Ummmm. Can anyone say "Waco".

Can you phone call any Federal Department and get the name of the Boss?



4 Our Government does things we would not.


a) If you borrow someone's car do you return it?
Maybe even put some gas in the tank.

b) If you sleep over at someone's house, do you respect their stuff.
Maybe even help work on it.

c) If you get called do you answer the phone?
Maybe even talk with the caller.




a) The United States Government took 97,000 miles of 2-Lane highways
from the States, and in return levied a federal tax on our gas,
and muscled their way into our State Legislatures to force through laws
of their liking,
by threatening to not repair or upkeep those same highways.

This is like someone [I]borrowing your car,
and instead of returning it

they bill you for gas
they tell you who to do business with
and they tell you what you can eat or drink

b) The Federal Government took huge acreage of America
to protect if for us.






So they said...


This is like inviting someone to sleep over at your home,
and in the morning you find they have sold your flat screen
and your computer to the local junky, so they could get a fix.

Not a real friend.






c) There is NOT one SINGLE department OF government LEFT
that a citizen can call and get a live person. They all
use automated answering systems now.

This is like calling to talk to your significant other
about an overdraft on your joint account and hearing this...

Press 1 to choose a movie to take me too
Press 2 to choose a place to eat out tonight
Press 3 to buy me coffee
Press 4 to send me a gift card
Press 5 for Spanish

Can you phone call any Federal Department and get the name of the Boss?


Mike

3 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't government supposed to protect property?

3 Happiness doesn't come from pursuit.


If happiness comes from Pursuit
then the only happy people in America are

Cops in HOT pursuit.
The Coast Guard using pursuit boats.
Professional sports teams in pursuit of the trophy.
Profilers in pursuit of the serial crazy person.
Corporations in pursuit of profit.
Hunters in pursuit of prey.


Pursuit doesn't seemed to be used anymore except in the predatorial sense.
Does any of this really describe happiness to the reader?

Too many people are unaware that the famous promise in the American
Declaration of Independence — to protect "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness" — was actually a last-minute edit. [color=gold] Thomas Jefferson
had originally written, "Life, liberty and property," a phrase that
more closely resembles our founding fathers' commitment to limited government
influence on the people.

How many people reading this thread actually own their own property.

And of the few that do,
how many are happy with the regulations and taxes hanging over their heads.


Do you know what happened to the last group of Americans
who actually tried to pursue property?

After 81 days, the longest armed siege in modern American history ended last
week without the violence of similar standoffs at Waco, Tex., and Ruby Ridge,
Idaho.
The 16 remaining holdouts from the right-wing anti-Government group called the
Freemen surrendered to the F.B.I. and left their remote Montana ranch Thursday
night. Members of the group face charges of threatening Federal officials and
defrauding banks and businesses of more than $1.8 million.

They were categorized as Terrorist,
amidst a firestorm of slander, and media spin-doctoring.

Here is a quote of their actual greivance.

If you google “land patents” “property tax” you will find sites like this one
that explain the whole concept. Here is the gist of it, as best I can
understand it. Title to much of the land in the United States will trace back
to a “federal land patent”, where someone bought land from the United States
Government. (We don’t want to think too hard about how the United States
Government got title to the land.) That patent was a contract between
somebody and the United States, which is superior to any other claim on the
property. If you get the paperwork straight, you will be the beneficiary of
that superiority, thereby making you not have to pay property taxes and having
it so no bank could foreclose on you.

forbes magazine / Do land patents trump property tax?

The Freeman were sieged by their own government
for passing down the original land patent from generation
to generation and failing to get onto the taxed-into-slavery
system everyone else is on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't government supposed to protect property?


Mike

2 Ummmm. Can anyone say "Waco".

Esoteric Decryption 2: We don't have rights in America

People say that Americans have rights.
Even when those rights are unpopular.
Things like freedom of speech,
the right to keep and bear arms,
the right to own property,
the right to assemble,
freedom of religion.


Too that I say COW-DROPPINGS.
Big steaming piles of COW-droppings.

We have rights?
Really?!!!

You wana see how much we REALLY have those rights.
. [color=gold] Try combining them.

What do you think will happen if a group exercises their right to assemble AND
their right to bear arms.

In May, 1967, 29 members of the Black Panthers marched on the
California Capitol in Sacramento, armed with rifles and assault weapons, to
protest against the Mulford Act, a law that prohibited carrying loaded
firearms in public. It was signed by then California Governor and future
President Ronald Reagan. It’s ironic that Reagan, a supporter of gun rights as
president, signed legislation that directly disarmed the Panthers during a
time of racial tension in the State of California.

Governor Ronald Reagan called out the Nation Guard.
That's what happened.




Ok, what about the right to Free speech, and Religion.








Yeah, no.
Just type "prayer in public" into any search engine and click on news.




Ok,
how about we just cut to chase.

If we had rights,
in this country,
I mean really had rights,
we should be able to combine all of them at once.



freedom of speech,
the right to keep and bear arms,
the right to own property,
the right to assemble,
freedom of religion.







Gee, I wonder if that one has been tried.












Ummmm. Can anyone say "Waco".


Mike

We should Abrogate the 22nd Amendment to the United States Constitution

Esoteric Decryption 1: We can't contact anyone in any position.

1. We can't contact anyone in any position.

As an American citizen I can write a letter to Congress, email my senator,
even make a video talking to the President.


But what about lobbyist.
Can I contact them?
I would have to know who they are first.


Here is the chain of command in the USA

President of the United States
Vice President of the United States
Speaker of the House of Representatives
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury
Secretary of Defense
Attorney General
Secretary of the Interior
Secretary of Agriculture
Secretary of Commerce
Secretary of Labor
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation
Secretary of Energy
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Secretary of Homeland Security

Isn't that interesting.
The Secretary of Homeland is now on the chain of command.
So if they completely fail at their job, they get to be in charge.
This conflict of motive with mission is unlike any other position on the list.


And I still don't see where lobbyists or Political parties appear on the list.


Yet, the majority of the News would have us believe that authority lies with
Republicans & Democrats, and with Liberal Interests, and Conservative Groups.



I can think of one way to solve the power of big money
and it's influence on Washington.

We should Abrogate the 22nd Amendment to the United States Constitution

Our Politicians are freaked out by "we the people."
We say we want one thing, then we vote a different way.
We scream and get angry about what TV tells us,
and then we blame the people who can't afford TV airtime without getting big donations to buy it.

Our irrational behavior is driving them into the arms of their donors,
and away from the interests of their constituents.


Until we stop firing our elected officials
they will be continually bought out by the donations of big business.

My instincts tell me that it is the corporate controlled media
in collusion with the invisible permanent bureaucracy
that are the source of all our problems.



There has been a lot of discussion about deficits and debt.

Everything seemed to be prepackaged for us.

Even the analogies were already chosen
and it seemed like we were debating
architecture more than money.

Debt Ceiling? WTF.


Anyway, in an attempt to make all the fog in the room evaporate at one instance
tell me who is not on this list. This list of potential cuts.

social security
medicaid
welfare
unemployment
food stamps
politicians pay
politicians health care
politicians retirement fund
Defense spending
services
infrastructure
payments on the interest on the debt itself

Anyone . . . anyone see what's missing?






























. [color=gold] Public employees.














Namely Washington public servants.














Politicians come and go,
but some of those civil servant chaps have been there for decades
and I bet you the lot of them know where all the money went
and who is making arms deals, and where the laws are hidden.



In other words,
Save the poor, throw out the Bureaucrats, and reelect politicians with bad news.

If our politicians trust us to reelect them
they won't have to beg for money.


Make our officials stay and finish the job.
Only then will We The People start to win.



We should Abrogate the 22nd Amendment to the United States Constitution


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy
3 Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't government supposed to protect property?

3 Happiness doesn't come from pursuit.


If happiness comes from Pursuit
then the only happy people in America are

Cops in HOT pursuit.
The Coast Guard using pursuit boats.
Professional sports teams in pursuit of the trophy.
Profilers in pursuit of the serial crazy person.
Corporations in pursuit of profit.
Hunters in pursuit of prey.


Pursuit doesn't seemed to be used anymore except in the predatorial sense.
Does any of this really describe happiness to the reader?

Too many people are unaware that the famous promise in the American
Declaration of Independence — to protect "life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness" — was actually a last-minute edit. [color=gold] Thomas Jefferson
had originally written, "Life, liberty and property," a phrase that
more closely resembles our founding fathers' commitment to limited government
influence on the people.

How many people reading this thread actually own their own property.

And of the few that do,
how many are happy with the regulations and taxes hanging over their heads.


Do you know what happened to the last group of Americans
who actually tried to pursue property?

After 81 days, the longest armed siege in modern American history ended last
week without the violence of similar standoffs at Waco, Tex., and Ruby Ridge,
Idaho.
The 16 remaining holdouts from the right-wing anti-Government group called the
Freemen surrendered to the F.B.I. and left their remote Montana ranch Thursday
night. Members of the group face charges of threatening Federal officials and
defrauding banks and businesses of more than $1.8 million.

They were categorized as Terrorist,
amidst a firestorm of slander, and media spin-doctoring.

Here is a quote of their actual greivance.

If you google “land patents” “property tax” you will find sites like this one
that explain the whole concept. Here is the gist of it, as best I can
understand it. Title to much of the land in the United States will trace back
to a “federal land patent”, where someone bought land from the United States
Government. (We don’t want to think too hard about how the United States
Government got title to the land.) That patent was a contract between
somebody and the United States, which is superior to any other claim on the
property. If you get the paperwork straight, you will be the beneficiary of
that superiority, thereby making you not have to pay property taxes and having
it so no bank could foreclose on you.

forbes magazine / Do land patents trump property tax?

The Freeman were sieged by their own government
for passing down the original land patent from generation
to generation and failing to get onto the taxed-into-slavery
system everyone else is on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't government supposed to protect property?

Mike

What caught me most about your thread, MikeGrouchy, was pursuit of happiness, and the combination of the right to assemble and protest with the right to bear arms. Both say it all, IMHO, about where we are and what's going on here, and what a lie it is....between the constiution, the bill of rights, and law and the "idea" of justice....

But this is also why I don't participate in any political threads. I don't believe we have a grasp, really, on where, what, how, etc. Nor do I believe, depressingly (sorry) that much is going to change in that way. Get some ethereal, at this point , body called "government" to adhere to what have become equally ethereal documents, and concepts.....

Sorry, to me the politicians are all on the same side, providing a display of distraction, while money is made behind the scenes all around that, and those of us writing about it, mostly, are the losers, and I don't see how we will ever override what's going on as far as that is concerned.

Still, appreciate your OP, the thought and the writing behind it.
Tetra50

ETA: It's a trickle down, betray the rights of one, by judging them when offered up for judgement, pick anyone : Martin Luther King, John Kennedy, anyone.......and the moment the things slid by, every second, those document, concepts this "freedom" of a representative republic was undermined, chip by chip, second by second, till it no longer exists enough for someone like me to even consider how to reclaim it.....

In fact, it was called "The Great Experiment." Perhaps, it always was that, and a lie from the beginning, despite all the blood shed and lives lost for the concept of it. I cry about things like this, often, frequently, and then try to get up the next morning.....

Thank you for your reply tetra50,

I honestly didn't expect to get a single one.

The ATS curse being that non-emotion based
well researched threads always sink out of sight
never to be heard from again.




Maybe there is life on this planet after all.





I have a response to make.
Give me a moment while I get my notes.


Mike

At first blush this may seem unrelated to
the confusion of politics and my
indictment of past Government
actions, but it circles back.

Archimedes was also the first scientific engineer,
the man searching for general principles and applying
them to specific engineering problems.

His application of the lever principle to the war machines
defending Syracuse are well known; yet he also applied
the same principle to find the volume of the segment of
a sphere by an unusually beautiful balancing method
about which we shall have more to say later in this
chapter.

He used the same method to determine the volumes
of other solids devoid of revolution (ellipsoid, parabolid,
hyperbolid) and to find the center of gravity of a semi-
circle and a hemisphere.

It is not know how many of Archimedes' works have
been lost [color=gold] (one of the most important, The Method,
came to light only in 1906) but his extant books,
including On Spirals, On The Measurement of the Circle,
Quadrature of the Parabola, On Conoids and Spheroids,
On the Sphere and Cylinder, Book of Lemmas, and
others, are unmatched by anything else produced in
antiquity.

- Page 63-64
- A History of π
- Petr Beckmann
- University of Colorado
- 1970

It's not the statements,
and analysis that I posted above,
so much as the method I used to get them
that I wish to share.

I figured I would test the water.

If the thread sank without a single response,
then so be it.

As it has not,
and I got one nibble
Here now,
is the method I used.


Mike

It occurred to me that Thomas Jefferson
the Architect of the United States Declaration of Independence
was also an Architect, in the classical sense.

"Surely he must have been informed By Euclids' 5 Postulates"
- I thought to myself.


So I did a comparison.


The four separate posts
by me
at the beginning of this thread
are commentary on what I found.



United States Declaration of Independence
¦1¦ that all men are created equal,
¦2¦ that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
¦3¦ that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
¦4¦ That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
¦5¦ That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Euclids' five Postulates
¦1¦ A straight line segment can be drawn joining any two points.
¦2¦ Any straight line segment can be extended indefinitely in a straight line.
¦3¦ Given any straight line segment, a circle can be drawn having the segment as radius and one endpoint as center.
¦4¦ All right angles are congruent.
¦5¦ If two lines are drawn which intersect a third in such a way that the sum of the inner angles on one side is less than two right angles, then the two lines inevitably must intersect each other on that side if extended far enough.


Comparing 1 to 1
I thought
"We should be able to contact anyone in any position.
Franklin formed the Post office,
the Millitary and Darpa did a bang up job creating e-mail
on the same principle.

But has it gone wrong?

And I found
1 We can't contact anyone in any position.


The other 3 are similar.

2 We don't have rights in America
3 Happiness doesn't come from pursuit.
4 Our Government does things we would not.

We should have all those rights,
Happiness should be from property,
and If our Government is not square, how does it expect us to be?

Point 5,
I leave as an exercise to the reader.


And thank you so much, for reading.


Mike

Shhhhh,

We dont want people to hear/read you....

People are oblivious to whats going on.

Freedom means Hardees or Taco Bell, nike or reebok, lets turn on TMZ and see our favorite freedom actor.

Society is lost. Brainwashed by corporate interests.


Talk to the person in charge, lmao- is there anyone driving this boat and whats his/her name?

Originally posted by liejunkie01
Shhhhh,

We dont want people to hear/read you....

People are oblivious to whats going on.

Freedom means Hardees or Taco Bell, nike or reebok, lets turn on TMZ and see our favorite freedom actor.

Society is lost. Brainwashed by corporate interests.


Talk to the person in charge, lmao- [color=gold] is there anyone driving this boat and whats his/her name?

NO kiddin!

As the Documentary "Century of the Self" explained,

It's not so much The People who are in charge,
as it is "Their Feelings".

- By Adam Curtis.

You nailed it.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


No, it has not all gone wrong.

#5 is the answer to your question.

#5 is the inevitable conclusion of the first 4.

It's war. It's a cycle.

The two lines clash on one side, then they move away from each other, balance, and eventually clash on the other side.

It is this, or that.

All 5 principles exist at all times, but when there is the collision, the first 4 principles buckle to the 5th principle, until the rebound.

A line segment extended infinitely is no longer a segment.

If there are no right angles, then there is nothing congruent.

If there are no segments, there is not radius alone, but diameter, if a circle is drawn as if cut in half by the line; and the point is not an end, but is discerned as the core of the circle. But if there is no end, what is the point in the circle?

So then, there must be an end.

The intersection.

War is inevitable. From one cycle to the next. It is all as it should be.

Therefore, we know that the 5th statement was not designed to be any kind of letter of the law, but was built into the law that it might survive and last as a message to the future Americans; because it was completely inevitable that their problems were not eradicated, but instead, the yo-yo had simply begun its journey away from the hand. But now the yo-yo is coming back to the hand, and it will stop. They foresaw this, therefore their exhortation.

"Take down that government that takes you down, from the inside out. Or else you're doomed to stay in the the hand and suffocate."

It is not our current leaders that gave us permission; neither was it Thomas Jefferson who gave us permission.

The founders were simply instructing us as to what the Creator has already given to us, and were instructing us with His commands. Now seeing as how these rights are given by the Creator, and men seek to take them away, then therefore, do the people take them back? The men that seek to take these powers away CANNOT take those powers away! If they could, then why would they attempt to use the letter?

But those full of grace use the letter because they do not seek to force, but to instruct in the better wisdom so that you yourself might have the power to act and the will to understand.

Simple instructions. Not a way things should be, but the way things are inevitably.

You will face men again.

I have never been able to understand how in the world people in the USA think we are so immune to destruction. As if our playgrounds were secure. No amount of steel walls, neither cameras, neither overly-educated security guards could ever protect humans from their good, neither from their greed. For our spirits are so much more powerful than the petty physical and metaphysical aspects which we use to attempt to impede each other.

How silly.

If you associate too closely with your land, with your home, with your stuff, with even your body, you are not truly at home. You are lost. You will never be free. You have burdened yourself, and for what can you fight? That which fails and burns up, eventually? That which you will lose anyway?

But if you associate closely with love, and with courage, and with respect, and with generosity, and with justice, how could you possibly go wrong? You cannot.

With fear only can you go wrong.

With love only can you go right.

Now there is fear. How ironic that when there is war, there must by necessity be one side that is right, for we all despise war.

But a kingdom divided itself cannot stand, so two evils hardly battle against each other, and not for long at that.

But war is between the good and the evil; or do two positively charged magnets collide with each other? Do two negatively charged magnets collide with each other? But only a positively charged magnet and a negatively charged magnet. But two magnets with like charge will give each other space, and will be content with where they are at; not desiring, neither needing, to occupy the space of the other. Now the two can be pushed together to touch for a moment, but not for long, for the tension becomes too much to hold, so they separate.

So who is evil then? That is the question.

IS the government right in their change? Were the forefathers wrong about their understanding of the future? Is their command real? Has all history given us a lesson, or is all history wrong and the enemy has changed his tactics that we might be fooled into the wrong thinking this time, at this most crucial time in history, where the whole planet is seemingly at stake; and quite literally with the kind of weapons we're tossing around.

And so, it soon begins... maybe... save the intercession of the Lord Himself.

You speak math!

And I gave you a star.

But what you have written is the most
dangerous,
rebellious thing I have read on ATS in years.





That's a compliment.


Mike

Man,
I had to read that again.

Someone should put that to music.

It has the cadence of a song. An anthem. A war cry.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I tend to do that. People will agree with your statement, but it's generally not a compliment from others.

Wow what a statement. A war song. Interesting.

If a kick ass song is made with math lyrics....

... how to say this....

/yoda voice
"A sign of the Apocalypse, that is.


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy
Thank you for your reply tetra50,

I honestly didn't expect to get a single one.

The ATS curse being that non-emotion based
well researched threads always sink out of sight
never to be heard from again.




Maybe there is life on this planet after all.

I have a response to make.
Give me a moment while I get my notes.

Mike

Whatever your response, from Tetra, I tell you truly, that your sentiments and research do not fall on deaf ears at all....never think that. I hear you, truly. Whatever my response, and i hesitate to repeat it, for I would not dissuade those less cynical and younger than me, for the hope of taking it back or making it truly what it was meant to be by definition, if not by actions.......
Yours truly and with you all the way,
Tetra50

Originally posted by tetra50

Whatever your response, from Tetra, I tell you truly, that your sentiments and research do not fall on deaf ears at all....never think that. I hear you, truly. Whatever my response, and i hesitate to repeat it, for I would not dissuade those less cynical and younger than me, for the hope of taking it back or making it truly what it was meant to be by definition, if not by actions.......
Yours truly and with you all the way,
Tetra50

You know,
I knew there was a silent majority on ATS who just read
and don't comment.

I guess I forgot.

Thanks for reminding me.


Mike

I am right here in LA with you, Mike. And I read your considered comments often. Don't ever think your voice isn't heard, nor unappreciated.
There are many of us who still care, but just daily life has overcome of us, and some other things as well, but it doesn't mean we don't care, don't listen, don't still believe in the ethics and foundation of this country that has been fought for so often by so many.
Sincerely,
Tetra
Keep up the good work......for those of us to hoarse and tired to speak anymore. We are still with you.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


You can call me. I'm a live person. Everyone in my office is a real person. They have phone numbers...

Also, you can certainly call any federal "department" and get the name of the boss. You can also go onto that department's website and see a nice picture of him/her. This crap isn't secret...