Is Our Leadership About To Commit Treason?

They've already provided them weapons, aid, protections, etc. Why not just fight with them? The public was even allowed to donate to them. I'm sure some stupid idiots actually did! People don't care, they do what they are told.

Being that nobody has REALLY come out with any actual objection or coherent argument that postulates the administrations or governments actions in regards to Syrian intervention do not rise to treasonous levels as defined by the US Constitution.

I have to believe that Denninger was entirely correct in his summations that treason has and continues to be committed by the Obama administration, the chief prognosticator being Barack Obama himself as the nominal leader of the nation.

reply to post by Phoenix

Really? is that what you think? you'd better go back and study things just a bit more. The clause cited in the OP is but one of the avenues available with an awake and mature citizenry - oh but one has to remember they quit teaching that stuff long ago - I digress

You haven't said what clause you are talking about...I suspect because you are mistakenly thinking of a different historical document that has no legal authority.

You clearly don't have a great understanding of the Constitution.

The clause you (incorrectly) cite in the OP is section 3 of Article 3. Article 3 establishes and defines the Judicial Branch of government, thus giving authority of "treason" to the Judicial Branch and not the citizens. Also, the punishment is not "death" as you incorrectly state, the punishment is decided by Congress. Here is the actual wording of Article 3 Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

What you quoted in the OP is part of the US Code.

Ugh. When did out leadership stop committing treason? Pretty sure that's an ongoing theme. Also, "al quaeda" had nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing at all. Our leadership acted alone in treasonous fashion on that day too.

reply to post by AlienScience


Yes you are correct but what would be used code or constitution?

Originally posted by Phoenix
Being that nobody has REALLY come out with any actual objection or coherent argument that postulates the administrations or governments actions in regards to Syrian intervention do not rise to treasonous levels as defined by the US Constitution.

I have to believe that Denninger was entirely correct in his summations that treason has and continues to be committed by the Obama administration, the chief prognosticator being Barack Obama himself as the nominal leader of the nation.

Really?

You have dodged the question about who defines our enemies???

Do we have a Declaration Of War against Al Qaeda?

Originally posted by Phoenix
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Yes you are correct but what would be used code or constitution?

That part of the US Code defines the punishment that Section 3 gave Congress the power to do so. The US Code is just a collection of laws/bills passed by Congress, it is not part of the Constitution.

But the definition of Treason and that is granted to the Judicial Branch still comes from the Constitution. Ordinary citizens have no say in the matter.

And please pay attention to the language, "Treason against the United States", it's going to be really hard to argue that the United States Government is treasonous against itself. Obama is operating within the government, not outside of it, it is impossible to commit treason against yourself.

In a blink of an eye Obama or any other President can name and enemy or declare that previous enemy an ally. This section really only applies to citizens, not the government itself.

Also think about this, "following orders" is not a defense...so if we were to strike Syria, you are also condemning anyone in the Military that is part of the strike to "treason" as well.

Please don't get caught up in rhetoric, stop and think for yourself.

reply to post by Phoenix


I think everyone is way to war weary to care. Or under stress of their own lives and the fake recovery of the recession. Does it really matter what the masses think or believe? Whatever decision they make, none of us will be part of it nor cann we do anything to stop it. I sure hope this does not escalate outside of that area cause if it does we are all the losers. I am sick and tired of every ally being brought into a war that is decided on by every american president in the name of oil under the guise of human tragedy. You have plenty of Ethical oil available to the north but don't seem to want to use it.

As for treason good luck with that, it seems the word impeach has been thrown around but nothing is coming of that. TPTB go to bed with whoever suits their ways to a means, doesn't mater what anyone thinks.

Originally posted by Urantia1111
Ugh. When did out leadership stop committing treason? Pretty sure that's an ongoing theme. Also, "al quaeda" had nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing at all. Our leadership acted alone in treasonous fashion on that day too.

Point taken but that's irrelevant, the point is Al Qaida has been the excuse for draconian action by our government and now it is giving aid and comfort to that enemy which by definition is treasonous.

Yup - I know cart before the horse but go with the thread instead of against as many are with you on your opinion.

reply to post by AlienScience


The government isn`t the "united states", the people are the "united states" without the people there is no "united states". A government with no people to govern isn`t a country.
The president isn`t a King he doesn`t decide who our enemies are, the people decide who our enemies are through our elected representatives. If our representatives vote to fund a military and send that military out to kill people then it`s safe to assume that the people they are killing are our enemies.
Can a president commit treason? absolutely, can our elected representatives commit treason? absolutely.
can all of them as a group commit treason? absolutely.

When is an enemy no longer considered to be an enemy? Not when the president decides,When our representatives stop using the peoples tax money to fund activities that are meant to kill or capture those people.

As long as our representatives are using the peoples tax money to fund activities meant to kill or capture our "enemies" then any tax money used to give aid or comfort to that same group of people, is a treasonous action.

Originally posted by Tardacus
reply to post by AlienScience

 

The government isn`t the "united states", the people are the "united states" without the people there is no "united states". A government with no people to govern isn`t a country.
The president isn`t a King he doesn`t decide who our enemies are, the people decide who our enemies are through our elected representatives. If our representatives vote to fund a military and send that military out to kill people then it`s safe to assume that the people they are killing are our enemies.
Can a president commit treason? absolutely, can our elected representatives commit treason? absolutely.
can all of them as a group commit treason? absolutely.

edit on 28-8-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

Sure, the President and any Government official can commit treason, but not through official government actions. They can do so in their personal actions, but not through their official government actions.

The people have no say at all who our "enemies" are. Further more, an "enemy" doesn't have to be a global defined group. Our "enemy" in one situation may be our "ally" in another.

This thread, like I said before, is silly. It is a pipe dream straight out of Right Wing World...the day dream and fantasize about different ways they can get rid of Obama.

I would put down any amount of money on a wager that Obama or no one else would ever be committed of treason over attacking Syria...it's just a dumb idea.

Originally posted by AlienScience

Originally posted by Tardacus
reply to post by AlienScience

 

The government isn`t the "united states", the people are the "united states" without the people there is no "united states". A government with no people to govern isn`t a country.
The president isn`t a King he doesn`t decide who our enemies are, the people decide who our enemies are through our elected representatives. If our representatives vote to fund a military and send that military out to kill people then it`s safe to assume that the people they are killing are our enemies.
Can a president commit treason? absolutely, can our elected representatives commit treason? absolutely.
can all of them as a group commit treason? absolutely.

edit on 28-8-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

Sure, the President and any Government official can commit treason, but not through official government actions. They can do so in their personal actions, but not through their official government actions.

The people have no say at all who our "enemies" are. Further more, an "enemy" doesn't have to be a global defined group. Our "enemy" in one situation may be our "ally" in another.

This thread, like I said before, is silly. It is a pipe dream straight out of Right Wing World...the day dream and fantasize about different ways they can get rid of Obama.

I would put down any amount of money on a wager that Obama or no one else would ever be committed of treason over attacking Syria...it's just a dumb idea.

so, your saying that if the president issued an executive order for the military to nuke american cities that wouldn`t be considered treason because it was done through official government actions?

yes it is the people who decide who our enemies are without the people there is no "united states" without a "united states" then it is impossible for the "united states" to have enemies.

Originally posted by neo96
While I think this is treason.

In the span of 1 decade we went to fighting AQ to aiding and abetting them.We truly have messed up 'leadership'.

Yeah, there is no doubt that our leadership is totally incompetent Look at the mess we are in, and it doesn't even make any sense or have any coherency or even... I mean it isn't even...

reply to post by AlienScience

Really?

You have dodged the question about who defines our enemies???

Do we have a Declaration Of War against Al Qaeda?

Why yes we do? Been to an airport recently? Seen any viper teams at bus stations etc etc...........

Ever hear of the TSA? Homeland Security???? Get real!!!

What is the reasons our criminal government tells us why we have to sacrifice our freedoms so that they protect us?

Al Qaeda!!!!!

Your either not paying attention or being deliberately obtuse or being payed to shill for the government. NO ONE can be that out of it.................

reply to post by seeker1963


Wait, I seem to remember a serious of Bush speeches about the "War on Terror" doesn't that mean we are in a war with Al Qaeda?

Those of you who continue to vote for Democrats and Republicans in the House, Senate, and for the President of the United States are also a huge part of the problem that has paved the way for a Rogue Government.

As long as you all continue to cling to and consciously participate in the partisan nonsense and the left/right paradigm that has divided the populace, YOU ARE COMPLICIT IN THE CRIMES OF THESE MAD MEN.

reply to post by supremecommander

Those of you who continue to vote for Democrats and Republicans in the House, Senate, and for the President of the United States are also a huge part of the problem that has paved the way for a Rogue Government.

As long as you all continue to cling to and consciously participate in the partisan nonsense and the left/right paradigm that has divided the populace, YOU ARE COMPLICIT IN THE CRIMES OF THESE MAD MEN.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!


Trying to get that thru peoples cognitive dissonance is like preaching to the choir..........

Originally posted by AlienScience


Sure, the President and any Government official can commit treason, but not through official government actions. They can do so in their personal actions, but not through their official government actions.

The people have no say at all who our "enemies" are. Further more, an "enemy" doesn't have to be a global defined group. Our "enemy" in one situation may be our "ally" in another.

This thread, like I said before, is silly. It is a pipe dream straight out of Right Wing World...the day dream and fantasize about different ways they can get rid of Obama.

I would put down any amount of money on a wager that Obama or no one else would ever be committed of treason over attacking Syria...it's just a dumb idea.

The idea that you cannot commit treason through "official government actions" is absolutely ludicrous.

Put down your pom poms and realize that the entire government has gone rogue. They no longer answer to the people. Of course no one would be convicted of treason if they bomb Syria, the are all goddamn criminals!!

Originally posted by MrSpad
As I have covered before we were on the same side as Iran in Afgansitan, the same side as Hezbollah in Bosnia, the same side as Maos communist in the Pacific etc. So no it is not treason to have a common enemy with an enemy. It happens all the time.

Of course the question of what helps Al Quaida and what does not is not simple. In Syria you have the rebels fighting for their freedom. When they win, and they will win. They will look back who helped them and who did nothing. A West that did nothing with radical groups who did is going to make people real receptive to the radicals. So the West will act. It really has no choice. Just as it acted did in Libya and Bosnia the idea of state owing its existance to radicals is simply not acceptable. One of the keys to make sure the rebels have the arms and the organization to deal with radicals after the civil war. A Syria run by Assad is no longer a reality, the best he can hope for is small area protected by Iran, Hezbollah and Lebanese militias and that would be one terrorist filled little state.

not while we were actively at war with them, as we are "supposed" to be with al ciada.

Originally posted by AlienScience

Originally posted by Tardacus
reply to post by AlienScience

 

The government isn`t the "united states", the people are the "united states" without the people there is no "united states". A government with no people to govern isn`t a country.
The president isn`t a King he doesn`t decide who our enemies are, the people decide who our enemies are through our elected representatives. If our representatives vote to fund a military and send that military out to kill people then it`s safe to assume that the people they are killing are our enemies.
Can a president commit treason? absolutely, can our elected representatives commit treason? absolutely.
can all of them as a group commit treason? absolutely.

edit on 28-8-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

Sure, the President and any Government official can commit treason, but not through official government actions. They can do so in their personal actions, but not through their official government actions.

The people have no say at all who our "enemies" are. Further more, an "enemy" doesn't have to be a global defined group. Our "enemy" in one situation may be our "ally" in another.

This thread, like I said before, is silly. It is a pipe dream straight out of Right Wing World...the day dream and fantasize about different ways they can get rid of Obama.

I would put down any amount of money on a wager that Obama or no one else would ever be committed of treason over attacking Syria...it's just a dumb idea.

So............in your view the constitution and its clauses as well as an oath of office are meaningless just to be caulked up to partisan bickering is that it?

As you say right wing world, I in turn say right back in the left wing world all is meaningless unless it fits the agenda which from you responses seem to be as the medias. "protect the ONE as much as possible" no matter how bad things get, no matter he may cause WW3, no matter he caused the ENTIRE mess in the first place via destabilization, no matter he now supports enemies used to justify very bad domestic policy, no matter what is your slogan as it goes - so who's partisan and who give one good god dang fart what used to protect you rights - folks like you amaze me in your intransience to admit wrong when its absolutely wrong to further a bankrupt agenda.

That is your problem - you have no real values and I am NOT referring to religion here, you cannot even bring yourself to believe in your birthright of citizenship - the United States constitution that heaven forbid is violated in your 1st amendment but the hell with all the others as you see fit.

Well mister or ms. whatever it may be, I fervently wish all the others to come down heavily upon your traitorous butt one of these days when the pendulum swings the other way which it is bound to do as you folks push way to far in what you see as your direction - it will be a ton of bricks fall upon you when it occurs - that will be the personal aspect you refer to won't it? if you have not destroyed it first. Which by the way is how I see you folks aiming.

I stand on my assertion and others here that this administration has and is committing treason by definition either by attacking Syrian government forces or installations and providing moral and material support to rebel Syrian forces that are without a doubt allied with Al Qaida which is the named enemy that is continuing to be used to extend a false emergency that is trampling all over American citizens rights against our constitutional rights.

Your idol is the ONE carrying OUT THE POLICIES against the constitution, you cannot say otherwise. All you can do is deflect, deflect ,deflect.