is about guns and you target ATF agents, you are going to still be viewed as wackos. You will be targeting humans, no matter what, you will be viewed as murderers...vigilantes at best.

Unless you have a good cause besides "government is evil"...no one is going to support you.

MrSpad

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Dianec

 

It wont be like a national collapse. Most of the US will function business as usual (well business as usual in a depression atmosphere - with increased violence, but they keep their jobs and work, etc). The rebels will count in the tens of thousands, but in groups of 10-20 spread out everywhere.

I am most interested in who the US would have fight a movement of, what they call, domestic terrorists. Who do you think would be involved in hunting down and fighting these groups? Is it legal, and would the government use our army/marines in the US? I imagined it would be a military police/atf/fbi/cia and if it got too out of hand maybe the US brings in NATO forces or UN.

Well numbers like that are not a real threat so it would be most likely handled by joint task force most likely headed by the FBI counter terrorism people and would include ATF and DHS but, most of the groud work would be done by local and state law enforcement. If they are being funded by outsiders a seperate working group of CIA/NSA/State/DHS and DoD would be formed to cut off funds and deal with whomever was providing them. The real problem would be that the population would be not supportive of terrorist style strikes so these groups would be quick and easy to pick off, even more so if they had outside support because they would be easly be labled as a tool of an outside power.

With groups that small...it would also fall mostly on local police departments. Then once they go to do their job and the "rebels" start killing police officers, they have no support.

This is the biggest problem with people thinking there is going to be a revolution...they ignore the fact that they are talking about killing people. And not just people, but American citizens. If their beef is with the government, and they are committing illegal acts, the local police WILL be involved in apprehending them...there is no way around that.

Once they start killing local police officers, that is someone's dad, brother, husband, friend, local familiar face...they lose all support no matter what their "cause" is.

Notice that the OP is doing everything he can to avoid identifying what the "cause" of the revolution is and who the targeted "enemy" would be. Anyway you cut it, the OP is talking about killing American citizens and that is just not going to fly.

reply to post by AlienScience


I know, there is a cause, but we are keeping the plot under wraps. I'm not trying to rewrite the script here, just get some ideas. I think Mr. Spad gets it and is on the same track as me.

reply to post by AlienScience


Obviously there will be civilians killed first that causes a national reaction. Police families of course will care, but the majority of the population arw becoming completely fed up with police and in this fictional world it will have reached the tipping point as far as police are concerned.

Keep in mind this is fiction. Not a prediction.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by AlienScience

 

I know, there is a cause, but we are keeping the plot under wraps. I'm not trying to rewrite the script here, just get some ideas. I think Mr. Spad gets it and is on the same track as me.

It better be a really good cause like the government is rounding up all first born males and executing them...or else you have zero support.

Don't take offense to this, but releasing your "plot" doesn't really matter...no one wants it or is going to steal it...and it is very unlikely that your story goes anywhere beyond you and your friend and maybe a couple websites.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Obviously there will be civilians killed first that causes a national reaction. Police families of course will care, but the majority of the population arw becoming completely fed up with police and in this fictional world it will have reached the tipping point as far as police are concerned.

Keep in mind this is fiction. Not a prediction.

edit on 10-9-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Then make it fiction, don't try to tie it into America...America is too complex for you to come up with a convincing story, there will be holes and it will make for a bad story. Create a new fake country or a post-America world where a new government has taken control.

This is why when you see "revolution" movies...it is post-America. Like the TV Series Revolution, or Movies like The Postman, Hunger Games, even 1984 and V for Vendetta(England in these cases)...America is gone in those stories for a reason, there is no good way to present a modern day revolution in an established Western world and make it believable. Many talented writers have tried, none have been successful.

reply to post by AlienScience


That's your opinion and obviously you are a pessimist. However you don't know either of us. One of our friends is touring film festivals with her film raking in awards. My friend graduated magna cum laude for film at a very good film school and I have plenty of experience writing and having stories published. We both have friends in thw film industry (actually people that have probably had thwir worj seen in your home) So I don't need you projecting your own negative world experience on us. We know how to do this. I just thought it would be a fun experience to share with ATS.

reply to post by AlienScience



In the stories you speak of, America is gone, but it didnt just disappear one day. This is part of the story of how it ended up gone. The story and plot are solid, if you sont have anythin constructivw to add then why bother? I could twll from your first post you were itching to try to rain on someone's parade. Unfortunately for you, this isn't a high school project. It has funding and people who have made films before and know what they are doing working on it.

The plot is solid and yes people do oftwn steal ideas. Im not posting the plot to a film we are working on on a forun like this. Many, many films are gleaned from the internet nowadays. Ever been to "you though we wouldnt notice?" I personally know people who have had their work plundered and plagiarised. We know how we are doibg the film. I guess if you can't add to the thread, sit back and wait for the show.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


From your OP.

However any and all suggestions are welcome

I guess that really isn't true.

Have fun with your project.

If you are so sensitive about criticism of huge holes in your general idea, then I really don't know why you asked for suggestions.

reply to post by AlienScience


There are no holes in the idea, let alone huge ones. I haven't given the concept or plot here, for good reason. If you have any sort imagination and common sense then it shouldnt be required. Also, all ideas are welcome in regards to the questions posed. You haven't really sone anything except as more questions and inexplicably assume that no one will see the series and it will never see fruition. I'm sorry you have such a negative view of things. Ideas are welcome, nonsensical criticism is just a waste of my time and yours. I'm sorry that you are compelled to be negative and condescending (Have fun with your project? This is what we went to school for, its more than a project), I hope you can get over that personality flaw one day. I'm sure it is a hinderance in your personal relationships.
Try to have a good day.

May I ask where you will be shooting the film? As in what region of the US, and if it'll be urban or rural or a mix of both?