big bang?really

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by Vortiki

 

Only an omnipotent being would be able to limit or increase its power at will. Furthermore your paradox would only exist within this finite realm where laws have been arranged to create a harmonious structure.

A computer programmer could make a game so difficult he could not beat it but then only he has access to the cheat code/god mode options that would allow him to not be constrained by the rules of the environment he created.

If an omnipotent being can limit, has a limit, in anyway is limited, in its capabilities then it is NOT omnipotent. It is impossible for any thing in this reality to have such a power.

If the being can create a rock heavier than it can lift, it has limited power. If the being can make itself stronger to lift the rock, then it was never a rock it COULDN'T lift, which would imply the being can never create a rock heavier than it can lift, which is also limited capability.

No matter what way you cut it, this paradox prevents God.

Originally posted by coldkidc
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

IN what religion was God created?

You got it all backwards - it's pretty much universal across religion to infer that the God they worship (whichever one it might be) is infinite along with the all knowing & powerful part

Religion doesn't believe something came from nothing...it believes the something was always there.

edit on 4-9-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)

A patently untrue statement. The Norse, Greek, Roman and Hindu pantheons, off the
Top of my head, all believed in other, older gods who were there prior to or created
Their gods.

reply to post by taoistguy

No, an empty bowl – in the context, which is quite clear – is a bowl empty of food. Give language its due, and do not try to complicate matters by introducing irrelevancies.

Put the bowl in outer space. Now there's no air inside it. There is nothing material inside it. Just empty space. So it's empty. But empty space is still something – because it has physical properties attributable to it. That was my point. Quibbles about whether a bowl filled with air is empty or full are irrelevant.

The contradiction I speak of should be obvious to any Taoist.

reply to post by peter vlar


That would be why I said pretty much...

I understand it's not all religions - just most of them...especially the monotheistic ones.

Why are we discussing God and religion in this thread?

I'd rather discuss the scientific and philosophical side of cosmology, such as whether the Big Bang really created all space and time there is, or it was itself and event in space and time.

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by Astyanax


I was talking about the total concept of Nothingness which the empty bowl, whether on earth or floating in space does not signify.

reply to post by wildespace


I thought we'd already agreed that science is wrong to explain the big bang in those terms cos it doesn't make sense and is not logical? Therefore we have to think in terms more fluid.
THat is why some people are talking about god.

Originally posted by sparky31
don,t think its just this program,everything i,ve saw about the begining of universe then happened from big bang but still nothing there before everything came to be which to me makes no sense

Im with you on this one.. How does all this start from nothing at all? If the big bang started everything what was before the big bang? I have asked this on ats before and got the same as you..the run around...and it still makes no sense..I honestly think most just dont want to admit not knowing.

Originally posted by taoistguy
reply to post by wildespace

 

I thought we'd already agreed that science is wrong to explain the big bang in those terms cos it doesn't make sense and is not logical? Therefore we have to think in terms more fluid.
THat is why some people are talking about god.

A creator does make more sense than 'bang' we're here.. Us being in a simulation makes better sense than a big bang...

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by wildespace


I understand what you are saying but if it was caused by a natural process; what would that be? And how did that come about? What was the start of that process? And what started whatever started the process?

Originally posted by DarkAngel8

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by wildespace

 

I understand what you are saying but if it was caused by a natural process; what would that be? And how did that come about? What was the start of that process? And what started whatever started the process?

Yes, those are very good questions, and something that science can theorise and hypothesise about. Much better than saying "God did it". What is the scientific explanation for God?

What would the natural processes be, you ask? Familiarise yourself with Relativity and Quantum physics, especially with the nature of vacuum, zero-point energy, eternal inflation, and the Uncertainty Principle. All the material is freely available on the Internet, you can start with Wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by coldkidc
reply to post by peter vlar

 

That would be why I said pretty much...

I understand it's not all religions - just most of them...especially the monotheistic ones.

edit on 7-9-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)

Nice goal post moving there. It's either universal or its not. When you're using extremes or absolutes there is no middle ground so 'pretty much' just doesn't work. That and it just isn't true that "most of them" ascribe to such. Yes the majority of monotheistic faiths believe that but that's not the same as most religions the world over believe that. And once you take abrahamic religions out of the mix you drop to a very small number of faiths that think the way you describe.

Originally posted by DarkAngel8

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by wildespace

 

I understand what you are saying but if it was caused by a natural process; what would that be? And how did that come about? What was the start of that process? And what started whatever started the process?

your asking what started the process which we don,t know but i bet your willing to accept that god did with no evidence of that atall,seriously how can someone believe for thousands of years a god exists when he hasn,t showed himself since.

Originally posted by sparky31

Originally posted by DarkAngel8

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by wildespace

 

I understand what you are saying but if it was caused by a natural process; what would that be? And how did that come about? What was the start of that process? And what started whatever started the process?

your asking what started the process which we don,t know but i bet your willing to accept that god did with no evidence of that atall,seriously how can someone believe for thousands of years a god exists when he hasn,t showed himself since.

But I dont.. I dont believe in a creator.. Im with you there..There is no evidence for a creator but we still dont know everything about the big bang either.. That theory is incomplete also..

Originally posted by wildespace

Originally posted by DarkAngel8

How can an event occur with no cause, and no time or space to occurr in? If the Big Bang created time and space, why and how did it do that? Wouldn't it make more sense to consider that the Big Bang itself was the result of something (a natural process, not creation by a deity).

reply to post by wildespace

 

I understand what you are saying but if it was caused by a natural process; what would that be? And how did that come about? What was the start of that process? And what started whatever started the process?

Yes, those are very good questions, and something that science can theorise and hypothesise about. Much better than saying "God did it". What is the scientific explanation for God?

What would the natural processes be, you ask? Familiarise yourself with Relativity and Quantum physics, especially with the nature of vacuum, zero-point energy, eternal inflation, and the Uncertainty Principle. All the material is freely available on the Internet, you can start with Wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org...

Its just confusing.. I personally dont believe a god created us.. We are not the top dog.. We are one of many beings in our universe. Maybe one universe out of many more..? but the big bang doesnt make sense.. Probably because im not familiar with what you mentioned..thanks for the link..