Illegal Aliens Demand Free Organ Transplants

Dont worry or fear, all of this will be over soon, this is just yet another distraction, so while everyone is hating others for things they cant control, the North American Union is still on board.

All of these so called hypocritical, disgusting, greedy little immigrants will soon be your new neighbors...

Ron Paul talking about the NAU

Here is an Oops moment with the MEGA Nation on display

This is real, and we had all better either get used to it, or stand up, either way this has been in the works for a very long time.

Peace, NRE.

I can tell you WAY more than this!

Hispanics are taking over in ALL the SERVICE INDUSTRYS!!

Dont believe me, call for a DISH Network to come to your house.

He will be Mexican.

They are only hiring their own kind.....

reply to post by wrabbit2000


I certainly see your point but I also cannot help but feel that these are the actions of people desperate to see their loved ones live.
I agree, that the health care system in the U.S is creaking - those paying-in appear to be getting fleeced.

I shudder at the thought of being poor and uninsured in the U.S - the situation for many Americans.

-------
Wealthy Mexicans and wealthy Americans do not have to live with the daily anxiety of a loved one or themselves getting sick and needing medical treatment.

At the end of the day ...... It sucks to be poor - Mexican or American !

According to a researcher at Rush University Medical Center, David Ansell, 20 percent of the organs donated in this country come from uninsured people and only 1 percent of the people who wind up getting organ transplants are uninsured, the Sun-Times reported. Source: www.nbcchicago.com...

A 2008 study by the American Medical Association determined that in a 20-year period non-citizens donated 2.5 percent of organs while receiving less than 1 percent.

link

Looking at heart transplantation, King and co-authors found that, at the time of donation, 25 percent of all organ donors did not have insurance or the private funds to pay for the surgery and care, and therefore would not have been eligible to receive an organ had they needed one. This data applies to U.S. citizens and non-citizens alike.

link
The issues being highlighted are:

U.S. citizenship is not a prerequisite for organ transplant

In a statement released late Monday, Northwestern officials said all prospective candidates for organ transplantation are evaluated "against a rigorous set of standards" and that "U.S. citizenship is not among them." Source: www.nbcchicago.com...

In a similar story reported in the New York Times, an illegal immigrant had his lifetime kidney dialysis payed for by the U.S government ($75,000 per year) but not the operation ($100,000).

He was also an illegal immigrant. So when his younger brother volunteered to donate a kidney to restore him to normal life, they encountered a health care paradox: the government would pay for a lifetime of dialysis, costing $75,000 a year, but not for the $100,000 transplant that would make it unnecessary.

New York Times

From the immigrants perspective:


If U.S. citizenship is not a prerequisite for organ transplant and the government is already paying $75,000 per year for dialysis.

The operation is cheaper.

And maybe thats the problem - its more profitable taking the government money to continue giving dialysis to the immigrants and uninsured, than it is to perform the operation. The system is outta whack.

_______


Another thing to note is that the number of illegal aliens who receive organ transplants is minuscule.

From 1988 to 2007 only 2,599 of the 414,901 organ transplants were received by individuals of unknown or unreported citizenship, a mere 0.63 percent

_______
Ultimately .....

The health care system is malfunctioning

+

Immigration policy is incoherent


Fix the system ..... don`t demonise the people trying to make the best of a bad lot.

Your anger is warranted - just focus it at cause of the problem - not a symptom of the problem.

________

The whole thing is a right bloody mess for just about everybody involved- forgive my intrusion in your domestic affairs - but imho, this thread needed a contrarian voice .

reply to post by UmbraSumus


Now I'd never go on to say U.S. Citizenship should be a requirement to having placement on the Organ list, let alone getting one. There are far far too many immigrants of the first generation type and still on residency cards or some other form of perfectly legal status to be saying something like that.

However, we're still talking about people who are, quite literally, committing a federal felony crime by merely standing where they are, anywhere they stand within these borders. Just as I would be if I decided England had a better system than the U.S. does, and so I got in there around the system and tried to demand NHS status for a transplant just because I needed one and said so.

Unless we want to get into racial things, which is utterly absurd given the %'s of legal Hispanics / Mexicans as well as many more who are 100% American with that heritage.

To me, it's 100% about the fact they circumvented everything about our nation to even GET here...around those in their OWN nation who are standing in line, legally, I might note, and then demand we give them free stuff for being successful felons. No... I don't see where they have the right to even joke much on it.

I feel for them on the humanity level but not enough to consign my nation to waste in helping them and the millions who follow, if even our laws are completely without meaning. Which isn't saying much more when the only solution the Gov HAS come up with is taking an erasure to the law in logic that reminds me of young kids.

THEN Go Back Where Ya Came From .....

Mexican Health Care Is Excellent and Affordable

One of your primary concerns when considering a move should be health care. Fortunately, you will find that, in general, health care in Mexico is very good…and in many places it is excellent. Most doctors and dentists in Mexico received at least part of their training in the U.S. (And many U.S. doctors have trained in Mexico, notably in Guadalajara.) Many of them continue to go to the U.S. or Europe for ongoing training.

Every medium to large city in Mexico has at least one first-rate hospital. And a big plus is that the cost of health care in Mexico is generally half or less what you might expect to pay in the U.S. The same goes for prescription drugs. Prescription drugs manufactured in Mexico cost, on average, about 50% less than the same drugs in the U.S. Plus, health insurance in Mexico costs much less than it does in the U.S.
Duh!

Public Health care delivery is accomplished via an elaborate provisioning and delivery system instituted by the Mexican Federal Government. Public health care is provided to all Mexican citizens as guaranteed via Article 4 of the Constitution. Public care is either fully or partially subsidized by the federal government, depending on the person's (Spanish: derechohabiente's) employment status. All Mexican citizens are eligible for subsidized health care regardless of their work status via a system of health care facilities operating under the federal Secretariat of Health (formerly the Secretaria de Salubridad y Asistencia, or SSA) agency.

Employed citizens and their dependents, however, are further eligible to use the health care program administered and operated by the Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social (IMSS) (English: Mexican Social Security Institute). The IMSS health care program is a tripartite system funded equally by the employee, its private employer, and the federal government.

The IMSS does not provide service to employees of the public sector. Employees in the public sector are serviced by the Instituto de Seguridad y Servicios Sociales de los Trabajadores del Estado (ISSSTE) (English: Institute for Social Security and Services for State Workers), which attends to the health and social care needs of government employees. This includes local, state, and federal government employees.

The government of the states in Mexico also provide health services independently of those services provided by the federal government programs. In most states, the state government has established free or subsidized healthcare to all their citizens.
Health care in Mexico

Who's kidding who here ?

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Honestly, I see the present day political dilemma, and economic standpoint of this, but in the big scheme of things, shouldn't humans be taking care of humans anyway? I mean think about it, if there's a place somewhere in the world that pays for organ transplants, why shouldn't anyone from any part of the world be able to go there and receive that? I believe that a good government, like the rest of the 31 developed countries, should take care of its people. America is the only developed country without free universal healthcare. But as an advanced race, we should implement that policy worldwide. Where all governments take care of their people, pay for their healthcare and whatnot. I don't know, it might sound like some kind of ideal utopian world, but to some people it's just common sense.

Originally posted by Kody27
reply to post by wrabbit2000

 

Honestly, I see the present day political dilemma, and economic standpoint of this, but in the big scheme of things, shouldn't humans be taking care of humans anyway? I mean think about it, if there's a place somewhere in the world that pays for organ transplants, why shouldn't anyone from any part of the world be able to go there and receive that? I believe that a good government, like the rest of the 31 developed countries, should take care of its people. America is the only developed country without free universal healthcare. But as an advanced race, we should implement that policy worldwide. Where all governments take care of their people, pay for their healthcare and whatnot. I don't know, it might sound like some kind of ideal utopian world, but to some people it's just common sense.

It's no coincidence that the U.S. is the most conservative industrialized nation and is in last place compared to other leading industrialized nations when it comes to taking care of it's people

No maternal leave
No Healthcare
And they would love to get rid of food aid that a lot of our poor citizens receive.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


We have more incentive's for being an illegal and coming to America than we have for it's own citizens. Why does this article not suprise me?

We might as well give them "free" transplants... I mean it's not like there a fetching "waiting" list for law abiding citizens...

This just gets sicker and sicker by the day~

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Hey Rabbit...as always...I will offer a little light from the other side of the argument, but agreed that this, at least in conservative headline mode, appears an egregious demand.

Some things that should be acknowledged from the get go…

We (the USA) are under no obligation to recognize them as citizens…they are here illegally.
We (as people) are obligated to recognize them as fellow human beings, with the same rights endowed by their creator as ourselves. Too often the rhetoric crosses into dehumanizinig.

And I guess the rub is always determining where each scenario falls within those realities.

I hunted down the original article…

“On the one hand, the intent of the national transplant registry is to base transplants on who needs them most, but there are indeed a whole group of people who find themselves shut out,” he said. “And these are people who are uninsurable, and it creates an ethical dilemma of doing the right thing against the extreme cost of doing a transplant.”

An average kidney transplant can cost between $100,000 and $200,000, Ansell said. The care needed before and after surgery, in addition to medication, can cost tens of thousands more.

“These are people who contribute to the community. The answer can’t be no access, but it’s going to require calling together all the transplant centers in the region, as well as politicians and members of the community to find an equitable solution,” Ansell said. “The other thing to note is that 20 percent of organs come from uninsured people, but around 1 percent of organs go to uninsured people who need them. These people donate the organs, but mostly don’t get access to them.”

www.suntimes.com...

First…set aside the illegal immigrant issue for a moment….Read that stat again…20% of Organs used in transplants come from uninsured people…but only 1% of uninsured people receive a transplant???

We have a bigger issue there…

Back to illegal…How many Illegal Immigrants donate organs? The Doc above only distinguishes between Uninsured and Insured.

If Illegal immigrants are giving a large number of organs to the program…does that change your view on them having access?

Bottom line for me…We need charities more involved. A charitable board can determine if citizenship status should be a determinate of funds spent.

What is the price tag for your heart? liver" kidney? What percentage of donated organs originate with undocumented immigrants? Will it impact the program and waiting list if they boycott donation? Is it fair that the program accepts donated organs from undocumented immigrants, but does not provide the same resources to them if they need a transplant?

But…(A) the fact that 20% of organs come from uninsured (legal or illegal donors) while only 1% of transplants go to uninsured…that needs to be fixed somehow IMO. (B) Who pays for the transplants? Insurance companies? Hospitals? Charitable orgs?” Gov? All of the above?

Not as cut and dry as it first appears either…just my 2 cents.

Edit to add: From 1988-2007...7,760 people who donated organs were assumed to be undocumented immigrantsvirtualmentor.ama-assn.org...

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by wrabbit2000

 

We have more incentive's for being an illegal and coming to America than we have for it's own citizens. Why does this article not suprise me?

We might as well give them "free" transplants... I mean it's not like there a fetching "waiting" list for law abiding citizens...

This just gets sicker and sicker by the day~

So between 88-07 over 7000 undocumented immigrants DONATED thier organs in transplants to save American citizens lives. Can you guess how many of them are eligable to recieve a donation themselves?

Just saying...

Well, I do hate to see anybody suffer and I think we need some better options when it comes to getting a timely, viable transplant. However, legal citizens don't even receive free transplants. Also, I'm pretty sure if I immigrated to Mexico illegally and started demanding a free transplant, I'm pretty sure the only transplant I would get would be to a Mexican jail.

On a different note, in a SHTF situation, what do you think would happen if US citizens started escaping to Mexico what would be the likely oucome? Do you think their citizens would be picketing in the streets to let the "poor Americans stay"? I somehow doubt it.

After reading that I am open to putting land mines on the border.

Hate me for it if you want but I don't care.

reply to post by Indigo5


I had to read your previous comment where you sourced this first and i'll just quote off your reply directly to me.

So between 88-07 over 7000 undocumented immigrants DONATED thier organs in transplants to save American citizens lives. Can you guess how many of them are eligable to recieve a donation themselves?

Just saying...

I definately understand where your coming from. Does this constitute Illegals receiving free transplants??? If so I'd like to know your reasoning, I'm not saying that they don't deserve the transplants but, in a country that provides more incentives to illegals than it's own citizens which is barely keeping the dollar above water produces many thoughts of why this is just b.s. The humanitarian in me says give them whatever they want, yet we can't even fix our economy but we give out freebies to illegals like "candy".

Furthermore (And please don't take this one the wrong way) does America not hold the right to that Illegal who died in America and the organs? Would Mexico return a "Heart" from a American who died in Mexico to save an American? And can I go to Mexico and receive a "free" transplant?

Apparently there's a new app you can get for your smart phone that hooks you up with potential donors. What I saw looked like a google map with highlighted pin drops for people with organs for sale/donation.

Yep, there's an app for that.

reply to post by Indigo5


I read your whole post, let me first say, and I really have to note you make a compelling argument. Except for one thing. I cannot..ever..get past the illegal status. It's like having two applicants for a job in front of you. One a fine, clean cut and well kept man with experience and intelligent manor. The other with experience to match but barely presentable and challenged to form complete and coherent sentences...and carrying honesty/character related criminal background. I don't mean stupid. I mean the all too common 'tweet speak' I'm starting to hear where people talk like they tweet. :shk:

Now, experience being equal? I'll hire the college guy...but not because he went to college. Experience is what matters when you want a job DONE ...not just listed as 'filled' by a warm body. I'll hire him because the criminal background drops the other on the spot, out of hand and without further consideration when it's the type I specified.

Illegal aliens did one of two things. They either came here legally and then dishonestly overstayed...eventually moving right into a string of crimes to support that continued presence (serious crime or not...living here as someone you're not can't legally be done if you do more than sit in a house and have others do everything in life for you). The second? They snuck in the begin with...which broke a felony law the moment their big toe crossed our border..and the crimes have piled on since. ID, Perjury in every application which asked about status or a valid SS # and so on.

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To the REST of your point? The cost isn't the issue. The moral and ethical obligation is. We should NEVER let one of our own citizens die because they couldn't afford life and death care. Period. Full Stop. End of Ride. That includes legal residents, perm. green card holders and even those who may be in limbo but still legal to reside here beyond simple tourist. Race, national origin or any other factor should play NO role..and I really mean that. A legal green card holder who came from Tehran or Kabul should get the SAME treatment as someone who was born here. Legal is legal is legal is legal. By the same token, so is criminal...and I don't believe we have *ANY* obligation to those who broke our laws to be here and/or remain here.

Just my take..and a bit more explanation, since I can see this is a more sensitive subject than I had anticipated it would be.

Originally posted by sulaw

in a country that provides more incentives to illegals than it's own citizens

You have bought into hyperbolic rhetoric. The above claim simply is not true by any objective standard.

Originally posted by sulaw
Furthermore (And please don't take this one the wrong way) does America not hold the right to that Illegal who died in America and the organs? Would Mexico return a "Heart" from a American who died in Mexico to save an American?

No...No..No...In short, people are not property. That undocumented immigrants' heart, kidney et al. do not belong to the US Gov. We recover bodies from all around the world of US Citizens, including Mexico and vice-versa all the time. The validity of citizenship and physical ownership over someone's body aka thier humanity are two completely different things.

reply to post by Indigo5


Seriously, Indigo? I find yours to be a completely lame argument, not just based on poor data, but poor logic and reasoning as well.

For starters, your own link says...

No comprehensive data on citizenship status of organ donors is available from procurement organizations, but there is detailed information available about the citizenship status of those awaiting transplant and those receiving organs.

So, if we want to post statistics based on "no comprehensive data", let me throw some more your way...

While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens, he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another annual death toll of 4,745. That’s 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.

While no one – in or out of government – tracks all U.S. accidents caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence suggests many of last year’s 42,636 road deaths involved illegal aliens.

Read more at www.wnd.com...

reply to post by Deetermined


I qouted the American Medical Association study...

You qouted World Net Daily...

Nothing personal, but I am not interested in that kind of debate.

reply to post by Indigo5


Nothing personal, but you have nothing to debate. Your article clearly says that they don't document who the DONORS are, just the people waiting in line to receive organs. As for my WND link, it shows it's references too. It's not like they made their own data up. If you don't like my source, find another one, there is plenty of data out there that suggests that more American citizens die each day at the hands of an illegal alien than saving anyone's life. I happen to know someone personally who has died at the hands of a drunk illegal alien in my town and I haven't lived here very long.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I read your whole post, let me first say, and I really have to note you make a compelling argument. Except for one thing. I cannot..ever..get past the illegal status. It's like having two applicants for a job in front of you. One a fine, clean cut and well kept man with experience and intelligent manor. The other with experience to match but barely presentable and challenged to form complete and coherent sentences...and carrying honesty/character related criminal background. I don't mean stupid. I mean the all too common 'tweet speak' I'm starting to hear where people talk like they tweet. :shk:

Now, experience being equal? I'll hire the college guy...but not because he went to college.

20% of all organ donors are uninsured...less than 1% of all organ recipients are uninsured...over 99% have insurance?

They aren't sceening for education...or character...they are screening for the 100k-200k that the transplant costs...aside from the organ...which is free, but albiet so valuable that mankind with all of it's science has failed to replicate God's work.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Illegal aliens did one of two things. They either came here legally and then dishonestly overstayed...eventually moving right into a string of crimes to support that continued presence (serious crime or not...living here as someone you're not can't legally be done if you do more than sit in a house and have others do everything in life for you). The second? They snuck in the begin with...which broke a felony law the moment their big toe crossed our border..and the crimes have piled on since. ID, Perjury in every application which asked about status or a valid SS # and so on.

3rd...They were brought here as unaware children...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
To the REST of your point? The cost isn't the issue. The moral and ethical obligation is. We should NEVER let one of our own citizens die because they couldn't afford life and death care. Period.

And yet we do?...and even through the Organ Donor program ...all-the-time...less than 1% of recipients are uninsured.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
That includes legal residents, perm. green card holders and even those who may be in limbo but still legal to reside here beyond simple tourist. Race, national origin or any other factor should play NO role..and I really mean that. A legal green card holder who came from Tehran or Kabul should get the SAME treatment as someone who was born here. Legal is legal is legal is legal. By the same token, so is criminal...and I don't believe we have *ANY* obligation to those who broke our laws to be here and/or remain here.
.

We..."we" have any obligation....are the organ donor programs international? Cross-border? And who pays for them? Charities? or tax-payers? The organ donor program...is it a branch of INS? Justice? Is it a political org?

I get what you are saying...but...I am not convinced.

Do I think taxpayer dollars should be spent for organ transplants to the tune of 100k-200k on undocumented immigrants? No...but are we talking about tax-payer dollars?

Lastly...on the crime front...should criminals be eligable? To recieve or donate?

Should we forbid undocumented immigrants from donating?

Prison inmates

In the United States, prisoners are not discriminated against as organ recipients and are equally eligible for organ transplants along with the general population.

...

Prisons typically do not allow inmates to donate organs to anyone but immediate family members.

en.wikipedia.org...

Just looking to feed the discussion with some relevant views and info.