Religious fundamentalism could soon be treated as mental illness

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
The thoughts, or beliefs, in question led to inaction. That inaction led to the death of a child that didn't have to die. Are you telling us it's okay to let a child die?

The problem here is to not take a child to the hospital. When a person murders another, the problem his him murdering another. What "thoughts and beliefs" led to him murdering another? Well, it could be a few Billion different kind of thoughts and beliefs. He could use political beliefs, atheist beliefs, christian beliefs...anything, to justify his crime. You are seriously and earnestly proposing to consider thought as crime. Unbelievable.

Orwell predicted this would happen.

Originally posted by Toadmund
That's just FREAKIN' great!
Just as I was about to take up Thor as my new god.

DANG!

(hammer time)

What about Loki, he is far more likely to be considered a fundamentalist. It's his way or the highway, puny God that he is, but he has this sort of evil, cute, mischievous look about him

If you believe that there is a being that knows everything and yet his "holy book" has contradictions in it, then that seems like mental illness in my opinion.

If you believe that there is an all-powerful being that claims to be love itself, yet orders a human sacrifice in order to forgive the so-called "wrong" things they did, the that is psychotic in my opinion.

If you believe a god gave free-will and respects free-will, but then you try to force everyone else to follow your religion by putting YOUR religious values in the society as absolute LAW - then that is living in contradiction which is delusional.

Just believing in a god, and just doing what you think that god would want, is NOT mental illness. But to believe in a God that claims to be love but will eternally torture something, and that claims to have given a GIFT of free-will and yet want to eternally torture people for using it.

That is contradiction.
That is delusion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Which Constitutional right do Christians want to prevent non-Christians from having?

And don't post an example of one Christian person. That would be using the extreme rare exception to define a rule, a huge fallacy.

The opposition to equal rights for gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. The "war on Christmas" propaganda, where Christians want the right to display nativities and the ten commandments, but throw a fit and vandalize secular, Islamic, and pagan representations when they're also put up. The attempts by the Christian right to interfere with / pass abortion laws that take away the rights of mothers. Everything the Westboro Baptist church does. The opposition from Christians to an Interfaith mosque being constructed near (not on top of) the site of the World Trade centers. The protests against Obama as both a "secret Muslim" and a non-native to America. Or, my favorite, the fact that courts of law and government positions practically require belief in a Christian deity before your testimony/service will be accepted.

And that's just the past decade, without including such wonderful things as the banning of pagans and homosexuals in the military, the illegality of homosexuality in other Christian countries. The KKK, an admittedly Christian group that once held large sway over our government and was iron-clad in their belief in the racial inferiority of African-Americans.

All of that aside though, I know what you're trying to do, and you'll note that in my original reply I clearly stated that:

If, on the other hand, your religious affiliation allows for the free expression and practice of another's belief / non-belief, then you're probably not part of the problem, and are just fine.

Although I know that fundamentalist Christians love to claim they're being persecuted, this isn't one of those instances.

Christians who believe in Jesus, go to Church on Sunday, and say their nightly prayers are perfectly fine in my book. So are Muslims, and Buddhists and Hindus and pagans, and everyone of all stripes.

It is when you actively seek to interfere with the values, beliefs, and freedom of expression of another that you cross a line in my book.


~ Wandering Scribe

“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.”
― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Guenter

 

The Supreme Court has logically and accurately

labeled

atheism

as a RELIGION . . .

I don't think that's correct. Can you please provide a citation/link for this claim?

Haven't tracked that one down yet.

Here's a Federal court ruling such:

www.wnd.com...

reply to post by tothetenthpower


If I overstated your . . . or misunderstood your assertions to be globally blackwashing of Christianity, I'm sorry.

They tend to SOUND that way here and there.

I'm not in favor of RELIGION period.

Christianity, authentic Christianity is about a RELATIONSHIP with a Person.

Yet, as Freud said, even a religion of Love would be unloving to those not members of it.

IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP dynamics are horrendous regardless of the groups and rationalizations for the labels.

I guess I get weary of the relentless Christianity bashing that seems to get a free pass hereon by so many.

reply to post by Guenter


However such a court ruling does indicate that some very respected minds agreed that atheism is a religion.

I think that's the point.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Guenter

 

However such a court ruling does indicate that some very respected minds agreed that atheism is a religion.

I think that's the point.

It just shows that there is little of respectful minds in the USSC.

Just read the SC ruling. it is in content with permission to ensure the 1st amendment. That said prisoner can form a group of like minded atheists the same as other can open a bible study. So this makes a hell of a difference, than claiming atheism is a religion. In terms of right to assembly it is akin to the right to assemble as if one is a religion.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I asked for a Constitutional right and not a single thing you posted is mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

So again, what "rights", do Christians want to deny non-Christians? Just give me the amendment numbers if that would be less complicated.

Originally posted by Guenter

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by Guenter

 

that's a bit over the top..I'm sure their are plenty of sane religious people you know...the same argument can be made for people who believe in aliens or ghosts...we shouldn't be telling people what they should and should not believe in...if they are a threat to you religion may be part of the problem but I suspect there are other mental health issues going on that trump the religion...

Well it is not really over the top. As I read in a quote ones: >
There is a fine line between "believing" and changing ones life so that ones actions reflect ones believes. Religion after all is the enemy to natural behavior. Being "chosen", being "right", being saved etc. And then the need to turn these dogmas and believes into actual LAWS that affect you and me on a daily basis.

I think you should not kill or harm another human so some of the ideas are good. It is the moral ideal some of the religions have that are a bit off from my point of view. If something is symbiotic between two equal or more persons and it is not hurting anyone that I have no right to interfere with what people do. I do agree with the bible that ursury/banking is something that should not be allowed since it parasites on real peoples effort/work wihtout really producing anything real.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle


I think you should not kill or harm another human so some of the ideas are good. It is the moral ideal some of the religions have that are a bit off from my point of view. If something is symbiotic between two equal or more persons and it is not hurting anyone that I have no right to interfere with what people do. I do agree with the bible that ursury/banking is something that should not be allowed since it parasites on real peoples effort/work wihtout really producing anything real.

There is my problem with "believers" who think that "Morality" is due to religion and laws. ANY species is "Moral". Without this instinctive morality we would not survive! The abuse of a system and so forth is a result of civilization that created unnatural conditions, i.e. MONEY. As a social species it is against our instincts to kill one another because it removes our social integrety. It is exactly religion with it I am better than you, I am CHOSEN and so attitude that causes the wars.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Something is defiantly wrong with people like the ones the OP had shown who let two of their children die because their faith taught them they could pray the pneumonia away. That has to be a form of mental illness.

It all depends on how much synchronicity are surrounding them or am I wrong in my assumption? The placebo effect can be manipulated and enhanced but the science behind it is non existent. We have a lot still to learn and quantify so it is easily understood and not be labeled as mystic. Maybe you can use reiki (fix the flow of spiritual energy in the body) also to make it better.

But why not take medicine when it seems to work efficiently and use the reiki/chakra and placebo effect as a complement?

I am more unsure how I would deal with cancer if I was a person who was going to get chemotherapy and radiation therapy or surgery? Would I go better diet and removing toxins and just being out in nature or trust the current scientific knowledge? In this case I would probably personally allow surgery but not chemotherapy and radiation therapy. For me these procedures seems very low tech and a better targeting system that only harms the cancer cells and not healthy cells should be created instead. But make your own decision since I an bit 100% up to speed on the latest cancer research.

reply to post by BO XIAN

The Supreme Court has logically and accurately

labeled

atheism

as a RELIGION . . .

It has all the features & aspects of a religion.

It most absolutely does not. This has been discussed at lengths in prior threads. I can link a great one for you if you wish (care to) see how wrong you are.

Religion has deity(s), dogma, ritual, tenets...

Atheism has but one belief. The belief god(s) don't exist. That's it. Anything more than that leaves the bounds of atheism. There is no mandated texts in which to unite atheists. The religious however can be grouped this way.

Since when has the US Supreme Court spoken for the rest of the World?

Since when has the US Supreme Court had an expertise in philosophy and theology?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by luciddream
Its more of a mental addiction then a an illness.

Mental addiction. Sure. I can see that. In fundamentalism (be it Christian or Muslim or whatever), the person thinks they are specially chosen and have a mission from God, etc etc. That kind of attention from God can be addicting, especially because we live in a dreary mundane world.

Then there are those who don't know any better .. who aren't allowed to hear anything except what their religious leaders say ... who are killed if they leave their fundamentalist religion. That's a whole other mind bending situation.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
We'll soon be a protected class. Those who are areligious will need to complete sensitivity training and we'll be able to receive disability benefits.

That was excellent!

Don't mess with the missionary man.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I'd say that if someone uses those two words interchangeably, they already don't know what spirituality means.

Religion is faux-spirituality in my opinion.

Are you not judging religion to hard? The religious text can have spiritual information but the seeking and understanding of those texts is between you and god. Good priest can be help full as a thing to test think thru ideas on, if they are not do single minded and boxed in. I have myself found what I think is hidden things in the bible that is quite interesting from my view .

reply to post by LittleByLittle


I agree the bible has tons of spirituality in it, but it is almost entirely hidden by religious institutions that force feed a certain interpretation from birth with the threat of eternal suffering behind it and interpolation on the part of those who put it together.

Religion is not spirituality. Going to church and listening to someone tell you what they think something means and then accepting it without question is the complete opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is a personal journey and having someone else tell you what to believe is neither spiritual nor personal.

So no, I don't think I am judging religion too harshly at all. I'm all for people believing what they want to, and I believe religion is the opposite of spirituality.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I can't help but agree.

If you think that a 3000 year old piece of literature can be used to kill, maim, hate or otherwise oppress other people, than you do have a mental illness.

Just because you think it's what God wants, doesn't make it any less insane.

Remember they are talking about fundamentalists. Not your mom and pop who attend church every week and hold moderate Christian or ( insert religion here) ideals.

~Tenth

What you are really describing is only one duality that we use kill, main and hate otherwise oppress others for. There are others in human history like nationality, color of your skin and material wealth.The insanity is the dualistic notion that just because we have another view, the others view must be wrong for them.

An example:
For a non-promiscuous person promiscuity is wrong for that person. That means he/she should not be promiscuous since it will feel wrong for that person. For a promiscuous person many partners feels right. Neither is really wrong as long as nobody get hurt and the people are open with what they are and what they want. The problem arises when the non-promiscuous try to change the promiscuous to fit their mold. Or promiscuous people who are hiding what they are to get more people to be promiscuous with.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

I agree the bible has tons of spirituality in it, but it is almost entirely hidden by religious institutions that force feed a certain interpretation from birth with the threat of eternal suffering behind it and interpolation on the part of those who put it together.

Religion is not spirituality. Going to church and listening to someone tell you what they think something means and then accepting it without question is the complete opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is a personal journey and having someone else tell you what to believe is neither spiritual nor personal.

So no, I don't think I am judging religion too harshly at all. I'm all for people believing what they want to, and I believe religion is the opposite of spirituality.

edit on 9-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I can relate to what you are saying but I do not 100% agree in the protestant church that I have attended because the priests seem to be more open minded than what you describe. The last time I was in church the priest was lightly trying to hint toward mystical experiences. Maybe it depends on where you are and what churches you go to. I think they are in fact waking up to understand more and see it for themselves individually.

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO

It may turn out different. They might stay away from religious or ultra-religious people. However, I have my doubts. Have a look at the DSM-5. They're hunting down any and all anomalies.

Something in our brain causes quite a number of us to become religious. It might be anxiety about the world or anxiety about ourselves. Maybe it's a need to explain the unexplainable. It inevitably leads to irrational things if the person has a strong belief. This can cause them to turn away from good professional advice. It can cause them to harm their children or themselves.

I was thinking abou this earlier. I probably have a form of perfectionism and something like social anxiety disorder or aspergers. Anyway, I remember thinking that they'll go after the religious people too. I grew up being religious. I know from experience that religion is whacky. How long can they ignore it? It's like the elephant in the room. Fundamentalism is a huge target.

If they want to do this, they'll find a way. They're coming for us all, I think.