Homosexuality And Christianity; I don't believe Jesus of the Bible would judge you harshly

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean you aren't affected by its presence.

I find your argument illogical, but not necessarily your premise.

reply to post by Metallicus


i understand your point, i didn't know how better to explain it, or make it more logical

James God doesn't believe he is a sinner, Johns God believes James is a sinner, is James a sinner?

colbe



Two verses in Scripture show UNREPENTANT sodomites are in hell. Do not tolerate the lies of Satan,
even if all the world approves and these end days, they makes sodomy legal. You do not know your last day, get right with God.

Catholics have to do more than a truly repentant personal confession to God, they must go to Confession.

~ ~ ~




2 Peter 2:4-6
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments, to be reserved unto judgment: 5 And spared not the original world, but preserved Noe, the eighth person, the preacher of justice, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly. 6 And reducing the cities of the Sodomites, and of the Gomorrhites, into ashes, condemned them to be overthrown, making them an example to those that should after act wickedly.


2 Peter 2:4-6: Peter also reveals that the Sodomites are suffering in hell for their sins by comparing the Sodomites’ punishment to the eternal punishment of the evil angels. Just as God did not spare the angels when they sinned but cast them into hell, so He did the same with the Sodomites when He “condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly.”


Jude 5
I will therefore admonish you, though ye once knew all things, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, did afterwards destroy them that believed not: 6 And the angels who kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation, he hath reserved under darkness in everlasting chains, unto the judgment of the great day. 7 As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighboring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.


Jude 5-7: Like Peter, Jude confirms that the Sodomites are in hell by saying that they had the same fate as the evil angels. Jude says just as the evil angels were condemned to hell, the Sodomites “likewise” (Greek, hos) acted immorally and are undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. “Undergoing” (Greek, upechousai) is a present participle which means their suffering is ongoing. See also the clear polarity between those who are saved (v.5) and those who are condemned (vv. 6-7,11,13).

www.brutallyhonest.org...

Your interpretation of these verses is quite different from mine. Before the time of Noah, fallen angels took the daughters of men and they bore the Nephalim. This was an abomination and the reason for the flood. The men of Sodom saw the angels and wanted them. They desired them because they were 'beautiful'. It had nothing to do with homosexuality. It was the abomination of the 'sin of strange flesh', meaning humans mixing with angel, just as in the days of Noah. This entire episode should be looked at in context but, it has been taken out of context to condemn homosexuality. The scripture in Jude you quoted specifically mentions the people of Sodom desiring the angels. Humans and angels were not to be mixed. The story of Sodom and Gomorrha have been totally taken out of context.

reply to post by wildtimes


Exactly!

Homosexuality is a genetic, inborn condition, no matter how much you'd like for it to NOT be that. It is.
People are BORN that way.

I'll bet that in reality there are many, many more people in society, with same sex physical attraction to one another, than we are led to believe. For the life of me, I could NEVER be intimate, in that way, with another woman. The thought is repulsive to me. FOR ME. But I'm not offended that others ARE attracted to each other. And, since I'm not a man, and have always been attracted to men, I've always kind of understood the male/male attraction. (maybe there is a trinity after all!)

So, these people who think that everyone can turn off these kinds of attractions are nothing like me. They must have these attraction themselves, and have the ability to stuff those feeling, and hit the abort switch.

But, that's the way it was in earlier times. One was constricted by their culture, If I was the son of a shepherd, I couldn't just decide to become a tailor, because I was fabulous with fabric! lol

I'm so glad that we have progressed enough so that the majority of people still value the individual over the collective.

reply to post by Khaleesi


I will also add that it is the Church who named the act of male on male sex Sodomy. Sodom in Hebrew means "burnt" and Gomorrah means "Ruined Heap" which is interesting considering what happened to them. They lived in the land of the Canaanites and we know that the Israelites after they left Egypt said there were giants in the land which meant the fallen angels had made some more giants by mixing with the humans.

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were given over to pursuing the acts with the fallen ones, and this is why the town was destroyed, and why God commanded Israel to kill every man, woman, child, herd in Canaan. They were hybrids.

Darth_Prime
reply to post by colbe

 

You may be told to believe i am an abomination, and my sexuality a Sin, but that is not my reality, nor my belief so which is correct? you say it's your god, someone says it's their god, you say all sinners are abominations and all people sin, yet straight people are not abominations?

Straight people are abominations, because we have sinned too. I have committed alot of adultery, and violence, and to this day I covet and get jealous that rappers are rich and brag about it, and I say "why can't I be rich!?"

We all sin, so you're no different than the rest of the world. And God loves you especially, so you're no different. Just a special and unique child of God.

Glynda is a Protestant messenger, her messages are shared on a couple of Catholic prophecy sites. She has
her own blog too. www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com...

LOVE the sinner, not the grave sin (meaning mortal to your eternal life) that is sodomy. Sodomy comes from the word Sodom. God's just judgment came to Sodom and it is coming to our country. Our country has legalized abominable mortal sins against God.

Get right with God, repent, confess any mortal sins to God and pray.

~ ~ ~

Wednesday, September 11, 2013
You Are Nothing Without Me

America is in trouble, for she has gone the way of the harlots and no longer feels any shame for her misdeeds. She is prideful and boasts of her great power and for this reason, I shall cast her power to the ground and it shall become as nothing. No longer shall she lord her might over the poor and downtrodden.

America boasts of being a savior of others, yet she cannot save herself. She has not rescued herself from moral decay and the filth of her sins. Nay, she proudly displays them, passing laws for all to see her shamefulness.

You have turned from My ways, America, and now I shall turn from you. You will see that you are nothing without Me, the God of Israel. Your sins have become your gods, so I will give you to them, that you may see what you have chosen.

Those who lead you shall err and lead you into destruction, for this is My plan. ....

+ + +

Pope Francis said it best .... ATS Thread - Pope Francis on Homosexuals .. 'who am I to judge'??

I've seen posters here at ATS ... some who have posted on this very thread ... run around and call homosexuals deviants ... call homosexuals perverts ... call homosexuals willful sinners destined for hell ... and a whole lot of other nasty things ... and tell them that they must not love God because they are homosexual.

SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE. Judging and daring to put themselves in God's place.

And as far as what was brought up about homosexuals committing suicide because they are homosexual .... I"m wondering how many of them wouldn't be thinking about killing themselves if the self righteous ninnies who went around telling them that they were hell bound sinning deviants would just shut the hell up. Anyone who has said that about, or to, homosexual people is guilty of being a mindless bully.

Take a clue from Pope Francis. DO NOT JUDGE HOMOSEXUALS. Do not put yourself in God's place. Just pray for people. And if you can't do that ... then close your pie hole.

colbe
Glynda is a Protestant messenger, her messages are shared on a couple of Catholic prophecy sites. She has
her own blog too. www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com...

LOVE the sinner, not the grave sin (meaning mortal to your eternal life) that is sodomy. Sodomy comes from the word Sodom. God's just judgment came to Sodom and it is coming to our country. Our country has legalized abominable mortal sins against God.

Get right with God, repent, confess any mortal sins to God and pray.

~ ~ ~

Wednesday, September 11, 2013
You Are Nothing Without Me

America is in trouble, for she has gone the way of the harlots and no longer feels any shame for her misdeeds. She is prideful and boasts of her great power and for this reason, I shall cast her power to the ground and it shall become as nothing. No longer shall she lord her might over the poor and downtrodden.

America boasts of being a savior of others, yet she cannot save herself. She has not rescued herself from moral decay and the filth of her sins. Nay, she proudly displays them, passing laws for all to see her shamefulness.

You have turned from My ways, America, and now I shall turn from you. You will see that you are nothing without Me, the God of Israel. Your sins have become your gods, so I will give you to them, that you may see what you have chosen.

Those who lead you shall err and lead you into destruction, for /She has not rescued herself from moral decay and the filth of her sins. Nay, she proudly displays them, passing laws for all to see her shamefulness.
This is My plan. ....

+ + +

The media was trying to trip Pope Francis up on Catholic teaching, they failed. God IS the judge and to live the teachings of Christ, you cannot support any Gay lobby. Read the Holy Father's entire quote.

Almost everyone realizes God is the judge, He' is the creator and only He knows our hearts and state of our souls. It has been revealed, God's judgment of our soul comes at the particular judgment, at our death. Prepare now for it, do not fall for the lie that sodomy is fine with God. Speak the Truth and do not remain silent.

Jesus speaks of "judgment" the kind we are suppose to show. John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge JUST judgment.

In this pro-Gay end time world, read the words of Our Lord (the underlined) and believe them.

reply to post by colbe


Am i ushering in the end times?

you are giving us homosexuals quite a lot of power

reply to post by Darth_Prime


No Darth, the end times are here, seems like the Great Tribulation already.

Darth,

Skip past the introductions and program commercials and listen to this priest speak about who God is and very simply about the greatest mystery...the Trinity. Their love for us is so strong and affirming, it doesn't matter about mean people, the crosses and sufferings here.

Please, anyone reading this thread. Listen, it will lighten your heart and your cross.

colbe said:
TJ,

I was thinking of you. Click on this link, and hit "listen" it's a Catholic Answers radio hour where people call in at a certain point with questions.

www.catholic.com...#

The subject is the Trinity. Skip past introductions and listen to young Father Gaitley help you and me
understand (simply stated) about the mystery of the Trinity. Then, people call in with questions.
You can listen and look at ATS, etc. I learned things.

Father loved this paragraph from Catechism. The Trinity is a communion of love...

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

#221
But St. John goes even further when he affirms that "God is love": God's very being is love. By sending his only Son and the Spirit of Love in the fullness of time, God has revealed his innermost secret: God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.


colbe

charles1952
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

Dear Darth_Prime,

That's a good start on a comprehensive listing of how people react to homosexuality. Do you mind if I babble a bit? It's stuff you've heard before, though.

It seems to me fairly obvious that all of us have one or more areas of weakness, some "sin type" that we're more susceptible to. Some have said they all boil down to a twisted or inflamed sense of pride, some say it's the desire to put something above God, but whatever, it's there. Anger, greed, lust, sloth, you know the list.

The Catholic Church (and I agree), says that God loves all of us, and if He does, then we should be following His example. We should help each other, and pray, that whatever their problem sin is, they can overcome it. The Church does not criticize any one for being homosexual, any more than they criticize someone who is fighting anger issues.

They do view sex outside of marriage as a sin. (Nope, I'm not going to get into the various distinctions) I find the Church's position to be both loving and hopeful, just and helpful.

With respect,
Charles1952

Thats where I disagree with you. The church is treating that person like they have a cold or something. Like they can just not be gay with the right training and counceling. Thats BS. That person is who they are. They shouldnt be treated like they are sick, because they arent. The catholic church can take whatever stance they want to not look like the a##hole, while still being an a##hole, that wont change the fact that person is gay. No amount of prayer or counceling will ever affect that person, they are who they are and "god" made them that way.

Lone12
reply to post by finalaccount2008

 

- that is a clear, kind post, FA

you know, this s not so much about homosexuality in perticular,
but about ánything that can keep a soul away from Him.
Anything, that is fortifying the Self of a person.

.. and that 'anything' can have myriad Forms -
who was struck down dead immediately, after his Self directly Opposed God ? - ananias
and why ? - Greed
..because Greed is , after Pride, thé archenemy of His love -which 'gives'

so, He is angry about "anything" which imprisons that soul,
....yet some of those things are móre Dangerous - because they imprison that soul Deeper - then others.

- a murderer may have acted out of heart insanity for a moment ;
and his soul is tortured by that 1 moment,
but yet he may be closer to Him, as a luxury living believer.

...years ago, i had a most Vivid dream ;
i entered underneath earth in a halfdark, castle-like large low cellar,
a fireplace gave golden shadows over the people sitting there to long wooden tables,
it had all a medeival sphere,
But with each of the persons was something Wrong ;
one was counting his golden money at the table, his hands were grotesque, as his eyes,
his nature had becóme 'greed' , and showed in the parts of his body
so each person had the Deformation, according to their sin

i knew it wasnt ' hell ' where i was,
but the [fleshy] natures of realtime people, above ground level
or, their Self
..and He expects from every believer to WANT [!] to get Rid of Self
- that is, ' agreeing that it needs to get Rid of '... so He can execute that.

..the danger of a soul, trying to Jústify [his] homosexuality is,
that the person will tálk about ' jesus' - yet never Meet Him.
Because his Self can talk about Him
even correctly
- yet his soul wont see Him.

i ve found, that there are many types of smaller 'entities' who can sustain many types of addictions and sins;
stealing...drinking...sleeping around...etc
- but those cannot Fortify the Self so much, as Pride...and homosexuality.
..since the both latter are the nature of the Fallen ones, themsélves.

i wish you best,

Wouldnt it imprison the soul to not be who you are therefore not being happy? I think that would make a person bitter and turn away from "god".

As the old quote goes:

Judge not, lest ye be judged. Condemn not, lest ye be condemned.

Most people in the west already knows about "Jesus", whether they choose to follow your sect of Christianity or not is up to them. That is their choice, free-will.

Instead of trying to tell someone to take a small splinter out of their eyes, maybe you should take the plank out of yours (paraphrasing the words of Jesus according to the bible). Instead of telling everyone else that they are sinful , how about you practice your religion and try not to sin yourself instead of trying to save everyone else? It's the blind leading the blind... "everybody is bad and they need to change" meanwhile they are so focused on others that they forget about their own behavior.

reply to post by Tylerdurden1

Dear Tylerdurden1,

Thanks for thinking about my post. it seems I wasn't all that clear in my writing, may I try to clarify something?

The church is treating that person like they have a cold or something. Like they can just not be gay with the right training and counceling. Thats BS. That person is who they are. They shouldnt be treated like they are sick, because they arent.

The Church recognizes that some have a sexual attraction to members of their own sex. That's not condemned, it's accepted as a reality of existence. The Church also recognizes that a far greater number have a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. Both of these are seen as facts and morally neutral.

You probably know that the Church condemns a man who is married yet has sex with many different women. It is all of the sex outside of the bounds of his marrige that the Church is objecting to.

The Church tells the straight man to control his sexual appetities, just as we are to have control over our appetites for food and wine. I think you'll agree that we have to be able to control our words, our anger, all of our passions.

In the same way, the Church tells the gay man to control his passions, keep them within the bounds of God's law.

The Church doesn't see gays as sick. They are certainly different from the average, but as humans they face the same temptations and struggles as straights. The Church is there to provide a way to repair a relationship with God which we broke through our acts and the thoughts we encourage in ourselves.

The Church and her teachings tell me it is wrong to condemn my brothers and sisters because of their attractions. Actually, it tells me that it is wrong for me to condemn any person. It does, however, allow (and, indeed, require) condemnation of certain actions. The difference between the person and his actions are important. Only God can judge the person.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Does the church condone sex between two men or women who are married to each other? Or is married gay sex still a sin in the eyes of the church?

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

If two men, or two women, can enter into marriage, then sexual relations between them are not sinful. But can they? The question is "What is marriage?"

ARTICLE 7
THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY

1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."

1602 Sacred Scripture begins with the creation of man and woman in the image and likeness of God and concludes with a vision of "the wedding-feast of the Lamb." Scripture speaks throughout of marriage and its "mystery," its institution and the meaning God has given it, its origin and its end, its various realizations throughout the history of salvation, the difficulties arising from sin and its renewal "in the Lord" in the New Covenant of Christ and the Church.

1603 "The intimate community of life and love which constitutes the married state has been established by the Creator and endowed by him with its own proper laws. . . . God himself is the author of marriage." The vocation to marriage is written in the very nature of man and woman as they came from the hand of the Creator. Marriage is not a purely human institution despite the many variations it may have undergone through the centuries in different cultures, social structures, and spiritual attitudes. These differences should not cause us to forget its common and permanent characteristics. Although the dignity of this institution is not transparent everywhere with the same clarity, some sense of the greatness of the matrimonial union exists in all cultures. "The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family life."

1604 God who created man out of love also calls him to love the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being. For man is created in the image and likeness of God who is himself love. Since God created him man and woman, their mutual love becomes an image of the absolute and unfailing love with which God loves man. It is good, very good, in the Creator's eyes. And this love which God blesses is intended to be fruitful and to be realized in the common work of watching over creation: "And God blessed them, and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it.'"

1605 Holy Scripture affirms that man and woman were created for one another: "It is not good that the man should be alone." The woman, "flesh of his flesh," his equal, his nearest in all things, is given to him by God as a "helpmate"; she thus represents God from whom comes our help. "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." The Lord himself shows that this signifies an unbreakable union of their two lives by recalling what the plan of the Creator had been "in the beginning": "So they are no longer two, but one flesh."

www.vatican.va...

A divorced Catholic may not remarry if their spouse is alive, unless the first marriage was found to be null and void. A man may not marry another a marriage with another man. Whether the state calls it a marriage or not is irrelevant. The Church explains what a marriage is in the eyes of God, and gays can't enter into that marriage, so sex between two gays is outside of marriage.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I guess, that given what you've stated, that the church acknowledges both hetero and homosexual attraction as normal then, right? So, in the eyes of the church, gay sex is tantamount to adultery.

It's just too bad that God created some people who will never have to "right" to experience physical love, while he created some who do, in the churches eyes.

Can a sexually active young bachelor still receive the Eucharist? Can a divorced and remarried person receive the Eucharist? Can a married gay couple, albeit outside of the church, receive the Eucharist?

reply to post by charles1952


Wait, I thought the church didnt allow gay marriage. So if two gay people were to get married, they would be lumped more closely to stright people, therfore becoming just like everyone else?

I dont see it as a sin, so thats what I got from your post.