The arrival of "Concentration Camps" in Russia

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Animals AREN'T Human...In case you didn't notice

edit on 7-8-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)

Humans are animals, I know this is a shock to you, but please catch up with the study of the natural sciences.

You claim that the acceptance of gay people will somehow diminish the Human population in some way, as if we'll all suddenly start to become gay and stop breeding. This is your ridiculous assertion, not mine.

Humans are animals, and no other species on this planet has the same homophobia or religious indoctrination affecting their social structure. If what you claim to be scared of was actually possible, thousands of species where gay activity has been repeatedly observed would have wiped themselves out by now.

If you're going to present completely irrational arguments to support your beliefs, at least have a semblance of ability to defend it when challenged.

reply to post by ERagerz


Continuing an earlier post...........wherein I was characterizing some significant cultural and social distinctions/differences between the Obamanation, and the distinctly freer more open society promoted by President Vladimir Putin - one actively promotes and encourages bizarre sexual behavior amongst the citizenry, and the other condemns it. One endorses - from a position of authority - the barbaric practices of abortion, (partial birth and otherwise), and infanticide while the other condemns it as uncivilized.

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Come now, I have no irrational fears apart from that of spiders and clowns. I sharn't waste my energy on none intelligent discussion.

It's "unintelligent" or "non-intelligent", and "shan't".

If you wish to try to determine superiority by using claims of the person you disagree with being "unintelligent", you really should first ensure that you are proving your worth through the proper use of English.

And, it is indeed irrational to believe that modern society will somehow crumble if you are forced to accept gay people. That is, as proven, an irrational and nonsensical statement to make, whether you think of it as such or not.

If that's how you want to play, you should know it is incorrect English to start a sentence with the word 'and'...... How childish we have become

You claim that the acceptance of gay people will somehow diminish the Human population in some way, as if we'll all suddenly start to become gay and stop breeding. This is your ridiculous assertion, not mine.

Yuk. Can you please stop putting words into my mouth - I have not stated half the things you think I have.

For the sake of killing the extra 3 minutes whilst sat at my desk, I'd like to add 'none intelligent' is correct English, the two words aren't mutually exclusive.

I am also NOT a homophobe - I don't go 'Phobic' when I see them aha.

It amazes me how many people try to convince the other person of their *own* opinions and thoughts, like you have invaded my brain and claim that I am lying to my self LMAFO!

DEAL with my opinion, don't try and force your views on me.

Yes, as the member below pointed out, there is a distinct difference between HU-Man and Animal. We may share mammalian physiological likenesses, but mentally *we* are more aware. (well, some of us are!)

If you cannot differentiate between the two, why I'm I here talking about the implications of gay psychology propaganda with you?

Originally posted by ERagerz
reply to post by ERagerz

 

Continuing an earlier post...........wherein I was characterizing some significant cultural and social distinctions/differences between the Obamanation, and the distinctly freer more open society promoted by President Vladimir Putin - one actively promotes and encourages bizarre sexual behavior amongst the citizenry, and the other condemns it. One endorses - from a position of authority - the barbaric practices of abortion, (partial birth and otherwise), and infanticide while the other condemns it as uncivilized.

edit on 7-8-2013 by ERagerz because: (no reason given)

Oh sure, you're free in Russia -- as long as you aren't an ethnic minority, or a member of the press, or a gay person, or you don't do anything that Putin might not like....

www.freedomhouse.org...

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by Telos
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

We've already debated together before on the subject and you (i hope) recall that I have no problem with gay people. Why are you bringing it up again I don't get it? And why in every thread that talks about gays, you jump like you're the defender of all gays in the world. Dude, be gay if you will, but take it easy because the world doesn't revolve on you and other gays. This thread is not even about gays rights per say. When are you guys gonna learn to stick on the topic?

This is on-topic.
We are discussing both the aspect of simplistic thinking in support or attack of governments and nations, AND the issue of LGBT people being used as a scapegoat and distraction by the Russian regime.

I don't know why you think that discussing LGBT rights in a thread about a government attacking that group in their society is off-topic. I guess you just want it to be so as an alternative method of disparaging when rational argument and debate goes against you?

Crying something is off-topic to diminish an opinion is a lame tactic.

Because you and others have to understand that the issue is not LGBT community in Russia but is the stand of this country against the forced opinion and laws by the puppet masters. LGTB as a community cannot be banished by no laws. Is the people who massively condemn it and don't like it. In a lot of other ex communist countries who were forced to pass laws by the EU because WAS A CONDITION for this countries to be part of the union, still people massively don't like and are not ok with all this "gay hype." If you doubt my words then feel free to start a poll with people from Russia and other countries from ex communist block and see the result yourself. Of course there are gay people in this countries but the majority don't like that and there is no political decision that will change that. I'm sorry but that's the truth. In this aspect Russia is not doing anything different from what its people feel like massively.

us brits have them as well for deportees and were the first to use them in africa on the boers so no biggie there .
russia you are so behind the times

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Animals AREN'T Human...In case you didn't notice

edit on 7-8-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)

Humans are animals, I know this is a shock to you, but please catch up with the study of the natural sciences.

You claim that the acceptance of gay people will somehow diminish the Human population in some way, as if we'll all suddenly start to become gay and stop breeding. This is your ridiculous assertion, not mine.
Humans are animals, and no other species on this planet has the same homophobia or religious indoctrination affecting their social structure. If what you claim to be scared of was actually possible, thousands of species where gay activity has been repeatedly observed would have wiped themselves out by now.
If you're going to present completely irrational arguments to support your beliefs, at least have a semblance of ability to defend it when challenged.

Humans are distinct from animals and theologically speaking here's a short lesson in how and why - Animals have souls--and so do plants. This is NOT to say that animals and plants have souls like ours.

The soul is the principle of life. Since animals and plants are living things, they have souls, but not in the sense in which human beings have souls. Our souls are rational--theirs aren't--and ours are rational because they're spiritual, not material.

Animals and plants can't do anything which transcends the limitations of matter. Although some animals seem clever, they don't actually possess conceptional intelligence. They can't, for instance, conceive of the abstract notion of justice.

Animals and plants also lack a moral sense. When you scold Spot for chewing the carpet and tell him what he did was "wrong," you aren't assigning guilt of sin to him, since he can't commit a sin.

Animal and vegetable souls are dependent entirely on matter for their operation and being. They cease to exist at death. (There's no "doggie heaven.")

Human souls, by contrast, aren't material. They're spiritual. Only a spirit can know and love, a spirit's two chief faculties being the intellect (which knows) and the will (which loves). We know human souls are spiritual since humans can know and love.

We also know human souls are immortal because spirits can't decompose. They have no parts: Only a thing with parts can fall apart. A spirit is a unit. It has no top or bottom, no left or right, no inside or outside.

Every bit of matter, even the smallest, has parts. The human body can decompose--it's made of matter, after all--but the human soul can't. That's why we say it's immortal.

Originally posted by Telos

Because you and others have to understand that the issue is not LGBT community in Russia but is the stand of this country against the forced opinion and laws by the puppet masters. LGTB as a community cannot be banished by no laws. Is the people who massively condemn it and don't like it. In a lot of other ex communist countries who were forced to pass laws by the EU because WAS A CONDITION for this countries to be part of the union, still people massively don't like and are not ok with all this "gay hype." If you doubt my words then feel free to start a poll with people from Russia and other countries from ex communist block and see the result yourself. Of course there are gay people in this countries but the majority don't like that and there is no political decision that will change that. I'm sorry but that's the truth. In this aspect Russia is not doing anything different from what its people feel like massively.

So they are a country filled with homophobes, and this is a good thing because.....?

You know, America used to be a country filled with homophobes. Now, the homophobes are in the minority. New generations of people can change. With knowledge and education, people become more tolerant. Look at the civil rights movement as another example. Most people in America, especially the southern part of America, actually thought that blacks were inferior to whites. Most people don't think that anymore. Can people change? Yes they can.

Originally posted by kaylaluv


So they are a country filled with homophobes, and this is a good thing because.....?

You know, America used to be a country filled with homophobes. Now, the homophobes are in the minority. New generations of people can change. With knowledge and education, people become more tolerant. Look at the civil rights movement as another example. Most people in America, especially the southern part of America, actually thought that blacks were inferior to whites. Most people don't think that anymore. Can people change? Yes they can.

You call them homophobes but I don't see them as such. You and people like you have been fighting against labels from society and yet you are the worst in labeling others that don't think the same way as you do. This people aren't homophobes, they just don't share the same opinion with you. IF you think being gay and accepting it openly is liberal, for those people is degradation and degeneration of the society. So is a matter of convictions. And I don't agree with the fact that the so called homophobes are a minority in the States or elsewhere. In my opinion is the political correctness that keeps people's mouth shut and makes them act hypocritically. And that's the worst thing that could have happened to a society. Despite being considered a country where the freedom of speech is the basis of the society, yet for the sake of political correctness people have to keep their mouth shot and not express their opinion because can offend others (even though when that opinion is expressed in the most polite and respectful way). The worst thing is that the majority (according to your logic) makes fun and a lot of jokes about gay people. How do I know? You have to be straight and you'll see what goes on behind the closet (no pun intended). So how the reality is and how this people act is totally different. And this level of hypocrisy is devastating to the society. We have become a society of not only puppets but clowns and hypocrites who like parrots repeat words with our mouth but not with our mind. Some advanced society huh...

In one part in your comment you mention that with knowledge and education people become more tolerant. You have no idea what kind of can of worms you've just opened. Compare to the education and knowledge of the people in those countries, USA people are illiterates (en masse).

Originally posted by Telos

And I don't agree with the fact that the so called homophobes are a minority in the States or elsewhere. In my opinion is the political correctness that keeps people's mouth shut and makes them act hypocritically. And that's the worst thing that could have happened to a society. Despite being considered a country where the freedom of speech is the basis of the society, yet for the sake of political correctness people have to keep their mouth shot and not express their opinion because can offend others (even though when that opinion is expressed in the most polite and respectful way).

Well, obviously I disagree. The younger generation for the most part, doesn't understand what the big deal is about "the gays". The ones who do have a problem with it, were taught to judge by their parents. I can pretty much guarantee you that a hundred years from now, kids growing up will have no idea of how the previous generations judged gays.

The worst thing is that the majority (according to your logic) makes fun and a lot of jokes about gay people. How do I know? You have to be straight and you'll see what goes on behind the closet (no pun intended). So how the reality is and how this people act is totally different. And this level of hypocrisy is devastating to the society. We have become a society of not only puppets but clowns and hypocrites who like parrots repeat words with our mouth but not with our mind. Some advanced society huh...

I guess you think I'm gay... I'm not. And I don't repeat words with my mouth and not my mind. Nobody I know does that. Maybe you and your friends do it ....

In one part in your comment you mention that with knowledge and education people become more tolerant. You have no idea what kind of can of worms you've just opened. Compare to the education and knowledge of the people in those countries, USA people are illiterates (en masse).

I wasn't talking about math and science. I was referring to education on social issues - like, the term "gay" isn't synonymous with the term "pedophile"; gays didn't invent the AIDS virus; gays aren't trying to convert all heterosexuals; most gays want home/stability/family, just like everyone else; gays work hard at their jobs, pay taxes, buy homes, mow their yards, raise kids, fight in wars for our freedoms, just like everyone else; gays aren't all atheists and devil worshipers, some gays are actually Christians/Jews/Muslims - you know, stuff like that.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Well, obviously I disagree. The younger generation for the most part, doesn't understand what the big deal is about "the gays". The ones who do have a problem with it, were taught to judge by their parents. I can pretty much guarantee you that a hundred years from now, kids growing up will have no idea of how the previous generations judged gays.

If gays were so massively part of the society of all ages then the problem with it is going to be always present. Besides you're confusing judgment with different. People (a lot) don't judge gayness but are different from being gay.

I guess you think I'm gay... I'm not. And I don't repeat words with my mouth and not my mind. Nobody I know does that. Maybe you and your friends do it ....

I was implying you were gay for the sake of the conversation. And no, I don't repeat words with my mouth. I do express my opinion despite your disagreement And I will never shut my mouth off because you or others might think that I'm not being sensitive. As long as it is within the norms and decorum of a civilized conversation, I do express my opinion and I stick to it.

I wasn't talking about math and science. I was referring to education on social issues - like, the term "gay" isn't synonymous with the term "pedophile"; gays didn't invent the AIDS virus; gays aren't trying to convert all heterosexuals; most gays want home/stability/family, just like everyone else; gays work hard at their jobs, pay taxes, buy homes, mow their yards, raise kids, fight in wars for our freedoms, just like everyone else; gays aren't all atheists and devil worshipers, some gays are actually Christians/Jews/Muslims - you know, stuff like that.

I have a broad first hand experience with the countries I mentioned in my previous post but honestly in neither of them I've heard those kind of topics. I never heard that gays invented AIDS (even though since we're on ATS we all know that gay community was the first hit by design), I never heard that gays were blamed for ruin the family structure. No one has any doubts that gay are people who work, pay taxes, come from a family, fight for freedom etc. They just don't share their choice and cannot understand that huge obsession of gay people to shovel acceptance on everybody's throat, that their gayness is such a value, let's have a parade and walk bare @ss on the streets and display gay affection and just ignore the feelings of others as long as our feelings aren't hurt etc. Yes, this is the kind of things I've heard in those countries.

Originally posted by Telos


I have a broad first hand experience with the countries I mentioned in my previous post but honestly in neither of them I've heard those kind of topics. I never heard that gays invented AIDS (even though since we're on ATS we all know that gay community was the first hit by design), I never heard that gays were blamed for ruin the family structure. No one has any doubts that gay are people who work, pay taxes, come from a family, fight for freedom etc. They just don't share their choice and cannot understand that huge obsession of gay people to shovel acceptance on everybody's throat, that their gayness is such a value, let's have a parade and walk bare @ss on the streets and display gay affection and just ignore the feelings of others as long as our feelings aren't hurt etc. Yes, this is the kind of things I've heard in those countries.

Really -- it's only about gay pride parades? That's why gays are afraid for their lives in Russia? That's why gays are afraid to walk outside their homes or apartments? Afraid to go to their jobs? What about the gays who never went to the parades?

“It is now literally illegal in Russia to say that you are gay. It is illegal to kiss your partner in public – say, after you win a gold medal. It is illegal for a gay athlete to wear the rainbow flag. Or even to acknowledge during an interview that they are gay – or for the foreign press to acknowledge it – unless they mention that gay s*xual orientation in a negative way.”

www.informationng.com...

This goes way beyond gay pride parades in Russia.

Russia is an oppressive regime.
My company have had them classified as such for a long time, and refuse to do business with any business that provide them with arms.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Really -- it's only about gay pride parades? That's why gays are afraid for their lives in Russia? That's why gays are afraid to walk outside their homes or apartments? Afraid to go to their jobs? What about the gays who never went to the parades?

Are you even serious? Really? Did you understand what I wrote to you?

“It is now literally illegal in Russia to say that you are gay. It is illegal to kiss your partner in public – say, after you win a gold medal. It is illegal for a gay athlete to wear the rainbow flag. Or even to acknowledge during an interview that they are gay – or for the foreign press to acknowledge it – unless they mention that gay s*xual orientation in a negative way.”

www.informationng.com...

This goes way beyond gay pride parades in Russia.

Don't care what the media say. I based my conversation with you on a first hand experience. You want to ignore what I presented here? Fine. At this point I don't think makes more sense continuing on and on over the same arguments.

Mods, can this thread be closed please? It's turned into another gay bashing thread, with a few of us being attacked for daring to try to fight back against it.

I should have known better I suppose, but whenever the topic of LGBT issues come up too many are silent and a small group of fanatics start preaching about "the gay agenda".

russia is just as bad as u.s.........

it's a matter of checks and balances, they both keep each other in check, like 2 bullies.....

Regardless, things will change. If a civil war occurs in the states where its the citizens against the feds, I can see the ruskies coming in to lend a hand to the citizens, or the other way around.....

interesting times indeed!!!!!!

Also, realize that there are citizens just like us in Russia, who want their own corrupt gov "cleansed"

all relative

Here is my 2cents
I am half Russian but all i have lived in the Western world most of my life so i understand both sides of the coin. Both have their reasons and fear but what it all comes down is different nations have different mentalities on many topics. While in the West i would say people are OK with Gay ,Russia is not ready mentally to take this road simply because the majority of Russians are deeply religious and taking into consideration of Soviet Union influence do noy expect rapid changes from Russia. Adding fuel to the fire the west seems to be over critical towards Russia as the western mass media machine seems to ignore the fact that in quite a few Muslim countries just by being gay will grant you a death penalty, but i am yet to see any news bombarding this topic which can not be said about Russia. Russians do not have problems with gay being gay or at least they try. But going on a March is a bit over the board for them. Thus being said i have quite a few gay friends and never had any problems with them, kindest people i ever met.

Rearding the concentration camps i very much doubt it will turn in anything else but for illegal immigrants.

The homosexuals i have to deal with are very annoying, maybe i should move to Russia.

reply to post by kaylaluv


I could have sworn that I said "and the distinctly freer more open society" by way of a comparison between the two forms of government.

By your response it would seems that you are intentionally distorting what I said.

If not - then please tell us what you meant. Thank you.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
Mods, can this thread be closed please? It's turned into another gay bashing thread, with a few of us being attacked for daring to try to fight back against it.

I should have known better I suppose, but whenever the topic of LGBT issues come up too many are silent and a small group of fanatics start preaching about "the gay agenda".

Rather that to request that threads be closed - Might you consider an appeal to the 'board' here at ATS for an "LGBT" forum of your own? That way nobody would be able to 'bash' gays with impunity anymore, and habitual gay trollers and bashers of Lesbians - Gays - Bi-Sexuals and Transvestites/Transexuals would immediately be reported to the Mod(s) covering the Forum and then all would run very smoothly - wouldn't it?

Oh.......one more thought - the LGBT Forum should definitely be monitored and watched very closely by Mods who fit one (or more) of the categories that define LGBT.