Will you open your Mind and your Heart?

Any intelligent thinking person who has all the facts in front of them can not deny everything was created and designed by God.
Problem is most people are brain washed since grade school into millions of years and the Evolution myth, they are also not told all the facts that go against Evolution, all the hidden findings you will not see in most museums or taught in most colleges.

The most simple example of this are things like clams that are suppose to be millions of years old, have fresh tissue inside, the same thing has been found with dinosaur bones. Both are buried, denied, ignored because they don't fit the "Evolutionary" world view. The secular world will embrace an idea no matter how absurd so long as it opposes God.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
Dear! Where do I start? Having a disbelief in a deity doesn't make anyone evil or that they're closed minded. It's just we have all come from different backgrounds and we reach the same conclusion that we're happy identifying as non believers. I'm not a spiritual person at all. I enjoy studying religion and its affect on people. But I'm happy being an atheist. I would be lying to you if I told you I believed in the concept of God.

Ok, so you don't believe in God or a spirit so how should I a believer interpret 'you'? Because that is so difficult once you spoke there must be a body somewhere on the globe and something which makes it type and post here, how do you classify that so that I can respect your disbelief or non-belief, which is difficult to grasp for me since it refers to 'nothing' and if there was nothing so how can I respect something which doesn't exist? And how do you believe or explain the body is animated, how can that body walk about without a spirit.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by slowisfast

 

Forgive me for being a butt-munch. I was just trying to be skeptical and I respect your beliefs. I'll have to take another look and read in detail your source you posted earlier.

You don't fool me and convince me you are respecting other peoples' beliefs just because you say so but at the same time call yourself an atheist. Don't call yourself anything that has to do with religion or beliefs and then you might be somewhat more convincing. Why would you want to lie about it, why are you drawn to faith when you obviously dislike it? I can only imagine you would want to convert people to atheism, by pretending and trying to fool people into liking you. I am serious, I would want to know sincerely why the contradiction exists. I mean I can understand the argument of socializing despite disagreeing about faith. But don't pretend you have any weight in the matter, or try to make the faithful look weightless and science as having some weight (as in importance).

reply to post by shell69


Hm, I find your post rather presumptious and a tag arrogant,

We are ALL born "Atheists" ie we have no belief any any of the pantheon of gods, then some of our parents label us as members of one god club or another and so the indoctrination begins.

It would appear that over time the more gullable ignorant or totally brainwashed an individual is the more they cling to their superstitions. However, also along the way many "believers" go through a period of the "Facts" they were indoctrinited with, morphin into "Faith" as their logical minds begin to observe the stupifying absurdities presented by the "Facts" which they had been indoctrinated with since childhood.

On a personal level I for one was not indoctrinated with religious nonsense by my parents allthough it would be fair to say that many xtians in positions of influence over children often abused their positions and did (and are still doing) their level best to brainwash me and my ilk.

To my mind your arrogance begins with the question

Will you open your Mind and your Heart?

You are asking rational logical people to consider posibilities but do so with an appeal to their emotions hm reason doesn't work that way my friend , you either have evidence or you don't. Most non believers have given reasoned consideration to relgious claims and have rejected them so aking us to rub a lucky rabbits foot and look again is kind of insulting.

The starting point of the Judeo Xtian religions is the bibles that's all a none believer needs to evaluate that particular belief system and it has failed miserably to reasonably supWhen it comes to support the mostly preposterous claims made.

It would be very interesting to see the likes of xtians read "The God Delusion" or "Misquoting Jesus" with an open mind but there again a christian is the least likely person to read an entire bible to begin with so not much hope there.

Originally posted by shell69
What I do not understand about some of us, who refuse to believe in God, or ANY creator or higher power in this or any other world.....is WHY???

Hi - Just felt I had to answer this from my personal opinion.

When it comes dow to a God v. Evolution debate where you are told "You have to pick a side..." I look at it with the same disbelief as you, except I ask: Why would any intelligent person pick God?

Taking it back to basics, I accept that Evolution does not answer everything, and I accept that it is our "best guess" but it is based on the fossil records, DNA, geology etc. Yes - it may need tweaking as we improve our knowledge, yes - it may not answer everything, but it is a choice of accepting what we can understand based on what we know or (and I apologise for my flippancy) believing in some guy with "magical powers" clicking his fingers and pulling elephants out of his hat, watching everything we do and saying "If your life is hard, I'll make it better after you are dead. Oh - and byt the way, all those fossils and stuff were put there by an angel who I threw out of heaven for being a bit naughty cos he wants you to question my existence."

Now take away everything you believe and accept and say to yourself - If I were given these two options which would I chose as the most likely?

Now, I understand your thread is not about atheism: I am jsut answering your question "Why?" And I would like to end with a quote I saw last week which flagged this up perfectly.

A Christian asked somebody why they did not believe in God and accept jesus as a saviour, and the Atheist repled "For the same reason you don't believe in Zeus." I only wish I had thought of a response like that!

Originally posted by shell69
reply to post by Jahari

 

My thread is not about atheism, it's simply about the negative energy that seems to be generated on this website

So do you have "PROOF" of this negative energy ? Have you measured it, how does it jump from people like me into the keyboard and down the telephone line to ATS, can I run my car with it ?

If I can run my car with this negative energy it may be a good idea to grab a large container and run into Westborough Baptist Church and shout "DINOSAUR", should imagine I could run my own Learjet on that.

reply to post by MamaJ


It wouldn't be my proof. It would be proof that anyone can see and confirm under thier own observations and conditions.

For me it would have to be something that would leave me with no doubt and then I could turn to a random person who is sitting next to me and say "Did you see that?" and they would be able to verify my opwn observation with theirs. Then I would be able to call a friend living on the other side of the globe who could also verify the evidence.

The evidence will need to be universal and undeniable for me to believe that there is a supreme being. He/She would have to proven to me that they are who they say they are. I don't go up to random people and tell them I am Spiderman and then expecting them to believe me. It doesn't work that way.

But let's say something like that happened, Let's say that I was transported away to another place where I had a conversation with this being and they told me that they created the universe and let us assume that there was a way that I could independantly verify it so that I was sure that it was not a hallucination or happening only inside my own head.
If they appeared in the sky and announce to all that they are the supreme being who created everything, I would be convinced that they exist, sure, but that claim then also needs to be proven. They have just proven they exists and are really powerful... but that doesn't automatically mean they are God or that they created the universe. Those claims bear just as much burden of proof.

I imagine a godly figure materializing in front of me and all others and stating that he/she is god... Even in that case... All I can think about is Kirk's line from Star Trek 5...

What does God need with a spaceship?

reply to post by shell69

You see friend? This is the way of the world. There will always be non-believers. And that is as it should be. And negativity? That perception is just on you. Not them. Tthey choose to not-believe until proven wrong.

When they see thousands killed in a high office building, and hundreds and hundreds of people gassed in their own country, and a gunman who shoots up a movie theatre, while too, another kills many innocent children in their school...cant you see why some dont believe? They wont believe in a loving God who lets this happen.

So it is not a real negative in the sense that they have just not seen the light: perhaps for some, they never will. This should give you and I and the rest of the believers that everyone comes to God in their own way...or not. And thats ok, you know?

Without any badness and negativity in the world, we would never really know to appreciate the good that is in it as well.
There is a deeper meaning to us who do believe. And that strengthens our own faith and conviction in God. And that is a good thing.

We cant change the world, nor all the people in it. But we dont have to either. Faith is the key. Hopefully, sometime in the world, it will be for everyone. But for now, its for us..and for us...that is enough.

Peace, Love and Light...always MS

This world makes it difficult for any one to believe in a creator.When our generations only know man made items, where is the room for God?! There was a point in time where the mass majority relied in our creator, a much simpler time, but this world makes us distant! Some examples of distancing would be in the music, in forms of media, OTHER PEOPLE, and in man made creations themselves. People will throw religion in your face, and the best thing to do is not to listen. Most people do not believe in God because either some one has pushed religion in their face, has given a false presentation of who God really is, or anything regarding a persons bias, or opinion. Don't base your relationship with God off of what you have heard, experience it for yourself. Humans are fallible, so for any one person to turn you off from having a relationship with God, it is pointless. Religion was made to divide and cause animosity. Personally I believe in a creator, and believe that every one was created for a greater cosmic purpose. The universal alignment is far too great to have happened accidentally, or to have started from nothing. As for the unanswered prayers that many speak about, the human mind can not fathom what it is that God has in store for us, other wise there wouldn't be a need for a God. Each person has lessons to be learned in their given life time, something that fuels passion and sparks something within. God sees our true character based off of how we react to obstacles that are thrown our way (cancer, deaths, mistreatment, and the list goes on). Sorry for rambling, but any relationship takes effort, even one with God. It isn't just about going to Him for a quick fix, whenever you are in distress. It happens often and we resent God afterwards! One scenario:
Some one who doesn't believe in God goes through a tough time (loved one being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and has a high mortality rate). For a moment, you believe in God and pray for miracles, because, well others do it, so you might as well try it... you believe whole heartily but yet that important person passes on. That causes you to be angry with God, to doubt his existence! Angrily you exclaim "You can #ing make miracles, so why didn't you save Him/Her!."
Your mind set automatically shifts. The moment you hear the name "God" you already have a false image portrayed!
Something of absence, someone who was not there when you needed Him most, so automatically it means He does not exist!

So many people live their lives thinking that way, but in all honesty when times get hardest, that's when one should believe the most.

reply to post by UnknownUsr

Originally posted by UnknownUsr
Most people do not believe in God because either some one has pushed religion in their face, has given a false presentation of who God really is, or anything regarding a persons bias, or opinion.

Don't base your relationship with God off of what you have heard, experience it for yourself.

Religion was made to divide and cause animosity.

EXCELLENT first post...

Looking forward to more of your posts here.

Welcome to ATS btw...

reply to post by Murgatroid


Thank you! That's definitely encouraging to hear! I've been on ATS for a while now, but finally grew the "nads" to start posting. Lol
looking forward to reading your posts as well!
Best
-UnkwnUsr

Originally posted by AgFox
But let's say something like that happened, Let's say that I was transported away to another place where I had a conversation with this being and they told me that they created the universe and let us assume that there was a way that I could independantly verify it so that I was sure that it was not a hallucination or happening only inside my own head.

How about someone made a place in the afterlife long ago and invited others and the place became bigger and bigger as more souls passed on. Those who do not choose to go there end up in their own place without anything because in life they didn't do anything about their transition, the faithless who enjoyed life thoroughly but didn't prepare or make arrangements for an afterlife.

Imagine if you died of old age and you find yourself in this place and someone offers you a choice to stay in this persons afterlife or move on to your own, where you would fall into an eternal sleep because there's nothing there since you didn't construct your own place in the immaterial while you were living you had the chance but wasted time on short term gains. So the claim wouldn't be the Creator of The universe, referring to the material universe, but rather one's own version of it, so the Creator of the soul or inventor of the concept which made it possible for others to continue existing either in heaven or hell, where even hell is a place meant to correct those so they can move on to heaven.

What would you think of such a claim? To add I'm not trying to convert or anything it was something told to me and I'm curious about other people's responses.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

I appreciate what you've said, so much, really I do!
I am more of the mindset that all of the negative things and horrible happenings you mentioned are not so much something God allowed as much as Him giving us all free will.

There are people out there in this great big world who are controlled by something evil, and sinister and mostly unexplainable, to me anyway... and I feel like I could never blame God for what one individual decides to do once they are given over to that force, and that is how I rationalize those particular sort of instances.. right or wrong, that is what I believe.

reply to post by ChristianJihad


Westboro???? Jeez.. I think they are serving a purpose that only makes for a greater hatred of Christians. Westboro Baptist Church, in my opinion is a disgusting display of EVIL and HATE and INTOLERANCE and it bothers me so much to hear that they are even remotely associated with any type of Christianity or church. If all churches and believers were directly associated with that group of people, no wonder the world despises Christians and God.

To me personally that is a group of people being directly led by Satan in order to disparage the name of God and all organized religions... I really am bothered when that group is mentioned in a conversation about opening your mind and you heart.. because obviously that is the very LAST thing on their agenda.

reply to post by UKLionheart


And that makes perfect sense to me, especially when you present it so well. However, I believe that a believer is a believer because of a personal relationship or experience with God.. I do not believe in anything else because I've not had a personal relationship or experience with anything else.

I have experienced things that have caused me to have the greatest faith and to believe without any doubt. I do not accept religion or follow any man's teachings and I do not think that anyone else should blindly follow or follow man's teachings without searching out the truth for themselves and also have a personal relationship with God, and believe due to their own experiences, if that makes any sense.. from my study of the bible I do not believe God wants that either. I respect everyone's beliefs, doubts, and decisions and love people based solely on the fact that they are imperfect human beings just trying to make it through this world, like me

reply to post by ChristianJihad


Listen, you seem much more arrogant than myself, in my honest opinion.
You use 20 words when 5 will do.. You presume, when you have no idea who I am or where I come from.

I was raised by an Atheist father, and a mother who was not a practicing Christian, and given absolutely no direction whatsoever, or led in any way.

God spoke directly to me, and I've witnessed miracles in my lifetime, just a few, but enough to make me believe.
I do not need to personally watch the red sea part, or Manna fall from the sky, because I'm not so arrogant to test God in any way. The miracles I've seen are very small and probably would be considered insignificant to most, but they were enough to make me believe.
It's not my intention to prove any point with this thread, I just simply ask a question, why not open your mind's and heart's???

that's all??? Why does that stir so much anger and aggression up in some folks????

reply to post by MamaJ


I agree with you in many ways... when I first started searching out the truth... I took the word of God very literally.. and what it said to me was to study and find the truth for myself. Not to allow any man to teach me, so I read the word, and translated it into the Greek and Hebrew, just to make sure that I was understanding what was being written.
I also made sure to ask the Holy Spirit to help me each and every time I read the word to understand what God was truly saying in His word. I think I did alright
Because of my personal journey however, I agree with you that each of us has a path and the way to reach our destiny.. I also do not like Denominations.. to me they DIVIDE.. I do not think that is what Christ wanted when he was here on this earth. I think He came to bring us all together, and wanted there to be ONE CHURCH... too bad that is not the way it is today.
I don't think Christ will kick us all to the curb however, just because we have so many different denominations and takes on the whole ideal of "Christianity"... I believe He will come back and scoop up the entire "Church" or believers and love us just the same ... I hope

What I do not understand about some of us, who refuse to believe in God, or ANY creator or higher power in this or any other world.....is WHY???

Compare the actions of those who believe in a God with those who do not. The bad behavior and/or stupidity of a great deal of 'god believers' can be a major turn off to people. If I were on the outside looking in at god believers ... and I saw idiots running around the planet threatening to cut off peoples heads who didn't agree with my beliefs ... or I saw people running around saying that God was going to punish very good people with eternal hell simply because they didn't believe in Him ... I'd run away from believing in God as fast as I could.

BELIEVERS turn people off to God. IMHO

Originally posted by shell69
reply to post by mysterioustranger

 

I appreciate what you've said, so much, really I do!
I am more of the mindset that all of the negative things and horrible happenings you mentioned are not so much something God allowed as much as Him giving us all free will.

There are people out there in this great big world who are controlled by something evil, and sinister and mostly unexplainable, to me anyway... and I feel like I could never blame God for what one individual decides to do once they are given over to that force, and that is how I rationalize those particular sort of instances.. right or wrong, that is what I believe.

The whole point is conflicting. Just to cite the Holy Books, God often sent out his followers/armies/nations etc...and told them to kill every living thing in sight: man. woman, child and animal....even the believers who were only guilty of being in the wrong place at the right time. It was God who gave the order. The reasoning behind hit confuses many how a God can let that happen....and yet, it was ordered so many times in Christianity, and Hebrew history.

About never blaming God, I think you have to credit him for the evil allowed to exist in the world. All things come thru God (if you are a believer). Sometimes I see it as if there was no bad in the world....we wouldnt know how be to or strive to be good.

I have watched small children in a Level 1 Trauma Burn Unit die, wondering what they did to deserve that? Sometime, somewhere, you just have to start living your own life. If you believe in God, you just have to be the best you can be and help someone else every day.

In using your own words...II think the heart resides in the mind. So use the mind to open the heart....I think it takes both to understand...PEACE

reply to post by shell69


The truly open mind is also open to the skeptical or atheistic position..