Pope urges 'mutual respect' with Islam; While Iran Presidents threaten Israel

reply to post by logical7

If there had been a drone strike published in the news at the same time, I certainly would have included THAT, probably INSTEAD of the Iran leadership's threat to Israel.

So i see that their is a need to show respect for Islam and lead by example. Right? Maybe the Pope was equally addressing the christians to show respect to Islam but that would be too much to ask for..

Yes, the Pope is addressing everyone, but he is a Catholic, and not all Christians even 'believe' Catholics are Christians (they are completely wrong about that) - so, he won't be reaching those people, for sure.

Muslims are upset about Israeli atrocities? Pot/kettle. What is so awful about the Jews having a small, TINY piece of land in that region? I understand the persecution of the Palestinians, and I also understand that the Arab world was devastatingly humiliated by their "loss" halfway through the last century.

You should have figured out by now, surely, that I am a pacifist, and will denounce ANY violence done by ANY people against others, ESPECIALLY when it is based on RELIGION. Trying to say this isn't about religion is silly.
I've seen small children spewing bigotry and hate - both "Christian" kids - like the one at the pulpit saying horrible things about "fags" and hell -- and Palestinian ones being told to recite "We hate the Jews" when they're barely able to put together sentences!

Also, the Dalai Lama is one I'd expect to urge "mutual respect." Haven't seen much of him in the headlines lately.

I think I'll go look on his site to see what he has to say these days.

Yep! He had something to say - in India. Just made a new thread if y'all wanna check it out.
link to his statements

Secularism does not favour one god over another, rather manifests as a belief in a supreme power present in all humanity, said spiritual leaders Dalai Lama and Dada J P Vaswani of the Sadhu Vaswani Mission, as they came together on one stage on Sunday as part of the week-long celebrations of Dada Vaswani's 95th birthday.

link to new thread regarding his statements

So, the Pope AND the Dalai Lama promote peace and tolerance. Well done, gentlemen, well done!! Now, let's just focus on THOSE messages, and leave war behind. mmkay?

reply to post by wildtimes

Muslims are upset about Israeli atrocities? Pot/kettle. What is so awful about the Jews having a small, TINY piece of land in that region?

Muslims are upset about a lot of things maybe because its them and their brothers & sisters that are dying! And they see very clearly what is causing it.
Whats wrong with a tiny little malignant tumour wanting to get established in a lung..
Was their no place in Europe or North America to give a tiny land to US' beloved israel?

Why exactly are you calling muslims "pot"? I'l like to know.

Palestinian ones being told to
recite "We hate the Jews" when they're barely able to put together
sentences!

thats a reaction, its very important not to forget that. Its ofcourse not right. We hate the "Zionists". Hate them because they are hurting us. If they stop we will have no reason to hate them.
They also don't understand peace or justice nor they respect the UN. We also see that the Western governments in general turn a blind eye to it all.
Muslims are not blind to world politics being played in their lands with their blood.
If you hate/dislike islam and mistrust muslims because 3000 people were killed and you were "told" that muslim terrorists did it then how much hate should muslims have against the west and mistrust of all westerners when millions have been killed??
Pot/kettle?
you just condemning the actions of your government is not enough, you should also go a step ahead and realise that what mulims are doing is a reaction to the actions that you condemn. You perceiving muslim reactions as a new action and believing that its their religion who teaches them violence is completely wrong!

reply to post by logical7

you just condemning the actions of your government is not enough,

Oh, well excuse the hell out of me!

you should also go a step ahead and realise that what mulims are doing is a reaction to the actions that you condemn.

I DO REALIZE IT!

You perceiving muslim reactions as a new action and believing that its their religion who teaches them violence is completely wrong!

Tell it TO THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT!

Why is it that Muslims can't be PROactive rather than REactive?

If THEY would stop being terrorists, THE ATTACKS WOULD STOP. So, who's to blame, log? ANYONE WHO PERPETUATES VIOLENCE, for WHATEVER REASON. And it IS TOO about religion!! Stop with the incessant claiming it is not. Your ideological rhetoric belongs in a university classroom - or a children's "mosque school" - or in POLITICS. Convince the leaders of Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Hammas, Hezbollah, and all the other related thug groups, and you'll have solved the world's problems.

Violence begets MORE VIOLENCE, every time - and POUTING and throwing tantrums and pressure cooker bombs at it does NOT STOP IT.

Originally posted by logical7
Muslims are upset about a lot of things maybe because its them and their brothers & sisters that are dying! And they see very clearly what is causing it.

Yeah .. other muslims.
Statistics of Muslims Killing Muslims

CT has posted a set of statistics that demonstrates the real violence against Muslims, it is not Jews, Christians or even America that is leading the pack in Muslim Genocide, but rather other Muslims. These numbers (almost 10 million killed by other Muslims) defy rationality and surely anyone with half a brain can see where the real problem lies. Islam may or may not be a peaceful religion, but the people who dominate the religion and are the face that the world sees as representation of the religion, surely are far from peaceful.

National Review Online - That Muslims Killed by the West Lie

And there’s a third lie to this claim of Muslims as victims of the West: Nearly every one of the tens of thousands of Muslims killed in the last few years has been killed by other Muslims, in Syria and Iraq in particular.

There is something of great significance to be learned from this. In the Muslim world today, it is hatred of the West — not love of (or even concern for) fellow Muslims — that animates Muslim atrocities and terror against the West. Just as it is Arab hatred of Israel rather than Arab love of fellow Arabs that animates the Arab world.

Every Muslim and every Western leftist who perpetrates the lie that Islamists commit acts of terror because the West kills Muslims is aiding and abetting that terror.

Al Qaida kills Eight Times More Muslims than Non Muslims

Tribune - Yes, Muslims Kill Muslims

Even after thousands of people have been killed in suicide bombings by religious extremists, a large number of Pakistanis still have misplaced sympathies for extremists or fail to hold them accountable. This mindset needs to be challenged and the myth that “Muslims don’t kill other Muslims” needs to be debunked once and for all. Otherwise, if this attitude of denying the problem and deflecting the blame on RAW, CIA, BLA, Mossad, etc continues, there is no plausible way that an effective counter extremist movement can be conceived in Pakistan.

It is a sad fact, but Muslims have been killing Muslims from the early days of Islam. Out of the first four caliphs, three had Muslims involved in their murder, two of them were killed in a mosque and one was murdered while offering his prayers. The first Islamic Civil War, also called the first Fitna, started in 656, just 14 years after the Prophet Mohammad’s (pbuh) death and lasted for 5 years. A number of battles were fought during this period, in which scores of Muslims were killed by other Muslims. Unfortunately, there is precedent for Muslims killing Muslim in Islamic history.

If one wants to ignore history and just look at the present, there are still numerous examples of Muslims killing other Muslims in Pakistan. Recently, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for an attack in Quetta that killed at least 26 people and injured over 60 in two suicide attacks, targeting the residence of the deputy chief of the paramilitary force. If one goes a little further in the past (like a month), the TTP claimed responsibility for a devastating suicide attack on a mosque in Khyber Agency that killed over 50 people. Most recently, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has reached a new low by attacking a school bus, which killed four children. This attack was considered to be revenge against the residents of Kala Khel for forming a lashkar against the TTP. The large number of occurrences of such events makes it difficult to deny that ‘Muslims’ are carrying them out.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by logical7


I posted this in another thread, but I want you to be aware of it as well, so:

[quoting my other post]For now, I'm going outside to read about

A Deadly Misunderstanding: A congressman's quest to bridge the Muslim-Christian divide

- that I picked up on the library 'discards' shelf ( ) for a buck (yep, ONE DOLLAR) the other day.
2008, written by a former Congressman - and it talks about how Islam and Christianity fell into this chaos by way of mistranslations.

I'm just so tired of the violence-begotten violence....and the 'finger-pointing'. Everyone blames everyone else for "atrocities", and just keep perpetuating them REACTIVELY, when what we need is PROactive responses,

NOT

MORE

WAR.

Mr. Siljander builds a compelling case that any faithful reading of religion and its teachings should serve to unite, not divide. --H.E. Ban Ki Moon
Secretary General of the United Nations

"A book of enormous courage and spiritual power ... essential reading for every Christian, Muslim and Jew of good will around the world.
- The Washington Times

[/quote of my other post]
in in this thead by Charles1953. If you REALLY want to orchestrate peace, perhaps you could participate in threads like THAT ONE, instead of just bashing others for "misconstruing" 'essential Islam'.

It doesn't MATTER at this point which "Islam" is "real" or "fake," logical7, as we're all sliding off the SAME GODDAMNED CLIFF!

The Pope is an semi-authoritative puppet who has been ordered to reset the Church's position on several important secular and spiritual matters (gays, etc). These ancient POV have estranged so many from the Catholics and non-Catholics from the Roman Catholic faith that there are virtually gerrymandering the world's populace out of dire necessity to survive.

He's a politician.

The only reason to pay any attention whatsoever to this red-noseless clown is to follow the rearrangement of the plastic, flexible Catholic dogma.Which they will gladly do to retain and increase control, support their wealth machine and prop up their diminishing power base.

He makes me projectile vomit, frankly.

Originally posted by colbe
wildtimes posts a lot of anti-Catholic threads, it gets old. Maybe she does it for the attention, for sure wildtimes knows nothing of the faith.

colbe posts a lot of anti-Catholic threads, it gets old. Posting thread after thread of fake 'visionaries' who have been condemned by the Catholic church. This is against Catholic teaching.

Pray for her conversion.

Pray for your own conversion, Colbe.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
There will never be a perfect time for the pope to make a statement of peace and respect to the Muslim people. That part of the world is always in chaos. Ya' know?? He's just gotta' say it and hope that something sticks (which I doubt anything will)

The greater question is "Do you think the Pope is primarily driven by peace or positioning the Church for more power (by appealing to larger numbers of Catholics and non-Cathos)"?

If the former, I have no idea what to tell you.

If the latter, then he's a bad joke of poor taste.

reply to post by TheOd

I think that THIS POPE is a man of peace and who is trying to walk the walk.
Others ... I can't tell ya'. I wasn't fond of Benedict at all.
But THIS pope .... so far everything spiritual he's been doing is hopeful to me.

Originally posted by colbe
wildtimes posts a lot of anti-Catholic threads, it gets old. Maybe she does it for the attention, for sure wildtimes knows nothing of the faith.

No one who lives in Western civilization could possibly know "nothing of the [Catholic] faith". When you reach like that, the stretching of your arms makes you look like a baboon.

When God shows her personally Catholicism is THE faith (Rev 6:15-17, 1 Cor 3:13)....blah blah literalist tosh/bollucks

You Catholics. When you pass over, you're going to land in the Hell that you rightfully created for yourselves. Waiting eternally for the Second Coming until you realize that life is continuous and Jesus, as he said, is within you.

Now, fall to your knees and pray in earnest and with thankfulness for reincarnation.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by TheOd

 

I think that THIS POPE is a man of peace and who is trying to walk the walk.

Which part of him is walking and which is being pushed? How does a man rise to the pinnacle of authority (Obama, Pope, whomever). By playing the political power game.

There has been a swing in the Catholic Church's positioning and power core. He's nothing more than a representative of that swing.

Personally, I don't think spirituality and power-pinnacling harbor together well at all. Neither did Christ btw.

reply to post by wildtimes

If THEY would stop being terrorists, THE ATTACKS WOULD STOP.

Really?
How about first establishing that the terrorist acts that you are refering to were really done by muslims?
Try youtubing ripple effect and vids of boston bombing and even the woolwich attack and you may realise more,
i guess it was 1993 when wtc was bombed and killed 6 people not enough to pass anti-terror legislation then the oklahoma bombing and voila! Legislation is passed. Doesnt take much brain to figure out who is the bombings benefiting and who it is fooling

Convince the leaders of Al-
Qaeda, the Taliban, Hammas,
Hezbollah, and all the other related thug groups, and you'll have solved
the world's problems.

Al-Qaeda was formed to fight US foreign policy and interference in ME. Taliban came to power to fight Soviet invasion.
Hamas and Hezbollah are fighting Israeli terrorism.
Has hamas, hezbollah or taliban ever attacked any western country?
Al-Qaeda is alleged to have done 9/11 but no proof provided!
So your whole rhetoric is based on your trust that your government doesnt lie

reply to post by logical7

Dear logical7,

You've said so much since I've been away that I'm afraid I'll never catch up. Let me try with a partial answer and see if we can go from there.

Please allow me to tell you a little about myself. I am sometimes stupid, often ignorant, but never dishonest.

I am a Catholic and appreciate the Pope's reminder (for it is nothing new) to respect Muslims and all other people. I see all humans as worthy of respect as God's creatures. Anyone searching for truth about spiritual matters should also be assisted and encouraged. Those who have found God and practice His teachings of peace, love, and prayer are especially close to me. Not surprisingly, those who are Christians and Catholics are my brothers, inspirations and teachers.

On the subject of the "Chosen" people, I think even Islam teaches that Abraham and his descendents were "chosen." Just as, I think, Islam believes the Jews were chosen to prepare the way for Mohammed, Christians believe they were set aside to prepare the way for Jesus.

As far as their role today and in prophecy I'm not so sure. This is an area in which I am both stupid and ignorant. I certainly don't speak here for Christians, but I'll give you another answer you may not like. I don't give it much thought at all. I don't believe that going against Israel is going against God, and I don't happen to care much about who is living where when the world ends. Perhaps I should, but the New Testament and the Church gives me my "marching orders," so to speak, and I'm busy enough trying to save my own soul and helping others if I can.

Anyone in a position of authority or in a special relation to God, who sins and leads others astray is in for more than double punishment. But I am unwilling to be the cause of their punishment, that is for God. Who am I to judge a man's heart?

The idea that "Might is Right" may very well be a bad one, but it is accepted in the area of settling national borders. Mohammed and his followers thought it was just peachy to sweep through North Africa and Europe, conquering cities and peoples as they went. Islam thought stealing Jerusalem was a good idea, the Crusades thought stealing it back was just as good an idea. The US - Canada border was settled by war, as were many other countries' who couldn't come to a peaceful agreement.

God does not play favourites we muslims know this by Qur'an.

I don't have any trouble with that. Each is judged individually.

Qur'an tells me to speak the truth, stand up against wrong even if its against myself or my family. Also God says not to accept oppression for the fear of death because its God who has already ordained the time and manner of death for each and none can escape it.

This opens an important line of discussion, but let's save it for another exchange. First, what do you think about this response?

With respect,
Charles1952

Dear charles1952

One day I hope that you will come to your senses about Catholicism. When you do, you will lose the concept of punishment, especially deity-driven, and replace it with education, self-driven.

Until then,

The Od

reply to post by TheOd

Dear TheOd,

I thank you for your concern for me, I'm blessed by people who wish me well. But I am confused by your prescription for my well-being.

You'd like me to pursue self-driven education? I've spent 10 years getting various degrees and another four teaching. Some people I find least attractive are extremely well educated. Education doesn't seem to be the solution, that is found in your heart and will.

And give up Catholicism? Why? I've spent some small amount of time looking at ways of believing in, and relating to God. This way makes the most sense to me. And give up the idea of punishment? I'd like to, but that implies giving up the idea of reward as well. If everyone is rewarded identically, then what does "reward" mean?

As far as your comments about the Church and the Pope are concerned, I'm a little surprised. I would have thought that an enlightened peron would be able to offer love, respect, and assistance to any choosing the wrong path. As I say, I'm surprised at your anger and hate.

But I may be misinterpreting you, I often do. Write back if you care to.

With respect,
Charles1952

Dear charles1952,

The education that you need to pursue is one that will advance you spiritually. This is why we reincarnate, why we live (primarily) in the material. It has nothing to do with degrees, formal schooling and such earthly reflections.

Catholicism binds you to punishment-reward instead of self-judgment and adjustment; a resurrection-based theology instead of life continuous without lying around in a grave waiting for a Redeemer who will never [need] to second come. Why is it that Jesus told the thief "I will see you in Heaven this very day?

Until you shake those -insert any religion- binds, you will continue on a non-spiritual path that is leading you purposefully in the wrong direction. As Jesus said "I am within - seek him there.

I am not hateful of the Pope, I hate what the Pope stands for as I do what the Church stands for. All religions for that matter are human-made obstacles to drawing close to the Creator. They serve primarily those who propagate them.

Why listen to power-hungry men when the spirits have spoken directly to us about the afterlife, how to spiritually ascend and the illicit nature of religion?

I suggest you start with Leslie Flint.

Lovingly,

The Od

Originally posted by TheOd

Until you shake those -insert any religion- binds, you will continue on a non-spiritual path that is leading you purposefully in the wrong direction. As Jesus said "I am within - seek him there.

I am not hateful of the Pope, I hate what the Pope stands for as I do what the Church stands for. All religions for that matter are human-made obstacles to drawing close to the Creator. They serve primarily those who propagate them.

Why listen to power-hungry men when the spirits have spoken directly to us about the afterlife, how to spiritually ascend and the illicit nature of religion?

You are handling it better than me. . I normally use the bad cop routine but I do not think I can make it work well. Thank you for being and this Pope might be better than think he is. The duality here creates duality in me and I go nuts. Below a little song that you might find interesting.

Appreciate the Counting Crows.