BBC documentary The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy

Good morning/Good Afternoon all

So has anybody seen the BBC JFK documentarry - Beyond Conspiracy ?

It seems to neatly wrap everything up and tidy it all away. Have you seen it and what are your thoughts ?

Apologies if discussed previously.

The documentary with Dale Myer's 3D computer animation? Yeah, I've seen it before. I found myself cringing a few times though I'm afraid. I've posted about it here and there on ATS in the past but right now I'm quite short of time and I'm about to head out, as well as the fact that, to be completely honest, I can't quite find the energy to do a large write up sharing all of my thoughts on it as I'd have to also sit through the entire thing again to refresh myself - cringe. Instead however, I'll post what I think is really a very good review by assassination researcher Tony Austin. Good replies from other well known names in the research world too.

Review of The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy by Tony Austin

A snippet:

THE 3D COMPUTER SIMULATION

Soon we moved on to the real "meat" of the programme, Dale Myers's 3-D computer reconstruction of the assassination based on the Zapruder film. Dale Myers is well known for his anti-conspiracy view point and we only had his comments on the model to go by. The serious limitations of the model and the way that certain findings from this model tend to contradict the findings of the Warren Commission were not examined in the programme.

Mr Myers used the witness statements of John Connally and a sudden head movement that he can be seen making to show that the first shot was fired at around frame 160 of the Zapruder film. He did not tell us that this idea of an early shot was rejected by the Warren Commission but promoted by many conspiracy theorists.

The rejection by the Warren Commission was because they felt that it was unlikely that Oswald would have fired at the President at a time when his view would have been blocked by a large leafy tree. From the computer model it can be seen that the sixth floor sniper would have to rise up out of his comfortable position on his gun rest, point the rifle at a steep downward angle and fire at the President when a tree was blocking his line of sight.

It is also interesting to note that at this time the sixth floor sniper would be high above and only a short way to the rear of Kennedy and Connally and yet neither of them looked up. Myers tells us that Connally turned his head because he heard the sound of a gunshot over his right shoulder. None of the crowd visible in the Zapruder film can be seen looking up at the time Connally appears to be reacting to the first shot.

(Source)

Bob Harris does a fairly good job, imo, looking at the 3d animation film in particular too.



All in all, yeah, it does look good.. but looks can be deceiving.

In my opinion, the assassination at least in part was carried out by Kennedy's own limo driver. I have watched and watched the footage and just can't get past what to me looks like the driver turning and firing a pistol over his right shouder at the instant Kennedy's head explodes rearwardly. He'd clearly been shot at least once already, but the driver finished the job.

reply to post by Rising Against


Thankyou very much

It left me with the impression of being completely anti conspiracy and completely pro Warren Commission

And to all who have posted.

reply to post by Urantia1111


You might want to look at some other videos then, because that's just nonsense and has been debunked, plenty of times, even here at ATS.

Think about it. Not a single witness saw the driver do that. No one did, until 1 guy looked at 1 frame and said, hey, his greasy hair looks like a gun.

Originally posted by Rising Against
The documentary with Dale Myer's 3D computer animation? Yeah, I've seen it before. I found myself cringing a few times though I'm afraid. I've posted about it here and there on ATS in the past but right now I'm quite short of time and I'm about to head out, as well as the fact that, to be completely honest, I can't quite find the energy to do a large write up sharing all of my thoughts on it as I'd have to also sit through the entire thing again to refresh myself - cringe. Instead however, I'll post what I think is really a very good review by assassination researcher Tony Austin. Good replies from other well known names in the research world too.

Review of The Kennedy Assassination: Beyond Conspiracy by Tony Austin

A snippet:

THE 3D COMPUTER SIMULATION

Soon we moved on to the real "meat" of the programme, Dale Myers's 3-D computer reconstruction of the assassination based on the Zapruder film. Dale Myers is well known for his anti-conspiracy view point and we only had his comments on the model to go by. The serious limitations of the model and the way that certain findings from this model tend to contradict the findings of the Warren Commission were not examined in the programme.

Mr Myers used the witness statements of John Connally and a sudden head movement that he can be seen making to show that the first shot was fired at around frame 160 of the Zapruder film. He did not tell us that this idea of an early shot was rejected by the Warren Commission but promoted by many conspiracy theorists.

The rejection by the Warren Commission was because they felt that it was unlikely that Oswald would have fired at the President at a time when his view would have been blocked by a large leafy tree. From the computer model it can be seen that the sixth floor sniper would have to rise up out of his comfortable position on his gun rest, point the rifle at a steep downward angle and fire at the President when a tree was blocking his line of sight.

It is also interesting to note that at this time the sixth floor sniper would be high above and only a short way to the rear of Kennedy and Connally and yet neither of them looked up. Myers tells us that Connally turned his head because he heard the sound of a gunshot over his right shoulder. None of the crowd visible in the Zapruder film can be seen looking up at the time Connally appears to be reacting to the first shot.

(Source)

Bob Harris does a fairly good job, imo, looking at the 3d animation film in particular too.

All in all, yeah, it does look good.. but looks can be deceiving.

bob harris's video was nice.

reply to post by Urantia1111


Again I cite the work of Mr Harris..



The driver, William Greer, didn't shoot anybody.

Please don't tell me that you'd believe ANYTHING the BBC has to say.
2nd

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Urantia1111

 

Again I cite the work of Mr Harris..

The driver, William Greer, didn't shoot anybody.

This again?



RA, I think we will see this for years to come, regardless if there is proof contrary to it. Im just glad there are those who know what the hell is going on. I also think in 50 years we will see more evidence that hasn't come out. Once the whole conspiracy angle and those who might have been part of it, are long dead.

I saw the documentary you mentioned.

I was absolutely appalled by it. It was the single worst piece of journalism by a supposed professional I have ever seen produced by the BBC. It wasn't so much an examination of the assassination it was a complete and utter sop to the Warren Commission Report. There was no serious examination of the myriad of issues, conspiracies, facts which have emerged in the intervening period, and so on.

They even bypassed the findings of the HSCA!

Even the most rabid and insane theories, maybe Elvis did it and got away in a UFO driven by the Illuminati, have more credence than this excrescence put out by the BBC. Plus unlike most of you reading this I had to pay them for the privilege of making this programme through my compulsory license fee!

reply to post by Rob37n


I know man I even for a moment thought its the BBC basically a government body and trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Then I thought whats there motive and I came up with the "special relationship".

I quickly pushed that thought aside as crazy though.

reply to post by Rob37n


Agreed, a bundle of linear crap. But they are not alone in pushing, 'In the main true, just differences in the detail from the official version' scenario. NG does it with their 9/11 compilations. It's obvious what the message is coming from big government and that's, believe it or not, because there is nothing you can do about it, we are too big we can do anything. The TV crowd oblige cringingly.

How often do you hear the phrase, "Sweeping changes" from big government in crocodile tears mode. They probably said it back in 1963, they said it again after 9/11, they said it again after the banks stole our money, they are saying it now after Snowdens revelations on the NSA/NCTC activities, (not that it was a surprise, just the scale and the intimacy) Dallas was like a convention of 'who knows who' in the intelligence world, so was 9/11. NSA/NCTC was not a convention, just that everybody involved knew what was going on, and that's a fair number of people who want to screw you one way or the other. Sadly, Kennedy had no Snowden.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Indeed just been watching The Guilty Men - LBJ Conspiracy Theory, what a mind blower that is!!

If true LBJ was a cold blooded criminal and what about that thumbprint found at the schoolbook depository. I never heard this mentioned previously.

A thoughtful comment from smurfy thankyou

Originally posted by macpdm
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

Indeed just been watching The Guilty Men - LBJ Conspiracy Theory, what a mind blower that is!!

If true LBJ was a cold blooded criminal and what about that thumbprint found at the schoolbook depository. I never heard this mentioned previously.

A thoughtful comment from smurfy thankyou

edit on 14/8/13 by macpdm because: (no reason given)

Well, if you can believe all the bibliography on the events surrounding Dallas at the time leading up to JFK's murder, then it was not just a murder, but a conspiracy.

George de Mohrenschildt, a key figure knew,
Lee Harvey Oswald.
G.H.W. Bush.
Abraham Zapruder.
L.B.J.
Jacqueline Bouvier/ Mrs Kennedy.
Malcolm Wallace.
Haroldson Hunt, plus more..... Some of those/most of those mentioned above also knew one another.
There is also the enigma of Oswald's politics, he was not quite the Facist was he?
Who'd thought he was someone to go after J.F.K. it makes no sense. However, all these years later, the Facists ideals are alive and well in the US in an Orwellian fashion, and the UK is getting there with difficulty.

reply to post by macpdm


Macpdm, have you ever seen 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' series? It's a time-consuming effort, but it does present some good stuff. Naturally skepticism is good and not all of it should be accepted, but it's a fantastic series. If you're interested in anyway, here you go. It's also a UK based documentary series as well btw.

Episode 1: The Coup D'Etat

Episode 2: The Forces Of Darkness

Episode 3: The Cover-Up

Episode 4: The Patsy

Episode 5: The Witnesses

Episode 6: The Truth Shall Set You Free

Episode 7: The Smoking Guns

Episode 8: The Love Affair

Episode 9: The Guilty Men

reply to post by Rising Against


Thankyou RA thats my weekend viewing sorted

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by macpdm
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

Indeed just been watching The Guilty Men - LBJ Conspiracy Theory, what a mind blower that is!!

If true LBJ was a cold blooded criminal and what about that thumbprint found at the schoolbook depository. I never heard this mentioned previously.

A thoughtful comment from smurfy thankyou

edit on 14/8/13 by macpdm because: (no reason given)

Well, if you can believe all the bibliography on the events surrounding Dallas at the time leading up to JFK's murder, then it was not just a murder, but a conspiracy.

George de Mohrenschildt, a key figure knew,
Lee Harvey Oswald.
G.H.W. Bush.
Abraham Zapruder.
L.B.J.
Jacqueline Bouvier/ Mrs Kennedy.
Malcolm Wallace.
Haroldson Hunt, plus more..... Some of those/most of those mentioned above also knew one another.
There is also the enigma of Oswald's politics, he was not quite the Facist was he?
Who'd thought he was someone to go after J.F.K. it makes no sense. However, all these years later, the Facists ideals are alive and well in the US in an Orwellian fashion, and the UK is getting there with difficulty.

edit on 14-8-2013 by smurfy because: Text.

I definitely believe there was a conspiracy but as to who is responsible im not certain. Having said that Im thinking LBJ was involved whether directly or indirectly.

Basically any documentary, or work of any kind, before the ARRB- Assassination records review board 1992-1995 is somewhat obsolete. I remember this one and it's just like the 'target car' documentary in that they appear to be inquisitive but really just a rehashing of the Warren Commission and the HSCA.

The ARRB was the last government investigation of any kind so it's final report is what it is. It created many more questions and controversy than it ever solved. All it really did was determine that it is a solid fact that the medical evidence in the JFK assassination is too confused and misleading to ever find any reverent conclusions-and it's a waste of time to try to do so again.

Other than the fact that JFK's body was altered before the official autopsy and it arrived in Washington in a different casket than it was placed in in Dallas is really the only thing they solved.

However, it did have it's moments. A shouting match between autopsy surgeon Dr. Humes and Doug Horne and director Jeffery Gunn that almost ending in a fist fight was quite a scene.

Originally posted by spooky24
Other than the fact that JFK's body was altered before the official autopsy and it arrived in Washington in a different casket than it was placed in in Dallas is really the only thing they solved.

However, it did have it's moments. A shouting match between autopsy surgeon Dr. Humes and Doug Horne and director Jeffery Gunn that almost ending in a fist fight was quite a scene.

The body should never have left Dallas
That was a shouting match too.

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by spooky24
Other than the fact that JFK's body was altered before the official autopsy and it arrived in Washington in a different casket than it was placed in in Dallas is really the only thing they solved.

However, it did have it's moments. A shouting match between autopsy surgeon Dr. Humes and Doug Horne and director Jeffery Gunn that almost ending in a fist fight was quite a scene.

The body should never have left Dallas
That was a shouting match too.

Yes I believe under Texas state law it should never have been moved.