The Spaceships of Ezekiel (Revisited)

I have a huge problem with this, which I will attempt to explain. I see absolutely no evidence of anything "technical" in Ezekiel's descriptions. Being somewhat interested in biblical theology, I have had some experience interpreting claims from different biblical eras, with the historical, geographical, and cultural settings in mind.

First I should point out that there have been claims lodged against Ezekiel, stating he was psychotic or "crazy." But then again, there have been many psychiatrists who have refused to accept this idea, claiming the evidence does not support it. Like many other biblical things, it is virtually impossible to be certain about whether Ezekiel truly was a prophet called by God, or was a delusional religious fanatic. Those who follow the teachings of Judaism or Christianity will likely accept the former, while atheists will continue to believe the latter. Disputing this point will get us absolutely nowhere.

It is very difficult to attempt to interpret what was written without doing so from a biblical point of view. Ezekiel himself claims to know exactly what he saw, Ezekiel 10:20 states that these creatures were Cherubim, or a certain distinction of angels. It does not take much biblical knowledge to understand and realize that the idea of God sitting between or above these cherubim as having some connection with the Mercy Seat that was revealed to Moses. Ezekiel was raised in even more of a religious context than his fellow Jews, considering his family had been priests for generations, and this was what he studied to be and subsequently became.

Early theologians actually claimed that the significance of the number 4 related to some sort of prophesy regarding the core 4 gospels of the New Testament, including Jerome in the 5th century, and Irenaeus in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. But this is only one "biblical" interpretation that has been offered.

To save time in this post I will refrain from presenting all of these interpretations, as I just realized it would be pointless. Instead I will simply state that the consensus regarding Ezekiel's vision is that what he saw truly were "creatures," and not any form of ship or craft.

And the artwork that was rendered does not, in my opinion, follow the description that we are given from Ezekiel himself. Clearly the human faces, as well as the claim that these were living creatures, dismisses the idea of this being some sort of craft. It is quite clear that what he saw and described were angels. And if, as some will undoubtedly claim, he simply made up this vision in his mind, he still would have meant that these beings were angels.

One would do much better to argue that what he saw were aliens without a craft, as opposed to the entire vision consisting of a ship of some sort.

Swirling, shifting mandalas are normally seen by people hallucinating.


www.tripzine.com...

reply to post by Char-Lee


That's a description of an abduction if I've ever heard one. IMO it describes Enoch being lifted (levitated) into a craft and brought to a mother ship, where he saw lots of lights surrounding some kind of alien leader.

One thing that drives me crazy is when people illustrate accounts like this and take the word "fire" literally. You have to remember that the only source of light they ever knew was fire, and therefore any artificial source of light will by default be described as "fire" or "brilliance" or something similar.

This subject has facinated me since I read the Von Daniken books in the 70's. I thought the OP did a brilliant job of illustrating what Ezekiel saw, but I always have a problem believing that advanced races used rotor blades or jet engines as a propulsion system, when you consider that they got here with interplanetary space flight technology.

reply to post by jeep3r

Those are some pretty great renderings. It looks like an incredibly viable short range craft.
Certainly one of the best "This was in the Bible" threads that I've come across for a long time
S&F

reply to post by jeep3r


dear Jeep
..this is so Contextual Nonsense..
- whý would a Deity....who makes the mindboggling claim, to have made Entire Creation.... need 'spaceships' ?

..not even yóu ignite your stove anymore, by rubbing two pieces of wood together to get a flame..?

please see the Atom Shells
and its huge Fractal - the gyroscopic cosmos

'wheels within wheels'

[creative] consciousness within consciousness

kind regards,

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
Nice renderings, the Sumerians refered to certain flying birds/demons/weapons in terms of 'Flood-Storm' , which is interesting in the context of the Hebrew description you quoted;

"I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north
An immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light.
The center of the fire looked like glowing metal."


Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day,
so was the radiance around him.


I made the point here that if such phenomena had been seen they could only have been compared to aspects of storm.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 10-8-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

there is however a reported correlation between ufos and storms even today



very well presented thread. it seems uve done ur research.

Lol. Interesting and good effort.
But better to read the Old Testament only
as a history or story book

Originally posted by Arken
reply to post by jeep3r

 

Amazing images!

Something like This is what Ezekiel has really seen.

S&f.

Thanks, Arken!

If what Ezekiel and others describe in some parts of the bible were indeed similar to what's depicted in the OP, it would - of course - also mean that 'somebody else' (apart from us) was around here some 2.600 years ago.

Provided that we're talking about a species capable of - at least - interplanetary spaceflight, they probably wouldn't have just been interested in Earth but in other planets & moons of our solar system as well ... I'm still trying to get my head around 'why' there are almost no direct depictions of such events by other sources while also trying to figure out the strange context of Ezekiel's vision (eg. mention of a rebellion).

I do have some thoughts on that but I guess that would be something for a new thread!

Originally posted by Harte

 

Ezekiel describes the Throne of God here, using some of the standard descriptive terms associated with said Throne from other books of the Bible (...) See more at: ancientaliensdebunked.com...

Fairly straightforward then. Ezekiel is claiming to have had a visitation from God, which is what Ezekiel says in the first place, isn't it?

Hello Harte!

I've seen that part of Ancient Aliens Debunked which goes into much detail while disrupting the spacecraft-interpretation of Ezekiel's account. Personally, I'm not convinced of the symbolic 'throne theory' they suggest instead ...

But I guess there will always be those who favor the metaphorical interpretation of the bible, on the one hand, and those who think about a more literal interpretation, on the other. I don't think we'll ever be able to unite these two opposing groups. And I'm fully aware that I'm not going to convince historians, like yourself, or the majority of theologists out there by creating threads like this.

If I have the choice between two or more interpretations of this event, I'm certainly more in favor of the more modern & technology related version of Ezekiel's vision ... simply because it seems to make more sense!

Originally posted by wmd_2008

 

Hi jeep3r s&f for the effort like the renders he is supposed to describe it as creature(s) not a machine

Also regarding this.

Originally posted by jeep3r
Personally, I think Ezekiel's account contains so much technical information that it would be very difficult to explain it all away as hallucinations due to drugs or an overly active imagination.

Really I think many a good author would argue that point and junkie for that matter

Thanks, wmd ... as far as the 'creatures' are concerned, I could well imagine this being a kind of linguistic substitute for what he described and couldn't understand.

Just throwing out my opinion here (and perhaps stating the obvious, too): back in those days, how would 'I' describe a kind of technology that is not just passively 'there', but blinking, flashing, moving (actively & self-propelled) and literally breathing while causing new sensations of sound & vibration, producing quakes, smoke etc? Undoubtedly, I would probably conclude that this technology was alive, especially when taking into account my lack of better words to describe what I'm seeing ...

And with regards to Ezekiel, potentially having been intoxicated: if this were the case, how could he describe something that makes such perfect sense in technological terms and complies with what what we, today, would expect from a machine capable of in-atmoshpere flight and probably spaceflight, too?

Amazing images there, really interesting.

There is something about all religions which I believe are extra-terrestrial in nature. I find its much more believable than what mainstream science and religion comes up with as explanations for some inconsistancies we find on Earth.

reply to post by jeep3r


great artwork.

this is all the proof I need to know he witnessed an incoming space vehicle;

"I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north
An immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light.
The center of the fire looked like glowing metal."

- Ezekiel 1:4

I can picture this as if it were a Apollo capsule upon re-entry, why else would it be glowing red hot metal?

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
the consensus regarding Ezekiel's vision

Who's consensus do you speak of? The only ones who believe that this was a "creature" are the religious folk who will hear nothing of ships or machines or any kind of technology used by the gods and angels in biblical times.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
what he saw truly were "creatures," and not any form of ship or craft.

I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure there are no creatures that exist or have existed, that grow and use wheels anytime in their existence. Or wheels within wheels for that matter.


You also have to understand that these people didn't have the vocabulary to describe what they were seeing. A spacecraft (or machine) with any kind of moving parts would be a living "creature" to primitive, non-technological people. They described what they saw the best they could with the words they had.

Ezekiel described a craft with mechanical moving parts, and some kind of propulsion.

Originally posted by Lone12
- whý would a Deity....who makes the mindboggling claim, to have made Entire Creation.... need 'spaceships'?

That is an amazingly perfect question. Yet the gods, angels, and Jesus himself, flew around in physical craft such as chariots, pillars, clouds, stoves, platforms, vessels, rolls, sky thrones..... and many more.

I'll leave you with a link to read more about all the different vehicles of the bible:

www.bibleufo.com...

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Do you really think a race that is so advanced they overcame interstellar travel that they would uses machines that beat the air for flight?

We have no idea what kind of technology an alien civilization utilizes. We can't even fathom the technology they would use for interstellar travel. Yes, there could be an advanced civilization that has amazing interstellar capabilities, but still uses rockets and rotors for in-atmosphere flight.

Hence why there are so many references to "fiery chariots" and how other craft in the bible emanated "smoke and fire" while making the ground "quake". Those biblical descriptions sound exactly like some sort of rocket-powered technology.

You can have advanced space-folding or warp-type engines for interstellar travel on your ship, but maybe the most efficient way for in-atmosphere flight will be better versions of rockets, jets, and rotors?

But you can't sit there and claim that other civilizations won't use that type of "primitive" technology until they actually come down here and show us. Because everything else is just pure speculation until then.

Yes I can. IT is very simple you are not thinking it through but like all zealots you are blinding yourself to make your idea work.

You are not going to haul fuel for a rocket (do you know how rockets work?) all the way across the galaxy for one thing. For another certain inventions lead to others. To overcome the unimaginable vast expanses of space you will have been many years beyond the rotor and propeller. They would at least have overcome magnetism and utilized it. Gravity would also have to have been overcome for tech to have gone as far as inner stellar drive.

You cannot have it all. Either ET has fiery smoking craft now and not silent and move in any direction like UFO observers have reported. So what you are saying is that they overcame interstellar drive a few thousand years ago but were still working with primitive tech, then since then they got better at traveling through the atmosphere?

Use common sense and don't be a zealot.

Maybe it was us (coming back in time) to stop a complete 'balls up' we are about to make or have made already..?

reply to post by LoneGunMan


We have the technology to send men to other planets yet most of our daily travelling is done using a combustion engine and wheels, both of which are the same technology derived from something our ancient ancestors harnessed and used.

Sometimes the most simple ways are the best, why would you overcomplicate things?

And secondly, we are talking about hypothetical aliens from other planets - its not exactly provable in either case.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
You cannot have it all. Either ET has fiery smoking craft now and not silent and move in any direction like UFO observers have reported. So what you are saying is that they overcame interstellar drive a few thousand years ago but were still working with primitive tech, then since then they got better at traveling through the atmosphere?

Use common sense and don't be a zealot.

There's also the possibility that the primitive technology of rotorblades and thrusters were just a (purposeful?) display, and not actually involved in the operation of the craft. This is taking the EDI hypothesis, and it seems consistent with the strangeness of such objects.

Originally posted by GuardianX
Maybe it was us (coming back in time) to stop a complete 'balls up' we are about to make or have made already..?

Actually, this is an idea for a novel I've had for years but have never got around to it. The basic story was that an experiment involving the first light-speed vessel goes wrong and sucks in a load of spectating spacecraft to another planet, except at light-speed time reverses. So they end up thousands of years in the past. They live on another planet with a lower gravity for a few thousand years which makes them taller, then then fix the vessel and go back to earth and end up in pre-history before humanity is about - and they then realise that mankind creates itself through this cyclical timeline.

So they create humans by splicing DNA and set to making these new humans mine gold for use in repairing parts of the FTL ship so that they can go somewhere else and leave mankind to it to complete the cycle. There is a schism in the leadership throughout and that is what causes mankind to realise what is going on and that is how they know good and evil (or that they are being used as slave labour.)

I would have loved to have wrote it, but the time aspect makes it extremely difficult to work with.

First off, great job on the renderings. Seeing them in such detail really puts this sighting into perspective for me.

Secondly, that craft really doesn't look all that "advanced." I'm kind of thinking the U.S. military contractors could build something like that. It's basically rockets and propellers. That has me thinking that maybe, just maybe, these beings are not quite as technologically advanced as we give them credit for being. I've actually thought this for some time. They could have quite a bit of knowledge and still not be as technologically advanced as we would think visitors from the other side of the universe would be. Some intelligence coming from the other side of the galaxy is still using propeller blades and rocket boosters? Hmmmmm. . . maybe we are not quite as un-advanced as we think?