Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
If the Historical eyewitness accounts of scripture are proof enough for you why you asking for more.

What are you talking about? The person said that Muhammad was God's messenger.
I asked him to prove it. Anyone can come along and claim to be doing God's work.
Heck .. Bush43 claimed it. That doesn't mean it was true. There has to be proof.
Proof in what the person does. Proof of God working through that person. SOMETHING.

Is scripture only the New testament and all others the devils work

New Testament = First hand eyewitness accounts of the life of Christ.
Old Testament = HUMAN work. Not the devils work. And unreliable due to age. Much of it was poorly transcribed (stolen) from the ancient summerians and ancient egyptians.
The Qu'ran = Much of it is poorly transcribed (stolen) stories, greatly changed, from the Jews, Christians and Zoroastrianism.

reply to post by FlyersFan

New Testament = First hand eyewitness accounts of the life of Christ. Old Testament = HUMAN work. Not the devils work. And unreliable due to age. Much of it was poorly transcribed (stolen) from the ancient summerians and ancient egyptians. The Qu'ran = Much of it is poorly transcribed (stolen) stories, greatly changed, from the Jews, Christians and Zoroastrianism.

About the Jews and the Muslims, you say they have stolen, greatly changed (wouldn't that be deceiving, deceit being the way of the devil ) but the new Testament is first hand eyewitness accounts. prove it.

There has to be proof. Proof in what the person does. Proof of God working through that person. SOMETHING.

So why do you give me scripture that you claim (claims need to be proved according to you) is proof and not accept the other holy books as proof but as stolen works or deception?

What are you talking about?

Basic logic, because your type of logic is telling me that Dr Suess Cat in a Hat is proof that cats wear red and white stripped hats and red bow ties.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by buster2010
You can of course prove these other prophets performed miracles. I mean hard evidence not some story in a book.

Invent a time machine. Otherwise all you have is faith.

And faith has as much substance as a fart.

This is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever seen on this site. Impressive.

Faith is one of the building blocks of creation, and progress, and it is vital for even normal function. If you did not have "faith" that the roof over your head would hold, or the floor beneath you, you couldn't even focus on the words you're reading right now-- you'd be too terrified of injury or death, or attempting to ensure that these things would not occur.

If men didn't have faith that they could accomplish things which had never been done, history would have gotten pretty boring, pretty quickly. Do some research about the 4 minute mile. About how everyone though tit was impossible, until someone did it. Then, believing...knowing (aka faith) that it was possible, suddenly plenty of people were able to accomplish it. Similar story for human lifting (weight) capacity. Of course the importance and application of faith does not stop there.


Your confusing "faith" with "religion" only betrays your own ignorance.


Nice avatar, though.

Another duality thread where one view pokes at another view thinking it is more right than the other. Well I am gonna give my two cents also and piss of all sides.

Christian Bible. A very nice loving message that seem to be corrupted at the end by a wolf in sheep clothing and changed by politicians to suit there need.

Quran. I have tried reading a translated version to English but maybe the translation is bad because all I get is you should fear god and unequal fundamentalistic ideas of the differences between sexes. Not a fan at all and think that someone who can create an even bigger sin to judge a smaller sin (that might not even be a sin from gods perspective) is in fact very unwise.

On both sides. I have a big problem listening to priest saying they know what is the right way for any soul to reach it highest potential and experience the divine love from above. They are making assumptions on a level that they would not make if they where really wise. In any relationship there are two parts interacting with each other. Who are the priest to judge how god and that soul should interact with each other?

But one thing that I thing Muslim got right is usury. That is a nasty thing that should not be allowed that is screwing up the western world. To bad that the Muslim seem to be to brainwashed by priests to see that they are also a problem for and equal society where humans do not judge each other if no one is hurt by a behaviour.

reply to post by LUXUS


Yes so it seems the history of religion and myths, are a precursor to modern fiction stories, like comic book superheros for instance. Compare those concepts and stories to the myths of Gods and such.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

 

If there are similarities between the Biblical religions and Islam is because all three are part of the same prophetic tradition... starting from Adam and ending with Mohammad. Of course, Christians stop short of acknowledging Mohammad... and the Jews refuse to acknowledge Jesus and Mohammad.

edit on 8-8-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Following, adhearnce, and belief are subjective.

Continuing in your rationale, the Muslims refuse to acknowledge Baha'ullah of the Baha'i Faith. Baha'ullah claims a unity of religions.


Were the Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Canaanites, and Mystery Schools of Rome and Greece part of this Biblical religion? Because it is apparent that Juadaism, Christianity, and Islam used stories, teachings, and concepts already found in these earlier ideologies.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

What are you talking about?

Basic logic,

No. I"m talking about this sentence of yours ... "If the Historical eyewitness accounts of scripture are proof enough for you why you asking for more" .... it makes no sense. The New Testament is traceable to the events of Jesus in history. The eyewitness accounts were put together in one book. However, the Old Testament rewrote events or myths from other ancient cultures of thousands of years previous - Summerian and Eyptian to name a few - and the traceability is lost. And the Qu'ran just out and out took the stories from others and changed them. That's not opinion. That's fact.

As for the eyewitness events of the New Testament, there is phyisical proof of the locations and the historical figured involved were real however, only eyewitness testamony can be offered as 'proof' of the events of Jesus. It is up to you to accept that eyewitness testamony .. which is traceable ... as proof or not. IF the events in the New Testament happened as the eyewitness claim, then those events prove that Jesus was from God.

Muhammad has no such proofs. And the stories that he told in the Qu'ran were just old stories from other religions that he messed up. So the proof against Muhammad being of God is rather strong.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
About the Jews and the Muslims, you say they have stolen, greatly changed (wouldn't that be deceiving, deceit being the way of the devil )

People are capable of great evil without the devil being involved.

So why do you give me scripture that you claim (claims need to be proved according to you) is proof and not accept the other holy books as proof but as stolen works or deception?

Traceability. Continuity. The New Testament is traceable and contains non-corrupted eyewitness accounts. Eyewitness testimony is proof in a court of law. If you chose not to accept that eyewitness testimony, or you think they had an agenda of their own, that's your choice. I accept the eyewitness testimony as proof.

And I'm not 'claiming' that the Old Testament and the Qu'ran are borrowed and manipulated .. I'm saying that has been proven without a doubt. There are plenty of threads here discussing those facts.

The Jews the Muslims and the Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham

The Jews believe the old testament, the Christians believe the new testament
and the Muslims believe that Mohammed wrote the Quran as the latest testament.

(Or actually it is Joe Smith--of the Mormons--who wrote the latest testament. The Quran
is actually only the penultimate Abrahamic religious textbook)

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

-Voltaire

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The New Testament is traceable to the events of Jesus in history.

The New Testament is the only existing "History" of Jesus (according to you), so...it is traceable to events of Jesus in itself?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
As for the eyewitness events of the New Testament, there is phyisical proof of the locations and the historical figured involved were real...

You mean like King Herod ordering the deaths of all the babies? Or the rising of all the dead after the crucifixion?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The New Testament is traceable and contains non-corrupted eyewitness accounts. Eyewitness testimony is proof in a court of law.

Errr...no it doesn't. And hearsay, which is what the Bible ACTUALLY contains (i.e. Someone told me that this person who was with Jesus at the time said that Jesus said "...." or did ....) is not proof in a court of law.

I am pretty sure that the meaning of the OP Thread title is specifically contorted... by the typo

Preformed a single miracle instead of the accurate wording Performed a single miracle


i submit this is not a slip of the keyboard but a deliberate confounding of the Issue....
between to Pre-form a idea/act/whatever and the act of Performing

Can anyone but God really pre-form a miracle?

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Your post resonates only if one accepts that Christ's miracles were not made up as well. Otherwise, it's all spin aimed at the gullible.

Thats not my point, we don't know if Christ even existed so we cant comment on supposed miracles preformed. We do know however that Muhammad did exist and because there is extensive records from that time we can say that he never preformed a single miracle.

I learned about islam a little from a book.

God is not Great, how religion poisons everything. by Christopher Hitchens.
I had no idea that the same usual suspects created it as well

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by buster2010
You can of course prove these other prophets performed miracles. I mean hard evidence not some story in a book.

Invent a time machine. Otherwise all you have is faith.

And faith has as much substance as a fart.

..yet you have it in your whatever you believe.. if you say you don't you are dishonest.

you use faith on a daily basis.

reply to post by LUXUS


Neither Moses, Jesus, nor Mohammed ever performed miracles. The belief in wondrous deeds and actions stems from the pagan faiths of the ancient middle east. The gods of Mesopotamia, Persia, India, and the Levant were all known to be capable of astounding feats.

When the Hebrews began to crystallize their own religious belief, with a "superior" deity, it was important that man, and not just the Lord, be capable of doing the miraculous feats of the "false" gods. In turn, because Abraham, Moses, and the others were capable of the same miracles as the pagan deities, it made the Hebrew deity, who could do so much more than His followers, appear all the more impressive.

Consider 1 Kings 18: 20-40, the story of Elijah and the priests of Ba'al. In this tale, a single human follower of the Lord goes toe-to-toe with all of the priests of the "false" god, Ba'al. The single Jew is able to elicit a more miraculous spectacle from his deity than all of the priests of Ba'al together.

The same thing happened with the Church when it encountered the Greek, Roman, Etruscan, and Celtic peoples. The lives and times of the Saints so closely mirror pagan deities, to the point where some are even considered to have been pagan deities, because the Church needed a way to demonize or slander the pagan beliefs, and instill awe and wonder and reverence for the Christian theology.

Consider Brigid of Kildare, an early Irish Christian saint, who, scholarly, is widely believed to be nothing more than a plagiarism of the pan-Celtic goddess Brigid. Because Irish Christianity developed in an insular way, that is cut off from Roman influence, the Irish Christian people maintained their belief in pagan nature spirits and deities. When the Roman Catholic Church couldn't force this belief from the people, they converted it.

Or, consider Justin Martyr's quote concerning Jesus Christ, and his function as a human being who fulfilled the roles of the "false" pagan gods. Jesus, like Moses and the saints, was meant to be a human being capable of performing the same miraculous feats as the pagan gods, thereby making God Himself look all the more impressive:

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

First Apology, Chapter XXI

The "miracles" of Islam are more of the same.

Still, the monotheists chooses to remain oblivious to the obvious reactionary element of their faith.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Retikx
Who's Muhammad?

wasn't he some fighter guy who beat up floating butterflies and
fought for equal rights for singing bees?

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Encore
Muhammad was a messenger sent by the god , just like Jesus Christ

1 - Prove it. Prove that Muhammad was really a messenger from God.
2 - And prove that he was 'just like Jesus Christ'. Considering that Jesus performed miracles and
considering that Jesus didn't raise Armies to slaughter and rape people, I think you are going to have a tough time proving it. But go ahead and try ...

edit on 8/8/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Show proof that Jesus actually existed. There is proof of Mohammed lived but where is the proof for Jesus.

There's over 5000 manuscripts that prove Jesus' existence. There's roughly only 20 that prove Socrates & Plato lived.. Lets stick to the argument if he preformed miracles or not and not argue if he existed because atheist bible scholars even agree he did.

One question I would like to ask a Muslim is how can you base an entire religion off of 1 angels apparent message when Enoch, Grandfather of Noah had encounters with 4 angels; Gabriel, Michael, Uriel and Raphael and his writings aren't even taken seriously/literal.

Considering the fact that the people of that area not only had sickeningly loose morals, i.e paedophilia was the norm... And were quite commonly known to be high on opiates and hallucinogenic drugs etc.
I find it insanely hard to believe that anyone in their right mind would stop and go "hey, you know that drug abusing paedophile has definitely got to be gods messenger"
Instead of "Hey that drug abusing paedophile is trying to con us into accepting that paedophilia & murder etc. Are all fine! "

Haha it's ludicrous,
I'm pretty sure if Average Joe were to get high on drugs with his child bride now, that no person with any right mind would happily listen to them and let them get away with it lol

I say he did. Muhammad, despite his and his current follower's monstrous acts, nonsensical ramblings, and legacy of ignorance, 1400 years later he managed to get the God hating atheists of ATS to defend him and his followers consistently. I think that's a pretty good miracle.

reply to post by LUXUS




You say Miracle, I say Miracle Whip. Why can't all the Abrahamic religions just get along?

They are waterfalls caused by drops from the same stream source, no matter how you cut it, nor how many diverging paths they take, no matter how uncomfortable it is for all involved.

Fighting between Christians Muslims and Jews is involving the entire planet in a way that is unwelcome and unhealthy.

Funny you should mention this because I am also wondering what this most recent Priest (John Paul II) did to be elevated to Sainthood. Somebody who was sick got better? I remember when God would get the credit for something like that.