Coupons - 50$ off Abortions on Sundays offered at Orlando Womens Center

reply to post by FlyersFan


The baby is alive?

It feels pain?

Better pop it out so you can cut off a piece of its penis.

Cause it feels pain and such and you have such sympathies for that.

Or do we only protect babies from feeling pain when their entire life support system is leeching off of its mother's uterus?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by LightOrange
Please don't accept this post as an invitation for you to proliferate the fallacy that fleshy growth on the uterin wall=human being because Jesus.

This isn't 'fleshy growth' ... and no one brought up Jesus except you. We have brought up the fact that this baby is alive and can feel pain. That's science, not religion.

Definitely not a human being, sorry.

Human, but not a human being.

That's science.

reply to post by LightOrange

I have no idea what you are talking about.

reply to post by LightOrange

:shk: The human child feels pain. What part of that can't you understand?
The human child feels pain. The human child sucks his or her thumb.
The human child plays with his or her toes. The human child plays with the cord.
The human child sleeps and wakes and yawns.

The human child is alive. The human child feels pain.
The human child is NOT a 'lump of flesh'. :shk:

reply to post by djr33222


reply to post by FlyersFan


I refer you to Roe V Wade for the delineation between abortion and "late term" abortion.

The Court later rejected Roe's trimester framework, while affirming Roe's central holding that a person has a right to abortion until viability.[1] The Roe decision defined "viable" as being "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid", adding that viability "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks.

A woman has the right to an abortion for any or no good reason, in your book, up until viability. After that, states dictate regulations regarding late term abortions.

The Court asserted that the government had two competing interests – protecting the mother's health and protecting the "potentiality of human life". Following its earlier logic, the Court stated that during the first trimester, when the procedure is more safe than childbirth, the decision to abort must be left to the mother and her physician.

The State has the right to intervene prior to fetal viability only to protect the health of the mother, and may regulate the procedure after viability so long as there is always an exception for preserving maternal health. The Court additionally added that the primary right being preserved in the Roe decision was that of the physician's right to practice medicine freely absent a compelling state interest – not women's rights in general. The Court explicitly rejected a fetal "right to life" argument.

en.wikipedia.org...

Guttmacher Organization - State Policies on Late Term Abortions

Although the vast majority of states restrict later-term abortions, many of these restrictions have been struck
down. Most often, courts have voided the limitations because they do not contain a health exception; contain an
unacceptably narrow health exception; or do not permit a physician to determine viability in each individual case,
but rather rely on a rigid construct based on specific weeks of gestation or trimester.

Late Term Abortions in the USA per year

After 20 weeks gestation [1]: 10,700
After 24 weeks gestation: About 5,000

July 2013 Report - 11,000 late term abortions per year in the USA

Some 11,000 American children are aborted every year after the 20th week of pregnancy, according to figures contained in a new Congressional report on the cost of banning such procedures.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is required by law to perform a cost estimate for every bill pending in Washington, so legislators will know the economic impact an act will have on society and government.

Is Late Term Abortion Ever Necessary

The Tiller murder and the legislative and judicial hearings on partial-birth abortion have focused public attention on late-term abortion in the U.S. Late-term abortion is not an exact medical term, but it has been used to refer to abortions in the third trimester (28-39 weeks) or even second trimester abortions (13-27 weeks). According to less-than-perfect statistics collected by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the Guttmacher Institute,2 12% of U.S. abortions, approximately 144,000 procedures a year, are performed after the first trimester, that is, more than 12 weeks elapsed time after the woman’s last menstrual period. About 15,600 abortions, 1.3% of the 1.2 million abortions in 2005, occur after the 20th week.

Late Term Abortions More Widespread Than the Media Reports

The Alan Guttmacher Institute (the research arm of Planned Parenthood) reports that abortions of pregnancies at 21 weeks or later comprise about 1.1 percent of the nation’s abortions, which that same institute also indicates are in the area of 1.21 million. That means over 13,000 babies a year are killed at 21 weeks or beyond. Click here for the Guttmacher statistics.

According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC) statistics, late-term abortions (i.e., those of babies 21 weeks or older) are done in many states, which means that there are more than two or three abortionists who do them. A June 1st L.A. Times story refers to the CDC statistics, which show that in 2005, 8,482 abortions were performed on babies 21 weeks or older, but only 459 of them were done in Kansas. Note that the CDC statistics are lower than the Guttmacher statistics, because California (in which about a quarter of the nation’s abortions occur), along with a few other states, do not report their abortion statistics to the CDC.

That surprised me. California, where 1/8 of US citizens live as well as millions of illegal aliens, doesn't report it's abortion statistics to the CDC. So the CDC numbers are extremely low.

New York Post - The Truth About Late Term Abortion
Late Term Abortion and Infanticide Happen a Whole Lot more than pro-choicers Want to Admit.

Late Term Abortion Provider Testifies - 20% for genetic reasons and 80% for ELECTIVE reasons

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by LightOrange
Please don't accept this post as an invitation for you to proliferate the fallacy that fleshy growth on the uterin wall=human being because Jesus.

This isn't 'fleshy growth' ... and no one brought up Jesus except you. We have brought up the fact that this baby is alive and can feel pain. That's science, not religion.

Definitely not a human being, sorry.

Human, but not a human being.

That's science.

edit on 10-8-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

You make no sense.

"Human, but not a human being."

What????

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by muse7
And yet at the end of the day...its their bodies their decision

And yet at the end of the day ... it's NOT their body that they are killing.
It's a human being who has a beating heart, who sucks their thumb, who sleeps,
who wakes, who plays with their toes and the cord, and WHO FEELS PAIN.
Late term aborted babies die in AGONY. And the vast majority of these babies
die horridly simply because the mother says ...'naaaah, I change my mind'.
MOST of the late term abortions are not necessary to help the mothers health.

Well I'm sorry Miss Morality, but no matter how many hissy fits you throw you won't be able to stop a woman from aborting a child that she does not want to give birth to.

I guess you'd rather these babies die an even more horrendous death with coat hangers? and home style abortions eh?

Good let it be, if someone is dumb and desperate enough to respond to this, or need an abortion, then let them make their choice. Doesn't effect you any.

Originally posted by muse7
Well I'm sorry Miss Morality, but no matter how many hissy fits you throw

Grow up. I'm posting facts. Learn to handle the fact that these babies FEEL PAIN ... that they play and open their eyes and hiccup ... they are ALIVE.

I guess you'd rather these babies die an even more horrendous death with coat hangers? and home style abortions eh?

People who wait to commit late term abortions don't care about the pain they are inflicting on innocent children. Therefore, I don't care about the pain they'd inflict upon themselves if they decided to shove a coat hanger up themselves. If they are that stupid then they deserve the darwin award.

Targeting poor women with these coupons

So you think poor women should have children they can't afford? Who will most likely be support by our tax dollars, and who will likely have an unhappy life and create more welfare babies when they grow up?

Republicans want lots of poor people because people who can't afford to get educated are easily swayed by right-wing propaganda.

Originally posted by CB328

Targeting poor women with these coupons

So you think poor women should have children they can't afford?

1 - Did you read the thread? The Womens Center is a pit. It's had legal issues. The doctor has had legal charges brought up against him. I showed how the center has lied to it's patients. The center didn't send coupons to people except those who were poor and who probably wouldn't turn the center in to the authorities if something went wrong.

2 - If people can't afford children, then they shouldn't be out humping. They should control themselves and use birth control which is widely available at little to no cost. It's very simple ... can't afford kids? Then act like a human instead of a mindless animal and don't make them.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No, you're not posting facts. You're posting emotional based hyperbole that isn't based on science.

Fetal Pain Is A Lie: How Phony Science Took Over The Abortion Debate

“We know a lot about embryology [in the field]. The way that a fetus grows and develops hasn’t changed and never will,” Dr. Anne Davis, a second-trimester abortion provider, associate professor of clinical obstetrics and gynecology at Columbia University Medical Center, and consulting medical director at Physicians for Reproductive Health, told Salon. “And what we know in terms of the brain and the nervous system in a fetus is that the part of the brain that perceives pain is not connected to the part of the body that receives pain signals until about 26 weeks from the last menstrual period, which is about 24 weeks from conception.”

Because the neural structures necessary to feel pain have not yet developed, any observable responses to stimuli at this gestational stage — like the fetal “flinching” during an amniocentesis — are reflexive, not experiential. Which is to say, the fetus at 20 weeks can’t actually feel anything at all. Which is to say, the fundamental justification for these laws is a really big, really popular lie.

reply to post by FlyersFan

2 - If people can't afford children, then they shouldn't be out humping. They should control themselves and use birth control which is widely available at little to no cost. It's very simple ... can't afford kids? Then act like a human instead of a mindless animal and don't make them.

You know it statements like that which loses a lot of people it gives the impression of being prudish or that you have never been in the heat of the moment with anyone.

Regardless of whether or not that is true that is the impression it gives if you are looking to gain support then you may want to be more realistic or at least refrain from insulting everyone who has had unprotected sex in their life.

Originally posted by windword
No, you're not posting facts. You're posting emotional based hyperbole that isn't based on science.

Not emotional based hyperbole.
Facts. We are talking about late term abortions. Children feel pain in those stages.
Surgery performed on children in the womb requires anesthesia .
Anesthesia provided for mother and child during middle and end of pregnancy

Doctors on Fetal Pain

1.Giuntini, 2007, “It has also been shown that fetuses feel pain from week 18. This has given rise to the practice of using fetal anesthesia for surgery or invasive diagnostic procedures in utero.”

2. Van de Velde, 2005, p.256, col.2, para.2, “Therefore, it has been suggested that pain relief has to be provided during in utero interventions on the fetus from mid-gestation (20 weeks) on. ...

The anaesthesiologist is required to provide both maternal and fetal anaesthesia and analgesia while ensuring both maternal and fetal haemodynamic stability…Since substantial evidence exists demonstrating the ability of the second trimester fetus to mount a neuroendrocrine response to noxious stimuli…fetal pain management must be considered in every case.”

To say that a child in the womb can't feel pain, when it is viable outside the womb, is absurd.
The child would feel the pain if it were outside the womb, therefore, it feels it inside the womb.
Common sense.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Think what you want. Whatever. It's the truth. If you can't afford kids, then don't pump them out.
A little self control goes a long way. I take it you've never watched a Maury show. People going
on with multiple kids .. not knowing who the fathers are ... not able to buy diapers ....
If a person is in that situation, then don't bring more people into the world.

Mistake once ... sure .. people make mistakes.
But not over and over and over and over. That's just stupidity.
47% of women having an abortion have had them before
US Abortion Statistics

reply to post by FlyersFan


From your link:

Since substantial evidence exists demonstrating the ability of the second trimester fetus to mount a neuroendrocrine response to noxious stimuli…fetal pain management must be considered in every case.

The 2nd trimester begins at 24 weeks, which coincidentally coincides with fetal viability.

What's your problem? The fetus is anesthetized in late term abortions, so it feels no pain. What will you want next, forced c-sections so that the fetus doesn't feel the pain of labor and birth?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Think what you want. Whatever. It's the truth. If you can't afford kids, then don't pump them out.
A little self control goes a long way. I take it you've never watched a Maury show. People going
on with multiple kids .. not knowing who the fathers are ... not able to buy diapers ....
If a person is in that situation, then don't bring more people into the world.

Mistake once ... sure .. people make mistakes.
But not over and over and over and over. That's just stupidity.
47% of women having an abortion have had them before
US Abortion Statistics

Why do you pretend to care about the children so much? If you really did care then you would have no problem with food stamps, social services and accessible and affordable health care for everyone right?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Well that’s up to you if you want to alienate such a large group of people or not.


You are right I don’t like that many who have had abortions before seem to repeat their mistakes however you are only fooling yourself if you think human nature is going to change any time soon. We may be human but we are still animals. Pleasure seeking short sighted sometimes stupid animals.

Originally posted by windword
The 2nd trimester begins at 24 weeks, which coincidentally coincides with fetal viability.

Correct ... and so to say that the child doesn't feel pain in the womb is incorrect.

What's your problem? The fetus is anesthetized in late term abortions, so it feels no pain.

It's OPTIONAL for the woman to ask for it for the baby.
How many poor women .. or women in general ... pay for it??
Example

New Fetal Pain Bill

n addition, Dr. James Pendergraft (pictured right), a convicted felon whose medical license has been suspended three times in Florida, advertises at LateTermAbortion.net that he will kill babies in Washington, D.C. in their “late second and third trimester.” According to this website, Pendergraft will abort up to 34 weeks, i.e., 7-1/2 months gestation.

Pendergraft lethally injects a baby by inserting a needle directly into her heart. Even convicted murderers undergoing lethal injection are anesthetized beforehand. But not innocent babies being aborted.

There is overwhelming evidence that preborn babies feel pain by the age of 20 weeks and probably much earlier. Preborn babies as young as 18 weeks are routinely anesthetized when undergoing surgery.

Description of what happens during late term abortions in Dallas
No mention of anesthesia for the baby.
Notice this is a two day stay in a hospital like environment instead of the drive through like in Orlando.