Jesus presents Himself as God

reply to post by windword


I dont see how I am ignoring anything.

Jesus claims to be the first and the last... just like God the Father in the book of Isaiah. The alpha and the omega.

Jesus is fully God and fully man. This is the Hypostatic Union.

Oh my freaking god again with the religious crap?

You people and your "god".

Explain god to all the people we're going to kill in Syria then get back to me.

reply to post by gotya


You ARE in a religious forum. Deny ignorance.

reply to post by UnaChispa


i know my mistake.

i walked through the wrong door.

reply to post by UnaChispa


The concept of the trinity wasn't introduced through Christianity, but was adopted by Catholics in 380 AD.

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the ancient Sumerian, Assyrian, and Babylonian triads? No. However, Hislop furthers the comparison, ‘In the unity of that one, Only God of the Babylonians there were three persons, and to symbolize [sic] that doctrine of the Trinity, they employed... the equilateral triangle, just as it is well known the Romish Church does at this day’

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the ancient Egyptian triads? No. However, Durant submits that ‘from Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity...’ (Caesar 595). Dr. Gordon Laing, retired Dean of the Humanities Department at the University of Chicago, agrees that ‘the worship of the Egyptian triad Isis, Serapis, and the child Horus’ probably accustomed the early church theologians to the idea of a triune God, and was influential ‘in the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity as set forth in the Nicaean and Athanasian creeds’

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the Etruscan and Roman triads? No. However, Laing convincingly devotes his entire book Survivals of the Roman Gods to the comparison of Roman paganism and the Roman Catholic Church. Dr. Jaroslav Pelikan, a Catholic scholar and professor at Yale, confirms the Church’s respect for pagan ideas when he states that the Apologists and other early church fathers used and cited the [pagan] Roman Sibylline Oracles so much that they were called ‘Sibyllists’ by the 2nd century critic, Celsus. There was even a medieval hymn, ‘Dies irae,’ which foretold the ‘coming of the day of wrath’ based on the ‘dual authority of ‘David and the Sibyl”(Emergence 64-65). The attitude of the Church toward paganism is best summed up in Pope Gregory the Great’s words to a missionary: ‘You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity’

www.heraldmag.org...

The Trinity is attacked by all the cults and false religions.

Always believe the opposite of what propaganda says...

The Trinity is one of the most frequently attacked doctrines by the cults and false religions

Is the Trinity a blatant contradiction and a damnable heresy? The fact is, creation is filled with illustrations of spiritual truths that reveal the many attributes of God, not the least of which is the Trinity. In fact, there are tri-unities all around us! For example:

Einstein’s Theory of Relativity revealed the fact that life as we know it consists of three things, time, space, and matter (which is energy).

I have demonstrated that the Trinity is not illogical, irrational, or contradictory. Did any of you have eggs for breakfast this morning? It consists of the shell, the white and the yoke. Were you eating three eggs? Even a chicken can answer that one! If you are still adamant, that God cannot be a Trinity, I’ll ask you the same question God asked Job in Job chapter 38:

“Who is this who darkens council by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have the understanding.”

How Can One God Be A Trinity?

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity has been consistently misunderstood, probably more than any other teaching of the Bible. The Trinity is a complex doctrine, and there is the aspect of mystery surrounding it.

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cult groups attack. It is also the main doctrine that all the mainline, historic churches agree upon. We may all have our differences, Catholics and varying Protestant groups, but when it comes to the doctrine on God we all agree that the Bible teaches belief in One God revealed in three persons, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless we would not want to believe in the Trinity if the Bible did not teach it, no matter what the beliefs of our various churches were.

It's interesting that the cult groups usually give their members a false definition of the Trinity. For example, the magazine salesmen knocking on your door with their propaganda from Brooklyn, New York, say that the church teaches that there are three gods in one. This is completely false.

IS THE TRINITY TRUE?

The one thing that all cults and non-Christian religions have in common is, they all deny the deity of Christ. In John 8:24 Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I am (the name God said was His in Exodus 3:15) you will die in your sin.”

People reading this today (2,000 years later) might not understand this, but the people Jesus said it to understood Him perfectly! They wanted to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:30-33). In most cases the confusion is based on miss-understanding the Trinity.

The cults say the Trinity is a damnable heresy. For a mortal who has never seen God, to say that the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal God cannot be God in heaven, come to earth as a man, and be everywhere at the same time by His Spirit (a statement beyond his pay-grade) is a greater mystery than the Trinity itself.

There is not a man on earth who can tell you how a brown cow can eat green grass and turn it into white milk! Answering the Cults

The anti-Trinity heresy is one of the most dangerous teachings today which is why it was officially condemned by the church in the fourth century.

The Trinity is attacked mainly by cults so that they can also deny the deity of Jesus.

One of the biggest clues is to look at which groups reject the Trinity and which do not:

Faith Groups that Reject the Trinity

• Muslims
• Mormons
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Christian Science
• Scientology
• Arians
• Armstrongism
• Christadelphians
• The Way International
• Unification Church

"Another characteristic of all non‑Christian cults is either an inadequate view or outright denial of the Holy Trinity. The biblical doctrine of the Trinity, one God in three Persons, is usually attacked as being pagan or satanic in origin.

The Characteristics of Cults

Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammar reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8

B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26

"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22

"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech." Genesis 11:7

"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

Trinity Proof Texts

Cults HATE The Trinity
The Characteristics of Cults

reply to post by windword


Not true at all. It was always accepted by the church since the day of pentecost.

It is not 1+1+1=3.

It is 1×1×1=1.

Take the universe for example. It is made up of three things: time, space and matter.
Time has a past, present and future. Even though there are three, time is still one.
Space is height, width and depth. Even though there are three, space is still one.
Matter is made up of solid, liquid and gas. Even though there are three, matter is still one.

These are the fingerprints of a Triune God.

Our Lord answers the Samaritan woman's question...

John 4:10
Jesus answered, and said to her: If thou didst know the gift of God, and who he is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou perhaps wouldst have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

www.drbo.org...

one in the "WORD", not physically ONE entity, Jesus spoke the "WORD" of GOD, so it's not hard to understand why Jesus spoke of himself as a 3rd person.

So let's get this straight, many Christians think GOD sent a third of himself to suckle on a women's breast then climb out of a vagina, then allow the corrupt jews/romans to commit a major sin and kill this third of himself, and through this sin of the corrupt jews/romans you have been saved. Just wow, sounds like the devil has you right where he wants you, mainly for the two reasons below.

1/firstly by making you commit the worst sin of all; Idolatry
2/false hope in saviour by crucifiction rather than good deeds for the right intention

Come on Christians you were hoodwinked long ago, just pray to the ONE Jesus prayed to, Jesus didn't pray to himself or a 3rd of himself, so with all due respect get a grip

John 14:13-15

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The Father is glorified in the Son. In verse 15, Jesus didn't say, "if ye love me, keep my Father's commandments."

reply to post by windword

Jesus makes it clear that he a "man" sent from God, who is speaking what God told him. He also makes it clear that there are others that are of God, because they can "hear" his words.

Jesus didn't make it clear that he was a "man" when he said this...

John 8:23-24

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

What do you think it means when Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am he" right after claiming to be from above and not from this world?

Originally posted by colbe
Watching and listening to Father Robert Barron's Word of Fire Youtubes, gave me the desire to start this thread and...

I worry, there are so many disbelievers at ATS.

This fact bothered men of Our Lord's time so much, they killed Him. Give example if you like of Our Lord stating the fact He is God. Any quote showing He is speaking of Himself in a divine way.


John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

[30] I and the Father are one: That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

www.drbo.org...

Listening to Father Barron, he stated Judaism would recognize something in the New Testament, blood and water. The animal sacrificed blood and water that flowed from the temple. Our Lord, the new temple, blood and water flowed from His side.

Thought I would share...new to me concerning the old temple.

Exodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" - John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.

Almost all Christians believe that Jesus is God incarnate.
Scripture backs this up. Scripture scholars for thousands of years back this up.
Jesus is Mercy Incarnate.

Now here's a twist .... Christian belief that Jesus is God actually follows BUDDHIST teaching.
Many Christians call Jesus - God's Mercy Incarnate.
Many Catholic theologians through the last two thousand years say Hes 'God's Mercy Incarnate'.
Jesus is the Mercy aspect of God.
I may not say this correctly .. (Buddhists can correct it) ... but Buddhism says that people can
reincarnate ... be manifestations .. of aspects. These people must be buddahs or bodhisattvas.
If I understand it correctly .... Jesus would be the incarnation or manifestation of Mercy Itself
according to Buddhism.

Like I said .. interesting twist to the story ...

reply to post by Haxsaw

one in the "WORD", not physically ONE entity, Jesus spoke the "WORD" of GOD, so it's not hard to understand why Jesus spoke of himself as a 3rd person.

Jesus was there in the beginning with God. In heaven, God and Jesus are both the temple and the light.

John 1:1 & 14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Revelation 21:22-23

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

reply to post by Unachispa

So, if Jesus claimed to be Son of Man, that would make him a man. And if he claimed to be Son of God, that would make him....? God.

This way of addressing himself as 'the son of man' comes from the book of Daniel, where it was not meant to mean an ordinary man, but some sort of heavenly entity who appeared as a man appears.
So jesus was not telling people that he was just an ordinary person, but that he was someone come down from heaven in the form of a man, one who will shortly loose that appearance to be replaced by appearing in a way as very similar to the appearance of God Himself.

Jesus understood exactly what he was claiming; so did the Jews, that's why they tried to stone him, because he was claiming to be God.

Another way to understand it might be that Jesus saw the Jews as basically making Abraham to be their God, and that they proved that Jesus was right in thinking that when they tried to kill him after saying that he was better than Abraham.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Another way to understand it might be that Jesus saw the Jews as basically making Abraham to be their God, and that they proved that Jesus was right in thinking that when they tried to kill him after saying that he was better than Abraham.

But that's not what they said. Here's what they said...

John 10:33

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

reply to post by Deetermined

. . . thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

After Jesus stated his priority over their virtual god, Abraham.
This "Abraham" thing is a recurring theme in the gospel of John.
The Jews would say, "But we have Abraham!".
And Jesus would be all, "And . . so?".

The Jews believed in salvation through right heredity.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Almost all Christians believe that Jesus is God incarnate.

It does not mean the person, God, becomes a human being.
It means a heavenly person who is in the form, "god", generically, who happens to be on very close terms with the Supreme Being, God. This "son of God" becomes a man, while God is still up in heaven going about His "god" duties.