Nuclear apocalypse -- Isn't it about time we call on ET for help?

**MODS** I meant to post this in "Aliens and UFOs". Please move to a more appropriate forum if you see fit. Thanks.

I'm going to try not to get sidetracked by arguments that ET doesn't exist, ETs are demons or even that I'm just crazy. None of it matters and I think humanity has run out of options. I've said before in other threads that this is the single most important issue ever facing humanity. Activism in the area of nuclear power is, and always will be, useless. We will never convince enough people that ALL of the 430+ nuclear power plants worldwide must be shut down -- fast. Forget that. Forget writing your congressman/congresswoman. That's an even bigger joke. This linked article should make any normal person stop and think beyond what the crisp, shiny men and women so finely dressed tell them when they say how safe nuclear power is. Here's just one quote:

...the worst case scenario could play out in death to billions of people.

Nuclear apocalypse near

No, we the public don't know what ET is really all about. But, if we are going to die anyway, we should probably start thinking quickly about using ever option, including a sincere worldwide effort to request help from beyond our planet, dimension, universe, whatever. We have been stupid long enough. We've allowed the "smart" people to convince us that nukes are safe. Now I think it's time to stop being so simple-minded, so willing to let those with lots of cash to lobby congress and other law-making bodies make life and death decisions for us. I don't think there are too many options left to us.

I was just working on posting this but you beat me to it.

Looks like at this point Tepco has been caught i a massive lie. The last two years they have been saying its not that bad. There are major problems coming from the plant.

The ground is so saturated with water leaking out that the whole structure is literally sinking into the ground. Its a process called liquefaction, where the ground is so wet that the objects sitting on it sink because they are more dense than the ground.

Although fuel rod removal happens on a daily basis at the 430+ nuclear sites around the world, it is a very delicate procedure even under the best of circumstances. What makes fuel removal at Fukushima so dangerous and complex is that it will be attempted on a fuel pool whose integrity has been severely compromised. However, it must be attempted as Reactor 4 has the most significant problems structurally, and this pool is on the top floor of the building. There are numerous other reasons that this will be a dangerous undertaking.

- The racks inside the pool that contain this fuel were damaged by the explosion in the early days of the accident.

- Zirconium cladding which encased the rods burned when water levels dropped, but to what extent the rods have been damaged is not known, and probably won't be until removal is attempted.

- Saltwater cooling has caused corrosion of the pool walls, and probably the fuel rods and racks.

- The building is sinking.

- The cranes that normally lift the fuel were destroyed.

- Computer-guided removal will not be possible; everything will have to be done manually.

- TEPCO cannot attempt this process without humans, which will manage this enormous task while being
bombarded with radiation during the extraction and casking.

- The process of removing each rod will have to be repeated over 1,300 times without incident.

- Moving damaged nuclear fuel under such complex conditions could result in a criticality if the rods come into close proximity to one another, which would then set off a chain reaction that cannot be stopped.

What could potentially happen is the contents of the pool could burn and/or explode, and the entire structure sustain further damage or collapse. This chain reaction process could be self-sustaining and go on for a long time. This is the apocalyptic scenario in a nutshell.

I just hope they can remove them without making the whole mess go critical. It would cause a nuclear fire the likes of which we have never seen. The whole world is in for it if thees things burn and vaporize.

Covering the whole thing isn't viable because the whole mess is sinking into japan and under the water table.

I feel like Japan should have asked for more help earlier, now the whole planet is at risk. This is quite the serious issue and most of the world wont ever take notice.

Edit: ET wont help us....we cant even get along as one race. Ask all you want but help will not come. We did this to ourselves and we alone have to deal with the outcome.

Anyone else get the impression that people in Moscow and the RT Newsroom are going to be nearly ecstatic and celebrating if this place goes up? For god's sake, is there ANY remote possibility of a bad outcome they didn't mention? Well, I think they left out the remote chance of a meteorite striking the crane operator at the critical moment the fuel pod is in the air and out of cooling fluid around it. That would be bad too. Shame on them for leaving out a doom possibility.

Every effort at Fuku since the first "1 year plan" was formed and filed by TEPCO has been about this point. The removal of those fuel rods. That's the least of what we ought to be worried about because short of God himself smiting the place with a tornado or bolt of Zeus level lightning, they'll get those out okay.

It's the slag heaps we used to call reactor cores that really worry me....and again, damn, talk about focusing on the ABSOLUTE worst "everything imaginable went wrong with a couple that weren't imagined" scenario. If people only went by that article and knowing the topic real well outside it? I'd almost say some people at RT need counseling. Their near gleeful obsession with mass body counts is sick.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta



Edit: ET wont help us....we cant even get along as one race. Ask all you want but help will not come. We did this to ourselves and we alone have to deal with the outcome.

\\Sorry, this just made me chuckle.

I mean......how could you POSSIBLY know this as fact?

Did you mean to say "in my opinion....."?

It just fascinates me to no end how some people can make such empirical statements based on what appears to be their intimate knowledge of the morals, ethics, and modus operandi of each and every Alien civilization in the universe which currently or ever has existed since the beginning of time.

Wow.you're good.

Originally posted by GeneralChaos

Originally posted by shaneslaughta



Edit: ET wont help us....we cant even get along as one race. Ask all you want but help will not come. We did this to ourselves and we alone have to deal with the outcome.

\\Sorry, this just made me chuckle.

I mean......how could you POSSIBLY know this as fact?

Did you mean to say "in my opinion....."?

It just fascinates me to no end how some people can make such empirical statements based on what appears to be their intimate knowledge of the morals, ethics, and modus operandi of each and every Alien civilization in the universe which currently or ever has existed since the beginning of time.

Wow.you're good.

I agree at least about this part. James Gilliland (an alleged contactee) likes to say this a lot too, that "we did this to ourselves, they won't help...blah blah blah". Although my original post used the term "we", it only means as a species. There are many, many of us individually who never wanted nuclear power and should not be lumped in together with those who supported it or with those who were complacent. Many of us spoke out, complained, made our feelings known but were ignored. And some simply realize that no matter how loud we get we will never be heard.

And besides, if that belief is accurate, we would have never gone into Europe to intervene in WW2, we would never go into disaster-torn countries to render aid and we would have never done anything regarding slavery. We could have, by using that logic, simply said "they allowed this to happen now they have to fix it themselves."

I think it's a self-righteous statement that makes those who parrot it feel like they're good, responsible-thinking citizens and that they don't believe in asking for help when needed, that they like to accept responsibility to fix things that they feel broke because of something they did. Well, this is just a bit too serious an issue to have that type of thinking dominate the discussion. We need help--unworldly, superhuman, unbelievable technology -- whatever you want to call it. This is something we CANNOT fix on our own even though some humans created the problem.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


before "asking ET for help " please establish the existence of an ET with the capability to help

reply to post by wrabbit2000


what would you have them do? dumb things down like American media? sugar coat this very real disaster for your sensitive mind?

reply to post by duesprimusvictorimmortali


I'd have them be honest and not have a blowout Doom Porn Party to basically scare the living crap out of everyone reading it, who has NOT followed this closely from the day the tsunami hit.

They didn't give a realistic assessment of danger and what may ACTUALLY happen. They gave a porn piece on Dr. Suess's worst nightmare version of every possible thing there going as badly wrong as nature could ever see happening ..and THEN they blow the end result beyond what would REALLY happen.

Damn.. Fukushima is the worst nuclear disaster in history. 3 cores in meltdown and still unaccounted for. Radiation pouring into the ocean, daily and...lets not forget actual FUEL material was blown into open ocean water the week those units blew at the start. One is only 200 yards from open water ....and it blew more than 200 yards UP..let alone outward.

^^^ All that is accurate and without the screaming doom prophecy. RT needs to lay off the fear mongering. It's obscene and not something I'm used to seeing out of them. Certainly nowhere near the level of THAT article. Reckless...is how I term it.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I don't look for solutions out of "fear." I look for solutions because there is an obvious problem that is being presented.

Additionally, if we don't definitively know that they exist...then why would we ask for their assistance? Might we not get the same results by praying to "Santa Clause?"

Now personally, I know that extraterrestrials exist, but we cannot predicate your argument based upon something that the majority of people don't even care about. Additionally, I think you overestimate the extraterrestrial need, or want in caring about our continued existence. Would it not make more sense on their behalves just to let us go fully extinct so that a better place can be created by people, or beings that APPRECIATE this world?

Maybe you need to make your pleas to humanity who purposefully and WILLFULLY continue to screw this all up.

Originally posted by wrabbit2000
Anyone else get the impression that people in Moscow and the RT Newsroom are going to be nearly ecstatic and celebrating if this place goes up? For god's sake, is there ANY remote possibility of a bad outcome they didn't mention? Well, I think they left out the remote chance of a meteorite striking the crane operator at the critical moment the fuel pod is in the air and out of cooling fluid around it. That would be bad too. Shame on them for leaving out a doom possibility.

Every effort at Fuku since the first "1 year plan" was formed and filed by TEPCO has been about this point. The removal of those fuel rods. That's the least of what we ought to be worried about because short of God himself smiting the place with a tornado or bolt of Zeus level lightning, they'll get those out okay.

It's the slag heaps we used to call reactor cores that really worry me....and again, damn, talk about focusing on the ABSOLUTE worst "everything imaginable went wrong with a couple that weren't imagined" scenario. If people only went by that article and knowing the topic real well outside it? I'd almost say some people at RT need counseling. Their near gleeful obsession with mass body counts is sick.

You DO realize that there was a full out meltdown there...right? You ARE also aware that Fukushima has been hit by multiple earthquakes since the initial BLAST which created this whole fiasco...right?

Are you with me so far?

Maybe it is YOU who are attempting to downplay this scenario for your own piece of mind...I'm not sure. Nonetheless, there are and WILL BE serious consequences for this monstrosity which has occurred in Japan. Additionally, there are HUNDREDS of other reactors around the world which are starting to malfunction. I urge you to use critical thought when thinking about nuclear fallout and the slow decay of the raw materials. These things are currently being FLUSHED into the ocean at alarming rates.

So, let's maintain our sense of realism here.

reply to post by NewEye77


Okie Dokie... Lets start this over.

I've been following this since the day it happened. It's the first big story I threw myself into after getting off the truck and long haul driving. I threw myself so totally into this crisis, being BRAND NEW to the concept of researching horrible things, I lost myself in it and damn near went down in deep dark depression over it. I've since learned to keep perspective and detachment, no matter how unthinkably horrible a story is...but I hadn't then.

I'm not sure what your background is for having read through all the TEPCO material produced in the early months of this and MOST of it since. I'm not sure where you're at for having seen upwards of a thousand photographs of that facility, inside and out, month by month to casually track and watch their progress, all this time.

However, I'll assume you DO know all that and at the same time, you're not an educated nuclear professional, reactor specialist or other official background giving you more than average knowledge like I have here.

Wanna restart that whole thing without talking down to each other? I'll be happy to. I'm just not even playing at using that RT fear mongering trash as a base line to start from.

You are both kind of right. RT can sensationalize things for there numbers, but the risks and the consequents are very large. With moving the fuel there are many risks. The clading may be ruptured when moving and the assemblies could achieve critical mass if brought to close to each other and you have no controle rods to stop it if it does. They could also get stuck in the racks when they pull them out. But that's not to say it can not be done. It will most likely have problems along the way. Another large earthquake could topple the buildings. But that's something that has to be excepted. But that doesn't mean we have to freak out about it. Hysteria never really solves anything. If this situation does deeply concern you as it does me, than the best thing to do is stay level headed, educate your self on the subject and try and become part or the solution instead of the problem. Once you fully understand the situation try and come up with new ideas on how to clean this up. Also we could be thinking of ways to midegate the health effects of the contamination. Us humans can be very smart and resilient. We are most ingenuitive when faced with large problems. Maybe this instead of being the end to humanity this could be how we learn to deal with radioactive contamination and its health effect. So I guess its all about your out look on things. If you sit around thinking your going to die you probably will. If you try and solve the problem you might still die, but you could also come up with an solution.

I have a pet theory that relates to nuclear holocaust.

During the 1980´s, Cold War had one of it´s peaks and it was shown to both, american and russian leadership, a sight of a possible future where a nuclear armagedon (a nuclear war between NATO and Warsaw Pact) had happened.

That would explain why such a communist die-hard like Reagan converted ( in a very short time) into a nuclear disarmament supporter and got so close to M. Gorbatchov. That would also explain Gorbatchov´s actions, the fast collapse of USSR (1991) and of the entire communist regimes in eastern Europe (1989) on a single year.

That sight was provided by... future humans? ET´s? ID´s?

I think that by now the risk of a worldwide nuclear war is lower than of those days.
I believe that the higher risk is on the use of a small nuclear device/"dirty bomb" by a terrorist group over a major world city.

reply to post by Visiting ESB

. But, if we are going to die anyway, we should probably start thinking quickly about using ever option, including a sincere worldwide effort to request help from beyond our planet, dimension, universe, whatever

Alright OP you first; make your request. I got your back. WAAAAY back !

Nuclear apocalypse -- Isn't it about time we call on ET for help?

No.

But, for the moment, let's imagine that we did and they responded and the world was saved... now you have a new generation of gods you must serve.

Oh yes... the human race could not work itself through itself and as such... we're just not that worthy of respect. We're a second rate species that failed by requiring outside assistance in order to survive. In fact, we didn't even have the stones to stick to it until the end. We had to beg for help.

This is the same argument many use when approaching religion because it tells us that without god (or gods) we are doomed to failure. But even though we all know that we are an imperfect species, we have the drive and desire to rise above ourselves... like a child telling Mommy and Daddy he/she doesn't need their help to ride a bike without training wheels or to sit up alone all night for the first time.

No... we don't need ET's help. We need to grow the hell up and pull ourselves out of this mess ourselves... or die trying.

Originally posted by redoubt

Nuclear apocalypse -- Isn't it about time we call on ET for help?

No.

But, for the moment, let's imagine that we did and they responded and the world was saved... now you have a new generation of gods you must serve.

Oh yes... the human race could not work itself through itself and as such... we're just not that worthy of respect. We're a second rate species that failed by requiring outside assistance in order to survive. In fact, we didn't even have the stones to stick to it until the end. We had to beg for help.

This is the same argument many use when approaching religion because it tells us that without god (or gods) we are doomed to failure. But even though we all know that we are an imperfect species, we have the drive and desire to rise above ourselves... like a child telling Mommy and Daddy he/she doesn't need their help to ride a bike without training wheels or to sit up alone all night for the first time.

No... we don't need ET's help. We need to grow the hell up and pull ourselves out of this mess ourselves... or die trying.

The fact is we aren't capable of cleaning this up ourselves. Do you have any idea what is going on at the ONE nuclear power facility that melted down? Much less how to clean up others if/when an earthquake, tsunami, CME or whatever else nature can throw at us hits? No, we've helped our own when they've needed it: Europe in WW2, numerous disasters around the world, etc. What really is the difference?

The scientists and engineers who designed these monstrosities were just as arrogant as the Titanic's engineers: "oh, this will never sink." THAT is sheer stupidity -- they do not have a plan for fixing this problem because they were too arrogant and stupid to think that maybe they don't have all the answers and perhaps should account for worst case scenarios. They didn't do that and today, with the new plants being built, are still not thinking ahead. They continually come up with their assurances that don't hold a drop of water.

So, short answer to your statement that humanity can work itself out of this: no, we can't. We've proven that, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Well Seti or whatever it's called, the big satalites. Those are totally USELESS. I found out they're a complete waste of money in terms of contacting aliens, it's completely rediculous and ineffective. apparently the radiation in space wrecks the signal. Plus why would aliens be using radio frequenices.

I hear they like Reeses Pieces maybe you can use those to lure them in


I honestly think though that they would avoid us like the plague. Look at how we treat each other would you want to land on a planet as barbaric as this? They might think our extinction is a good thing.

Have you every thought that destroying our physical world isn't that big of a deal.

There I said it.

If we are just spiritual beings in a physical body then maybe the ET's see this and think "Well once they destroy the playground then they can come home."

It's like a bunch of kids fighting over something insignificant, maybe that is how they see us currently.

The ETs that are here at this time won't allow the humans living here to destroy this planet. Whether that's through nuclear accidents or all out nuclear war. It simply won't be allowed. This doesn't mean some future accidents won't occur or even a small nuclear exchange between nations will be prevented, at some future time.