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New book: 'Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver'

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posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:21 PM
Ah, so there's a new book coming out soon about Moses. This book looks like it will explain where the Moses myth originated and the evolution on how it found its way into the bible:

Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver

The Moses-Dionysus Connection

Mainstream scholarship: Abraham and Moses mythicism is respectable

posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:25 PM
reply to post by GoldenKnight

Can you please post some of what was said on the websites, some background?

As opposed to just links.

posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 01:33 PM
reply to post by FreedomEntered

I was going to originally, but figured I couldn't say it better than what was already posted in the links:

"I've been working on my new book Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver, which is coming along nicely, although it is much longer than I expected to do - what else is new? That happens with every project I set out on, because I try to be so thorough and incorporate as much of the research on a subject as I can humanly gather. In this popular subject, one can imagine there is a ton of material to sift through, in a variety of languages, dating back to remote ages. Most of my primary-source research for this project is in Greek, Hebrew and Latin, but there is also some relevant Ugaritic and other Semitic languages, as well as Egyptian, et al.

Although many scholars of the past century to today are clear on the mythical nature of the Exodus tale and the probable (to them) non-historicity of the Moses character, there are a number of historical or quasi-historical individuals and events that have gathered attention as the possible "real Moses" and "real Exodus." These events and individuals include, of course, the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, the Hyksos and Ahmose I, Osarseph and the lepers, etc. Thus, I spend much of the first part of the book addressing these issues, while the rest of my work provides the comparative religion and mythology.

For example, there is a lengthy section concerning the profound correspondences between the tales of Moses and the Greek god Dionysus. I have created one of my (in)famous lists featuring Dionysus's attributes in relation to the Moses myth, annotating each attribute with a primary source from antiquity, including the original Greek or other language as well. These parallels have been known for centuries by many among the elite; it is therefore disturbing that they are unknown and even hidden from the masses. Why aren't these similarities between Moses and the mythical figure of Dionysus being taught from the pulpit? Because the bibliolaters have a strict hold over the minds of the masses, unfortunately. Otherwise, these same masses could investigate this material with as much fascination as I do."

Book Cover:
edit on 6-9-2013 by GoldenKnight because: trying to get the image to work

edit on 6-9-2013 by GoldenKnight because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 02:04 PM
reply to post by GoldenKnight

Okay thanks very much. A lot of reading will sift through it later.
Well, I guess there will many differing opinions on this one.

posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 03:51 PM
Wow ..I was a little surprised about the author of this book so

"D. M. Murdock, better known[1][2] by her pen name Acharya S, is an American author and proponent of the Christ myth theory.[3] She has authored six books and operates a website named Truth be Known. She argues that Christianity is founded on earlier myths and the characters depicted in Christianity are based upon Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and other myths" Seems that she may be a member of The Kingdom Cults ...

edit ..there is a look at what she has written in the past for anyone interested
edit on 6-9-2013 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS
MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others
edit on Fri Sep 6 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 6 2013 @ 04:20 PM
Moses was most likely the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten in my opinion. He lived at the same time as Moses and was the first historical monotheist.

The Exodus is just a retelling of Akhenaten straying from the traditional Egyptian religion and establishing his own with Atenism. He was even erased from history until the 19th century, a perfect opportunity to change his identity and story and create a whole new sub-religion using his concepts in order to control people.

Once Akhenaten died, they used his son Tutankhamun to re-establish the previous religion of Amun-Ra, then they erased him from history and renamed him Moses and began the religion of Judaism using his concept of monotheism as its foundation.

posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 10:44 AM
reply to post by the2ofusr1

Most people who are not fundy Christian apologists already know never to trust that website tekton, or scum of the earth and loud mouth wretch, JP Holding. He has no qualifications whatsoever in any Biblical field, knows no Biblical languages, and has no relevant training, yet has the temerity to presume that his OPINION is enough, and that his personal FAITH is all that he needs, to offer vicious and vitriolic critique of credible scholars who are trained in this area. JP Holding has no training in comparative religion. No training in mythology. No training in archaeoastronomy. No training in astrotheology. Nothing relevant. JP Holding has zero credibility and was responded to long ago:

Shattering JP Holding's Anti-Mythicist book

Prove Jesus Existed, Please!

So lets allow Acharya's work stand or fall based on the merits of the evidence and case she presents without all the biased BS from known apologists who have no intention of ever being objective or honest.

Here are comments by other professional scholars who've actually read Acharya's work:

"Your scholarship is relentless! ...the research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration."
— Dr. Ken Feder, Professor of Archaeology

"I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations." "I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock"

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D's

Review of Acharya's book "Christ in Egypt"

"I can recommend your work whole-heartedly!"
— Dr. Robert Eisenman

"I've known people with triple Ph.D's who haven't come close to the scholarship in Who Was Jesus?"
— Pastor David Bruce, M.Div

"Thirty years ago, when in divinity school, I might have had second thoughts about becoming an Episcopal priest if a book like D.M. Murdock's 'Who Was Jesus?' had been available to me."
— Bob Semes, Retired university professor of History and Religion

"...I have found her scholarship, research, knowledge of the original languages, and creative linkages to be breathtaking and highly stimulating."
— Rev. Dr. Jon Burnham, Pastor, Presbyterian Church

"Acharya S has done a superb job in bringing together the rich panoply of ancient world mythology and culture, and presenting it in a comprehensive and compelling fashion."
— Earl Doherty

Emails I Have Loved

posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 11:05 AM
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Searching the thread for Akhenaten, I found this post:

"I've got a chapter on whether or not Moses was Akhenaten. The facts reveal that Moses is a fictional compilation of characters, mostly if not exclusively mythical, and the Akhenaten connection is superficial at best...."

posted on Sep, 7 2013 @ 07:10 PM
Some people on this forum think that I am crazy to give credence to the Septuagint being as authoritative as the so-called Hebrew Bible, but if you go to today's post on the site linked to in the OP, you see a reference to the book,

Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch,
Amazon book page (also available as an e-book on Google Books)

which says basically that the Pentateuch was probably originally written in Greek.
edit on 7-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 8 2013 @ 01:26 AM
Reading the preview of Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus on Google Books, the author mentions a few scholars before him tackling the problem of where the Old Testament came from, he gets to one who's essay got reprinted along with others in a book, Did Moses Speak Attic?: Jewish Historiography and Scripture in the Hellenistic Period which is also available on Google Books as an e-book, with a preview section.
It seems that the the Old Testament may have been a reaction by the Jews against the onslaught of Hellenism in defensive of their culture.
edit on 8-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 8 2013 @ 07:44 AM
reply to post by GoldenKnight
thanks for the reply ...Because I live on the Bay of Fundy and am a christian I will suppose you are correct that I don't know that that web site is not trust-able . Do you have any thing to back up what you are saying beside the Ad hominems ...I replied to this thread and didn't really bring much in the way of the book other then a wiki link to the author and a rebuttal from another site as to the accuracy of what they had written in the past . Your appeal to authority ie .PHDs is a logical fallaicy as far as I understand it .You seem to put a lot of trust in people of authority and discount the common person as if they can not think and make their own mind up .

In one of your other threads you wrote " We cannot win them over to our side by constantly insulting them and terrorizing them. That's not how one wins people over to our side. How many Christians have come to our side due to Dawkins? He's one of the most popular atheists but not popular among theists. We cannot get an "antagonistic and anti-Christian" mythicist position entry into dictionaries or encyclopedias - it will just be dismissed as "hostile" towards religion/Christianity and will only serve to create more divisiveness as well as lower the level of discourse. We need the direct oppose at this point in time.

Besides, Acharya's books certainly blast all the Abrahamic religions. So, it's not necessary, useful or beneficial to have a hateful position that theists will never pay any attention to. " But yet your first reply to me or to "fundy Christians " as you put it, is exactly what you condemn there .

It would seem that The Kingdom Cults change tack as time and study usually reveals the errors of their ways .Just like the Christ Myth claimed that Jesus didn't exist time and study shows that most that held to that in academia now admit that there was a Jesus person ..So the kingdom cults change tack and go at it from another angle ..Some of the actors and names may change but like your above quote shows it's plan is to get people to your side ... Oh and the link to the lovely emails is a cute addition ....

I want to add a post another member posted on his thread .. What we see is a true reaction of the human psyche, in response to a very real and very serious challenge to a belief-system.

If the information had been so easily falsifiable, perhaps we would not have encountered such degrees of anger and hostility as shown.

If this thread and its information can not be properly and thoroughly falsified, the psychological and emotional escalation due to the attachment of incorrect beliefs, if any occur, will be hate and violence to the messenger. That is why it becomes dangerous to debate such topics in a serious manner, in an open and public setting.

It takes a courageous person to question their understandings and beliefs, and to accept challenges to those understandings and beliefs, without resorting to negativity.

May Peace be upon us all. Keep your smile up Charles

posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 10:10 AM
I thought this was an interesting explanation for the "giants" or Nephilim in the Old Testament:

posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 11:02 AM

'Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver'

Answer - Maybe. But what really happened isn't what is written in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament story is not accurate. It was written by the Hebrews and so it's their folklore version of the events. The evidence strongly suggests that the Hebrews were NOT slaves in Egypt. It strongly suggests that the Egyptian Army was NOT wiped out in the Red Sea (or the Reed Sea either). There is NO EVIDENCE of millions of Hebrews living in the desert for 40 years ... not a bone, not a shard of pottery, not a single piece of evidence. etc etc

posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 01:23 PM
Good one, FlyersFan! I've read thru that thread and your views are spot-on with what they're saying there.

Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver

posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 11:11 AM

posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 05:33 AM
Was Moses created? Yes!

Too much explanation required on this though; all of which would be rejected by most as heresy or blasphemy.

posted on May, 16 2014 @ 03:24 PM
Good info over there at

Evidence for Moses and the Exodus?

"...After a century of exhaustive investigation, all respectable archaeologists have given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible ‘historical figures.’... [A]rchaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus has similarly been discarded as a fruitless pursuit. Indeed, the overwhelming archaeological evidence today of largely indigenous origins for early Israel leaves no room for an exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness. A Moses-like figure may have existed somewhere in the southern Transjordan in the mid-late 13th century B.C., where many scholars think the biblical traditions concerning the god Yahweh arose. But archaeology can do nothing to confirm such a figure as a historical personage, much less prove that he was the founder of the later Israelite religion."

- Did Moses Exist?, page 75, quote from Dr. Dever

"The exodus from Egypt is unknown to history save what is written in the Hebrew Bible. Outside of the most meager of circumstantial evidence we possess nothing to substantiate the text."

- Did Moses Exist?, page 75, quote from Dr. Oblath

"No direct evidence [of] the Israelite sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus can be extracted from archaeology."

- Did Moses Exist?, page 75, quote from Dr. Finkelstein

"...the early date of Pentateuchal sources according to the Documentary Hypothesis is entirely lacking in external corroboration, since archaeological evidence, including an analysis of written finds in Judea and at Elephantine, does not support the existence of any written Pentateuchal materials prior to the third century BCE."

- Did Moses Exist?, page 25, quote from Russell Gmirkin

posted on May, 16 2014 @ 07:38 PM
a reply to: GoldenKnight

A Moses-like figure may have existed somewhere in the southern Transjordan in the mid-late 13th century B.C., where many scholars think the biblical traditions concerning the god Yahweh arose.
I think the name,
is irrelevant and is probably just a popular name,
the same way that it is catching on today,
because it is kind of like baby-talk
that makes people feel happy
from the sounds that it makes in your head when you say it.
Or maybe the way your mouth moves when you pronounce it,
like sucking at the breast.
edit on 16-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

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