"My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

reply to post by EnochWasRight


"What was Christ bound to by Mary? Mary was from the house of David was conceived by the Holy Spirit."

Are you saying that Mary was concived by the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

There seems to be an underlying theme in all the gospels. That is, Jesus wasn't exactly thrilled about being the messiah. It seems he felt like he was a slave to his destiny, as we all do at some time or another.

The way I see it (and this is just pure conjecture, but it makes sense to me), the moment that he cried out "Why have you forsaken me?" would've been the moment he learned that even after all his suffering, he would have to suffer more. Three days in "hell," perhaps. Or maybe learning that he would have to reply his life over and over throughout eternity. Maybe he had just learned that the work as Jesus was done, and that he had to incarnate as a new soul to complete the messianic journey. Those are just ideas. The only way you can know for sure is to actually talk to Jesus.

Jesus did not go to hell he went to the non burning side, Abraham’s bosom and preached to the spirits that were there.
1st Peter
3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
These were the pre flood spirits.

reply to post by guitarplayer


That passage you shared, while descriptive and suitably moving, did not explicitly describe what Christ did after he died on the cross. Thank you though.

I've never been one who believed that Christ went to hell after he died. I was only providing examples of what could've sparked his cry. The only truth about the situation is that we don't know. We can speculate until the end of the earth, but until Christ Himself gives an explanation, it's just speculation.

I think this is a good article for the inner understandings, to start:

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

We can discover the esoteric Jesus and true meaning behind the crucifixion through a mysterious statement that Christ he made at the 9th hour. I quote from Matthew 27:46:

“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

....


“Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the Ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom…”

The veil is symbolic of the separation between the lower and the higher self. The temple in the verse above has nothing to do with a building. It’s the temple of the individual body. This is where the renting of the veil takes place. I have already discussed how Jesus’ death represents attaining the spiritual perfection of his personality by dropping away the lower self to achieve a union with his higher self. The ripping of the veil symbolizes this union.

reply to post by Akragon

Fully human, fully divine, spirit filled without measure. It's not incongruent, that's the wonderful thing, and oh what it says about us standing next to the Godhead with his intercessory Grace bridging the divide.

Your understanding is narrow and biased. You haven't looked deeply enough, imho.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Fully human, fully divine, spirit filled without measure. It's not incongruent, that's the wonderful thing, and oh what it says about us standing next to the Godhead with his intercessory Grace bridging the divide.

Your understanding is narrow and biased. You haven't looked deeply enough, imho.

Unfortunately the feeling is mutual my friend...

And Grace isn't a word HE ever used... that's Paul floating into your words

and what exactly is my "bias"... my own thoughts?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

and oh what it says about us standing next to the Godhead with his intercessory Grace bridging the divide.

this idea of intercessors between God and us is very old one.
The same is seen in the practice of confessions by the church.

Flowery language does not make some narrative true

what Jesus pbuh taught is so different and yet people use his name to peddle their own made up narrative and paul was the pioneer of this trick.

reply to post by Akragon

. . . Grace isn't a word HE ever used... that's Paul . . .

Jesus said his mission was to the the Israelites, so he did not get into a discussion, that is recorded, about having gentiles entering into the kingdom.
"Grace" was used by Paul to describe the kingdom being opened to gentiles and women.

reply to post by logical7

what Jesus pbuh taught is so different and yet people use his name to peddle their own made up narrative and paul was the pioneer of this trick.

Your source for what Jesus said seems to not be the New Testament.

John 14:2-3
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (2011 NIV)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

 

what Jesus pbuh taught is so different and yet people use his name to peddle their own made up narrative and paul was the pioneer of this trick.

Your source for what Jesus said seems to not be the New Testament.

John 14:2-3
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (2011 NIV)

edit on 14-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Well, my source is the NT and i was talking about his teachings.

Btw, whats your point in quoting the above verse? Its partly metaphorical.
Jesus pbuh is going away to heaven and would return later.
I don't think he is going to literally prepare rooms for his followers.
Also who are his real followers is a big question..
People who want to dump their sins on him and want him to die for it or people who obey and follow his teachings.

reply to post by logical7

Btw, whats your point in quoting the above verse? Its partly metaphorical.

I just looked at my post and realized that I didn't make the point, and I probably figured it would be obvious by looking at the preceding posts.
I was quoting an example of Jesus acting as intermediary between God and Man.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

 

Btw, whats your point in quoting the above verse? Its partly metaphorical.

I just looked at my post and realized that I didn't make the point, and I probably figured it would be obvious by looking at the preceding posts.
I was quoting an example of Jesus acting as intermediary between God and Man.

edit on 14-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

how literally you take that verse? Will Jesus pbuh come again and ascend back with all true christians and we would see a mass ascension?!!
How does that verse put him as an intermediary? Too much to say the ONLY one.
Each prophet had his followers and they would get heaven if they believed his message and followed his teachings.
How a teacher is seen as an intermediary?
Is a mere enrollment in his class enough to pass?
Its true for followers of any, be it Moses, Jesus or Muhammad peace be upon them.

I find the self satisfying idea of being privileged with God just because one belongs to a certain group as disgusting.

reply to post by logical7

how literally you take that verse?

It is something that I have been thinking about (planning to make a thread on it), so why it quickly came to mind for an example to cite.
The concept I take literally, that Jesus is going ahead of us to blaze the trail for us to follow, which of course was why Jesus came to start with, not to provide blood for some heavenly temple to somehow "pay" for sins.
If Jesus says, "many houses", he could mean: me as a Christian and you as a Muslim, for all I know.

Will Jesus pbuh come again and ascend back with all true christians and we would see a mass ascension?!!

Which is why I wanted to do a thread on it, because I don't think that it is about that sort of thing at all but was about a sort of spiritual communion between man and God.

How does that verse put him as an intermediary? Too much to say the ONLY one.

Jesus said that it was necessary for him to go away, and then said that where he was going was somewhere that they could not go. That puts him in the position of intermediary, that he was doing something that fixes the problem of the disconnect between God and man by creating that direct connection that we could not do ourselves, but he could do with his own person, then bring all those things from God to us.

How a teacher is seen as an intermediary?

Jesus is more than a teacher but has a degree of righteousness beyond any other man, and so can serve as a representative of us to God in order to procure for us blessing that are beyond what we deserve ourselves.

reply to post by jmdewey60

If Jesus says, "many houses", he could mean: me as a Christian and you as a Muslim, for all I know.

I thought the same. Many houses/rooms point at many groups. I think it may mean the different prophets from Adam pbuh till Muhammad pbuh and the people who followed them during their time.
The whole idea of different abrahamic religions come from the fact that people don't believe the next prophet when he comes with the same message as they get attached to "their" religion and ways.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Jesus said that it was necessary for him to go away, and then said that where he was going was somewhere that they could not go. That puts him in the position of intermediary, that he was doing something that fixes the problem of the disconnect between God and man by creating that direct connection that we could not do ourselves, but he could do with his own person, then bring all those things from God to us.

what you interpret is based on what you already believe and that belief was propogated not by Jesus pbuh but Paul.
He was going where others couldn't as he has a part left to play. You are assuming this as an evidence to prove your intermediary theory.

There is no disconnect between God and man. A person just has to repent and get connected back. God is extremely Forgiving and Merciful.

reply to post by logical7

A person just has to repent and get connected back. God is extremely Forgiving and Merciful.

Repentance is a little more involved that just saying, "I repent".
"Being in touch" is more involved than reciting written out prayers.
We need to be righteous in a way that is not natural to us in order to have true communion with God.
Jesus has a spirit of righteousness that comes from God that he can give to us to attain a degree of righteousness beyond what we can get to on our own.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

 

A person just has to repent and get connected back. God is extremely Forgiving and Merciful.

Repentance is a little more involved that just saying, "I repent".
"Being in touch" is more involved than reciting written out prayers.
We need to be righteous in a way that is not natural to us in order to have true communion with God.
Jesus has a spirit of righteousness that comes from God that he can give to us to attain a degree of righteousness beyond what we can get to on our own.

God can easily know sincere repentance and forgive. Doesn't take a ritual,prayer or an intermediary.
You are suggesting that we cannot naturally get close to God and we have to believe in a senseless word gymnastics propogated by people with self-interest to achieve it?

reply to post by logical7

Nope, just talking about a spiritual experience to make repentance effective towards righteousness rather than continual "repentance" which is worthless if it is only lip service without a life change.
Religion should be for making life better for others. If it only is for yourself, then it fails.

reply to post by jmdewey60

rather than continual "repentance" which is worthless if it is only lip service without a life change.

why do you assume that repentance is just lip service?
Ofcourse just lip service is useless be it repentance or saying the christian creed.

Repentance means to realise a sin as sin, ask for forgiveness and sincerely try to avoid it later. It wouldnt be a problem if a person still fails and repents again till its sincere.

I don't see a need for an intermediary. The only need is a teacher who can clearly seperate wrong and right and make us aware at least of big sins and lead us by example.