An Orthopedic Surgeon Explains Her Faith In Creation

reply to post by edmc^2


What else do you have that is close to explaining the current stage of humans, earth and overall life?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by edmc^2

 

What else do you have that is close to explaining the current stage of humans, earth and overall life?

Well let's start with logic and common sense.

Logic dictates that a design requires a designer. Thus it follows that the more complex the design the more intelligent the designer.

And for every intelligent design there's a purpose and meaning attached to it. This is what's behind Creation - a living Intelligent Designer and Creator.

Blind chance on the other hand will never create something that has meaning and purpose. This is evolution - no logic and no common sense required.


Makes sense?

Do you agree?

reply to post by edmc^2


Are Humans intelligently designed?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Are Humans intelligently designed?

Why of course even at this stage we're at - more than 6000 years far remove from the fall of man from perfection.

We're (still) intelligently designed in that we can fathom the mysteries of the universe and understand the laws that govern it. We're intelligently designed in that we have the capacity to express feelings. Express feelings with meaning and purpose.

Evolution on the other hand doesn't consider these into account. Thus when you say I love you to someone, evolution interprets it as just a chemical reaction of the brain with no real meaning and purpose.

So which one are you when you say I love you to your loved ones?

Are you a product of "dumb" evolution or an intelligent design by a Intelligent Designer?

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Are Humans intelligently designed?

Why of course even at this stage we're at - more than 6000 years far remove from the fall of man from perfection.

We're (still) intelligently designed in that we can fathom the mysteries of the universe and understand the laws that govern it. We're intelligently designed in that we have the capacity to express feelings. Express feelings with meaning and purpose.

Evolution on the other hand doesn't consider these into account. Thus when you say I love you to someone, evolution interprets it as just a chemical reaction of the brain with no real meaning and purpose.

So which one are you when you say I love you to your loved ones?

Are you a product of "dumb" evolution or an intelligent design by a Intelligent Designer?

edit on 7-8-2013 by edmc^2 because: intelligent design by a Intelligent Designer?

Feelings are learned, instincts are what you are looking for here...something that every human innately has at birth. Feelings on the other hand are a product of environment and brain chemistry....most are a learned behavior. Love is simply a word put to a feeling that humans have. If you can tell me that everyone that expresses love is feeling the same thing then you would be incorrect. People experience different feelings/emotions differently...as uniquely as a fingerprint. Some are joyous when death occurs and some mourn....different cultures and different learned responses are what change the feeling/emotion within the context of each individuals experience.

Yes I am a firm believer in evolution and believe we and other life evolve quite rapidly in terms of the age of the Earth. If intelligent design were to be thought of as fact then the designer would have to be the one changing the design each time and as far as I have seen there is no designer coming down to change what I posted earlier, or maybe we just missed him/her when he/she was here?

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
Speaking from someone who has grown up with a doctor for a father I can absolutely tell you that I would take a doctors word about evolution and the bible about as quickly as I would take the word of an actor/actress on politics. Just because a doctor says it must be divine work does not make it so....doctors are notorious for being very book smart and singular minded with no common sense nor outside the box thinking....not all mind you....just the majority.

So if evolution is not the answer then why are those that are indigenous to warmer/sunnier climates darker skinned? I would also like to have the good doctor explain these:

Peppered Moth

The evolution of the peppered moth over the last two hundred years has been studied in detail. Originally, the vast majority of peppered moths had light colouration, which effectively camouflaged them against the light-coloured trees and lichens which they rested upon. However, because of widespread pollution during the Industrial Revolution in England, many of the lichens died out, and the trees that peppered moths rested on became blackened by soot, causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation. At the same time, the dark-coloured, or melanic, moths, carbonaria, flourished because of their ability to hide on the darkened trees.

So am I to assume from your post that you believe the Earth is 6000 years old, or that man is only 6000 years old?

reply to post by Phoenix267


evolution has not been
tested or proved many times.

reply to post by spirited75


It seems you do not understand how in science to be a theory they're able to test it and see if it works or not. The English word theory and the scientific definition is very different.

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

Therefore it has been tested and confirm numerous times and is accepted by the science community.

I understand there is a lot of confusion about anything related to science. Because it takes years and years of study. A simple yes or no answer will not explain research or criticism for science. I did do my best to make a thread about evolution. Which I believe helps start your journey with understand evolutionary biology.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Source

Originally posted by spirited75
reply to post by Phoenix267

 

evolution has not been
tested or proved many times.

It has been tested and proven in other species....as I have referenced twice in this thread now. Intelligent Design on the other hand is based solely on faith and a book that says that is how it happened. Species evolve and adapt to their surroundings....if they did not then they would certainly die. Was every dog or cat breed a separate intelligent design from the last? So how is it that we, as humans, can breed two different ones together and form another breed? Is this intelligent design or evolution? If intelligent design then was it meant to be in the first place and planned all along that these two breeds would make another breed? This has been done numerous times over years in order to create breeds that were better adapted to certain activities or climates...does that mean that we as humans are more intelligent than the intelligent designer in the first place since we thought of it and created it?

reply to post by edmc^2


If i was designing humans, i would give them separate tubes for eating/drinking and breathing.. and possibly lungs or some sort that can breath underwater, considering the earth is also designed by it.

Why so much flaw? not so intelligence.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

Feelings are learned, instincts are what you are looking for here...something that every human innately has at birth. Feelings on the other hand are a product of environment and brain chemistry....most are a learned behavior. Love is simply a word put to a feeling that humans have. If you can tell me that everyone that expresses love is feeling the same thing then you would be incorrect. People experience different feelings/emotions differently...as uniquely as a fingerprint. Some are joyous when death occurs and some mourn....different cultures and different learned responses are what change the feeling/emotion within the context of each individuals experience. Yes I am a firm believer in evolution and believe we and other life evolve quite rapidly in terms of the age of the Earth.

SO what you're saying then is when you express your feeling towards someone, there's no real meaning and purpose to it other than a chemical reaction?

Correct?

In other words, when you say "I love you" to your mate - you don't really mean it and have no real purpose for saying it because you're brain learned it by chemical reaction? Just words with no real meaning,. A product of "dumb" evolution.

Correct?

Interesting. I wonder what will your spouse say or your kids will say or your parents will say that you don't really meant what you said.

I guess that's what evolution does to people who believe in them - unfeeling - it's all instinct. Just like an unthinking maggot.

As for this:

If intelligent design were to be thought of as fact then the designer would have to be the one changing the design each time and as far as I have seen there is no designer coming down to change what I posted earlier, or maybe we just missed him/her when he/she was here?

It is fact, but like I said, since we're far removed from perfection thus the imperfection of man is more pronounced now. Just like a precision engine that was tinkered with by someone who didn't know anything about engines - it will NOT function properly. But time will come when the designer will put things back together to it's original form, fit and function. The Intelligent Designer of the human body will fulfill his promise.


As for this:

So am I to assume from your post that you believe the Earth is 6000 years old, or that man is only 6000 years old?

I didn't say the earth is 6000 years old. Where did you get that idea? Don't you know that according to the latest calculations - based on the strata - the earth is around 4 billion years old? I'm sure you do.

But as for man - yes - we're about 6000 years based on recorded evidence.

So if you're convinced that you're a product of evolution, then life has no real meaning and purpose other than what we make to be, am I correct?

Rather, it both rolls and glides—an ingenious combination that gives the knee a greater range of movement, enabling us to walk, dance, skate, and do a host of other things. For some 40 years, researchers have tried to design an artificial knee

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Have they looked at a Rubik's cube?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by edmc^2

 

If i was designing humans, i would give them separate tubes for eating/drinking and breathing.. and possibly lungs or some sort that can breath underwater, considering the earth is also designed by it.

Why so much flaw? not so intelligence.

So I guess to you these beautiful babies are mistakes - yes?

You will re-design them, yes? Turn them into some kind human fish, yes?





Now I wonder why evolution didn't think of that when it was evolving man? Hmmm - probably it wasn't thinking. Yes?

Meh? I like them the way they are!!! Beautiful, cute and cuddly. It bring laughter and joy to the heart and brings meaning to life.

reply to post by edmc^2


No...meaning and purpose are learned actions to a chemical reaction in the brain. They are things we associate with the feelings based on experience. If you are born and I tell you I love you every day and hit you when I say it, you will feel pain and associate it with love until someone teaches you differently. The meaning and purpose behind and feeling are simply learned from experience.

And no, what you say is NOT fact. Please give me anything to debate the specific instance of evolution of the spotted moths I posted about. There are none and that is a fact. They evolved, so please explain that with your Intelligent Design....as I said, I don't recall a designer ever coming here to design the new species that pop up periodically or the differences within similar species.

And no....I was referring to your 6000 year statement as many bible/creationists believe the Earth is that old as well. So, if you believe the Earth is billions of years old based on scientific evidence then how is it you believe humans are only 6000 years old? Or was that sarcasm?

Again...creationists have a book, a novel, that says it happened that way and base the belief on faith. Evolution is based on science and study. If you are a creationist and believe that further study of something is no needed because you just believe then why study anything at all? Or is the bible the only piece of literature that should be taken at it's word and everything else written is flawed? As far as I know even the bible was written by flawed humans.

Since there was no actual link for this in the OP I decided to look around for one on my own. The only references to this were in Jehovah's Witness publications such as this one... www.jw.org...

or this other religious site... illustrationstoencourage.wordpress.com...

The source material doesn't lend it any more credence than the OP. I'm not implying that Im smarter or know more than this woman, I'm not a surgeon and wouldn't try to talk you into letting me perform procedures on you. But there's no point in trying to argue against it either. Theists have their world view and I'm all for you living a life of ignorance is bliss if that's what makes you and your loved ones happy. I prefer to seek out answers in lieu of blind faith and obedience.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

No...meaning and purpose are learned actions to a chemical reaction in the brain. They are things we associate with the feelings based on experience. If you are born and I tell you I love you every day and hit you when I say it, you will feel pain and associate it with love until someone teaches you differently. The meaning and purpose behind and feeling are simply learned from experience.

Interesting take. So if a person says "I love you every day and hit you when I say it" then either he is insane or derange because no sane or normal person will do such a thing. And the one receiving such treatment will become challenged and most definitely will NOT see it as love but hate. NO human will see it as love because it's in our nature to differentiate feelings. But then again if one view these things as just chemical reactions then I guess one can be capable of such an evil thing. Fortunately, majority of people in the world have morals whether they believe in a God or not. They have morals not because it is a learned thing but because it's human nature to exhibit such feeling. In other words, it's part of our makeup. It's natural as a newborn baby's smile upon hearing her mother's voice. It's natural as a warm hug from a dear loved one. But you're entitled to what you believe and I hope you don't apply such twisted reasoning to your fellow man as they will react to you in kind. It's human nature.

And no, what you say is NOT fact. Please give me anything to debate the specific instance of evolution of the spotted moths I posted about. There are none and that is a fact. They evolved, so please explain that with your Intelligent Design....as I said, I don't recall a designer ever coming here to design the new species that pop up periodically or the differences within similar species.

Sure, I can provide facts that you can debate but as for the moths, did it evolved into something else? If it did, I must have missed it. Can you please let me know what it evolved into, because as far as I know it just changed colors like a chameleon changing colors?

[qoute]And no....I was referring to your 6000 year statement as many bible/creationists believe the Earth is that old as well. So, if you believe the Earth is billions of years old based on scientific evidence then how is it you believe humans are only 6000 years old? Or was that sarcasm?

No, not sarcasm, but fact - based on recorded human history being around 5000 years ago which is very close to the Biblical record of 6000 years ago. And yes, unlike the Young Earth movement, I do believe based on present understanding - the earth is around 4BYO.

Again...creationists have a book, a novel, that says it happened that way and base the belief on faith.

No, not a novel but an inspired book from the Creator and our belief is not based on faith alone but on solid facts!

For instance, when did science found that the earth is being suspended in space (by a force we now know as gravity)? Was it in 19th/20th century?

Yet the Bible writers knew of this fact more than 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm...

Another, when did science confirmed that the earth is round? Was it 19th/20th century?
Yet the Bible writers knew this fact more than 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm...

Another, when did science figured out the DNA can be written in codes? Was it around the 20th century?

Yet the Bible writers knew this fact around 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm...

So like I said it's not faith alone but facts! But do you know that faith is not real faith if not based on facts! It's called blind faith, just like evolution is - it is based on blind chance.

But you say:

Evolution is based on science and study.

Sure but don't forget, it's also based on lots and lots of assumptions and on incomplete data.

If you are a creationist and believe that further study of something is no needed because you just believe then why study anything at all?

To the contrary, we study nature in order to understand the meaning and purpose behind it. Why the Creator created it that way. The more we learn about nature the more we understand the Creator. Perfect example is given by the OP.

Evolution on the other hand is still stuck on the mud (so to speak), still looking for the answer on the origins of life. How the so called "the selfish gene" evolved from a "mud" into single membrane-less celled "organism" to its current forms. Proponents of it are still theorizing of another theory to prove the first theory is a probable theory. Oh well, to each its own.
...

reply to post by Vasa Croe


...cont...

Or is the bible the only piece of literature that should be taken at it's word and everything else written is flawed? As far as I know even the bible was written by flawed humans.

No there are scientific publications that are pure genius and wonderfully written but they are just that - science books. On the other hand, sure the writers of the Bible were flawed men just like we are, but the difference is, they were GUIDED by the Creator himself. Thus what they wrote was not really theirs but the Creator's - Jehovah God.
Evidence to this is overwhelming just like the three examples I mentioned above and many more.
And the more we study nature (with God in mind) the more amazing creation becomes!!!
Praise Jah!

Ciao.

reply to post by Phoenix267


evolution is not proven.
it is a theory, a guess.

evolution cannot explain the
sudden appearance of thousands
of different fully developed life forms.

has no visible proof of the evolution
of a bird from a land animal.

evolution is as much of a religion of faith as Christianity.

evoultion does not follow the second law of thermodynamics.

i understand that your faith in evolutionary science
requires more faith than my belief in creation.

reply to post by spirited75


Did you read the information I provided? I would have to say no! Because I clearly point out what the word "theory" means in science and how differs from the English translation. If you're really interested in learning about evolution than read the thread I provided it offers loads of information.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by edmc^2

Sure, I can provide facts that you can debate but as for the moths

We need citations, please post them, are you expecting us to just believe you?

No, not sarcasm, but fact - based on recorded human history being around 5000 years ago which is very close to the Biblical record of 6000 years ago.

Fact?...Your trying to confuse recorded history with human history. This works for the the gullible star giver, but most are not as easily fooled.
It's proven we share a relatively recent common ancestor, and our ancestors have interbred with Neanderthals as well.
We are genetically nearly identical to chimpanzees. A strong genetic similarity to other hominids like Neanderthals is more than simply obvious, it's predicted by evolutionary theory, one that has been validated by genetic evidence.

did it evolved into something else? If it did, I must have missed it. Can you please let me know what it evolved into, because as far as I know it just changed colors like a chameleon changing colors?

We have observed new species differentiating from parent species. We've directly observed it, both in the wild and in the lab.

I know that you're going to respond by saying that these are all examples of "microevolution" because a fly didn't turn into a dog, or cat into a fish. But the entirety of the micro/macroevolution distinction is nothing more than an arbitrary rationalization, a way to dismiss unwanted evidence and restrict acceptable evidence.

No, not a novel but an inspired book from the Creator and our belief is not based on faith alone but on solid facts! For instance, when did science found that the earth is being suspended in space (by a force we now know as gravity)? Was it in 19th/20th century? Yet the Bible writers knew of this fact more than 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm... Another, when did science confirmed that the earth is round? Was it 19th/20th century? Yet the Bible writers knew this fact more than 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm... Another, when did science figured out the DNA can be written in codes? Was it around the 20th century? Yet the Bible writers knew this fact around 3000 years ago. Now how did they know this bit of information if the Bible is just a novel? Hmmm... So like I said it's not faith alone but facts! But do you know that faith is not real faith if not based on facts! It's called blind faith, just like evolution is - it is based on blind chance.

Wow...What a bunch of rubbish.
This is what happens when deeply held beliefs are directly contradicted by evidence. You automatically try to find a way to make the evidence compatible with the deeply held belief.

The flat Earth viewpoint in the Bible is well documented, there are plenty of references in canon, 1 Enoch provides a clear description of a flat Earth.
This is just one example, your wrong on every other count as well.

Evidence to this is overwhelming just like the three examples I mentioned above and many more.

You have trouble understanding the word "evidence". The Bible has stories but no evidence. In order to be evidence something else must corroborate it. Nothing else corroborates the Bible, all other evidence is derived from the Bible. There is no evidence independent of the Bible.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


"An Orthopedic Surgeon Explains Her Faith In Creation Justifies Her Delusional Belief"

Fixed the heading.