big bang?really

Originally posted by sparky31
this big bang theory over time like everything else i believe will be disproved.

That's possible just like god was dismissed.

Big bang is the theory that all matter was compressed into a small singularity that then exploded kind of like how black holes swallow everything up an compresses it or how stars are compressed and sometimes explode I believe that is how elements such as gold are created.

It is better than the idea that god was just created from thin air then made everything else from a snap of his fingers.

If you have a hard time believing that something came from nothing then religion isn't for you it's not for me either.

reply to post by Astyanax


Infinity is the only answer...something has always been here...
Otherwise there would have to be a point where there was nothing that became something...so...if you refuse to accept that something can come from nothing then you must accept infinity.

That God is an infinite being solves the problem quite nicely.

reply to post by Grimpachi


IN what religion was God created?

You got it all backwards - it's pretty much universal across religion to infer that the God they worship (whichever one it might be) is infinite along with the all knowing & powerful part

Religion doesn't believe something came from nothing...it believes the something was always there.

reply to post by sparky31


Maybe this new show will tell it better (than the one you watched) Mark your calendar. I'm gonna watch it!

Cosmos: A Space-Time Odyssey, and it premiers in Spring 2014*. A trailer has been released, and it’s beautiful:

Link about show with preview video!!>>>> www.slate.com...

Astronomy is always changing.

reply to post by Astyanax


For the 1st question:
For the purposes of this discussion:
The idea of God (whatever being you believe in) = something
And Nothing = nothing...
It's that simple - there can not be anything between something & nothing...there either IS or there IS NOT

The 2nd question:
Infinite is a concept that we can have no way of understanding...

As I explained above - if you refuse to believe that something came from nothing then you MUST believe in something existing infinitely.

Basically, if you don't believe in infinity then you inherently believe that there was a beginning which logically means there must have been nothing before that beginning - so...something came from nothing (so to not believe in infinity = belief in something from nothing...hopefully I'm getting my point across clearly...)

So - you either believe that something came from nothing - or - you believe in infinity

I know of nothing that is infinite except God...that is because this existence as we experience it is NOT infinite...
It cannot be...there was a beginning & there will be an end to this physical world...the answer is in the question - how did it begin? (We...are not God...God is the only thing that is infinite...we are not...& neither is our universe as we perceive it)

The 2 answers are - it came from nothing or it came from something (which must have always been or we'd be back to the it came from nothing answer)


IN RESPONSE TO THE ASTYANAX'S REPLY BELOW: WHEN DID I EVER SAY I DIDN'T BELIEVE THE BIG BANG THEORY? I DO HAPPEN TO THINK IT'S A VALID EVENT...THAT DOESN'T ELIMINATE A CREATOR

reply to post by coldkidc

Something has always been here... Otherwise there would have to be a point where there was nothing that became something...so...if you refuse to accept that something can come from nothing then you must accept infinity.

So you don't believe in the Big Bang because you believe in God. And you believe in God because you don't believe in the Big Bang.

Pure genius! :shk:

Originally posted by coldkidc
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

IN what religion was God created?

You got it all backwards - it's pretty much universal across religion to infer that the God they worship (whichever one it might be) is infinite along with the all knowing & powerful part

Religion doesn't believe something came from nothing...it believes the something was always there.

edit on 4-9-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)

Then the only difference between believing in god and the universe infinitely collapsing and expanding is one thinks a invisible man did it which is one step more than is needed. One we can observe which does not require faith.

reply to post by Astyanax


You are obviously not understanding me

I have no proof that something has always existed
Just like you have no proof that something came from nothing

So what do you base your belief on...faith?

2nd - yes, I choose to refuse to believe that something came from nothing because it's the only thing that can at least be argued to be true since we have never been able to create something from nothing...
Put nothing in a jar & leave it there for a million years...what do you think is going to be in that jar after all that time...that's right...nothing.

I did not say that I do not believe in the big bang - as Phage said the "Big Bang Theory" in it's current iteration does not infer that "something came from nothing" if you think that's what it means then you don't understand the theory - it does not directly address the paradox of how did nothing become something.

As confusing as it might be to you - I can both believe in the Big Bang & God simultaneously...
What exactly would creation look like...perhaps a sudden explosion & a scattering of the universe?

reply to post by coldkidc

Just like you have no proof that something came from nothing

Who says something came from nothing?
Not the big bang theory.

reply to post by Phage


I'm not arguing with you - he doesn't understand what he's trying to say

I agree...the big bang theory doesn't suggest that something came from nothing & I have no problem with it as the explanation for the beginning of our current version of physical existence

What he doesn't understand is that concept doesn't eliminate the fact that there was either something or nothing at the beginning...I feel like I'm going in circles

I believe in a creator...but I don't see why that restricts me from belief in the big bang theory as well...
I have never understood fundamental Christianity's anger at the Big Bang theory...it does not eliminate the influence of a creator

reply to post by coldkidc

.I feel like I'm going in circles

I think that if you look at what Astaynax wrote you will find the reason for that.

reply to post by coldkidc

I have no proof that something has always existed

Indeed. On the contrary, the world is filled with evidence that all things must pass. Despite this you choose to believe that something can exist for ever. Is this rational?

You have no proof that something came from nothing. So what do you base your belief on...faith?

I do not believe that anything came from nothing. A proper understanding of time and physics easily solves that problem.

As confusing as it might be to you - I can both believe in the Big Bang & God simultaneously...

So can a great many people, including the man who first postulated it. This is not at all confusing to me. My problem is not with belief in God but with your reasoning, which is circular and self-defeating. Believe in God by all means, but do so for better reasons.

reply to post by Phage


Which part exactly?

reply to post by Astyanax

Indeed. On the contrary, the world is filled with evidence that all things must pass. Despite this you choose to believe that something can exist for ever. Is this rational?

This existence is not infinite...it does pass...we are not the "something" that has always existed
Nothing or something - what was at the very beginning? What do you believe?

I do not believe that anything came from nothing. A proper understanding of time and physics easily solves that problem.

Please elaborate...

My problem is not with belief in God but with your reasoning, which is circular and self-defeating.

How is my logic circular? I have stated that there either was a point that something came from nothing or there has always been something there...what other options are there?

Why cant the entire cosmos just keep recycling itself?

One giant never ending explosion, gravity fueled explosion machine.

When did it start? When the last universe collapsed and suddenly expanded.

Density and gravity constantly working together.

Just sayin, why not?

I personally believe that for some odd reason people underrate gravity, mass, velocity and the old equal but opposite forces saying.

Everyone wants to take the easy way out and try not to think about it, "yeah that sounds good".

reply to post by coldkidc

My previous post answers your last question to Phage.

We are not the "something" that has always existed

Evidently. Neither is anything else we can perceive. Hence my question to you.

What do you believe?

Regarding the origins of the universe? I believe – or rather, accept – the current, established canons of physics and cosmology. They tell me that the universe is finite in both space and time. They add that both space and time – which are, in fact, one thing, which we call spacetime – only exist within the universe. There is no 'before the Big Bang' because there was no time before the Big Bang. In this sense, the universe has 'always' existed – but 'always' has a finite value, somewhere between 13.7 and 13.9 billion years.

In just the same way, it makes no sense to talk of something as being 'outside' the universe. People who ask 'what is the universe expanding into?' obviously imagine an infinite empty space inside which the universe is swelling like a balloon. This is wrong. The universe does not have an outside.

There are lots of hypotheses floating about nowadays concerning multiple universes, colliding branes giving rise to universes, and so on. Some of them are quite respectable – Stephen Hawking, for example, believes a 'multiverse' is possible. Yet, properly understood, none of these hypotheses contradict what I have written above.

reply to post by Astyanax


From what I gather - you believe that time did not exist before the Big Bang - I can agree with you on this
- it is completely possible that time did not exist before the Big Bang

You believe that 13.7-13.9 billion years ago the current universe came into existence & I'm ok with that as well

So, my questions to you are:

What was there before the big bang?
Where did it come from?
How did it get there?

ETA:
Also, I understand what you are trying to say about there not being an outside of the universe but there must be an "outside of the universe" because if the universe is not infinite then there is an outside - even if nothing is there

Multiverse is possible...hell, I guess there's not really any evidence to disprove the hologram concept as possible either - but if that's the truth then that would mean there is definitely a creator...

Originally posted by Phage
The big bang theory does not postulate that everything came from nothing.
If that program says that it is mistaken.

I'm thinking the Universe as we see it, emulates from a white hole at the centre of the Universe, "string theory" being the wave fronts of the resultant wavelengths,created from the matter/vibes crossing each other as interference waves, from the already spewed out matter/vibes. If its being spewed out of the "White hole" we wouldn't be able to see it as it would have the same properties of a Super black hole, but in reverse. When the super Black hole pops out of existence , the Super white hole disappears as well, and we are left with the feeling of W.T>F>Happened There.!! If the draining of matter from one Universe to another didn't happen, it would get very chaotic.
So the Black hole Universe exists in the same space as the White hole Universe but, at different times. We will eventually disappear into a Black hole, and then be pushed out of a White hole in another of the many Universes that these things form. The inflation of matter/vibes dose not matter, because in the Universe they pour into. What arrives, and with what energy, it irrelevant as its the only game in town. So because the vibrational frequency of each Universe is different, they can all exist in the same space. If they were the same they couldn't exist anyway. The wave fronts would cancel each other out. Thus the sum total of the Universes is a total equation for the conservation of energy, as the size of each universe is determined by the Matter /Vibes that the original Black hole pulls in.

reply to post by anonentity

If that were the case there would be an observable source.
That is not what observations show. What observations show is a pervasive field of electromagnetic radiation which is essentially the same in every direction. The conclusion reached by this observation is that the "source" of the initial expansion is at the outer, rather than inner, limits of the Universe.

reply to post by coldkidc

What was there before the big bang?

If there was no time, there was no 'before'. Do you understand now?