D.C. Council votes to Force Walmart to pay "living wage"--50% over minimum wage.

Originally posted by doobydoll

My goodness, where did you get all that from?

Never once have I said that I think a burger flipper or mail-man should be making the same money as you, not once. Not once have I said I want a society where no-one excels, nor have I said that everyone should get the same.

I have only said that I think minimum wage should be increased to where unskilled workers can get off benefits and pay their own way. But you seem to think it's ok for working people to be paid so little that the taxpayer has to top up their pay. And it should be Walmart paying this money, not the taxpayer.

No, as that provides no motivation for someone to go from burger flipper to manager.
Plus, that just raises prices on the burger I am going to buy. I don't see a raise in my pay, to compensate for the higher cost of the product.

I bet you have never run a business.

Originally posted by doobydoll
In an hour of their work, they work just as hard as you do in an hour of your work. Work is still work - theirs is just different to yours.

No, no they don't.
The cashier does not deal with the things I deal with in an hour. Nor do they have the same tasks I do.

Originally posted by doobydoll

They probably would work 10 hour days if they had the opportunity, but minimum wage earners are usually on zero-hour contracts and are lucky to get 10 hours a week at times.

So, why would they stay in that job/career???
Hmmmm, maybe that is the motivation needed to get a better job through hard work, school and such.

Nah, lets just blame society and throw more money at people. Oh, and allow the Govt to control just another facet of life as we know it.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I have never said I want the same income as you because it isn't true, I don't want to make the same as you, sincerely.

Great. So stop trying to relate what I do and pay, to someone working a low skilled job.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I have never been very academic - don't get me wrong, I was bright at school but I was just not very good at exams, I don't know why (I always say qualifications don't show you're brainy, they just show you're good at exams). Also I never had an opportunity to stay on at school, my dad died when I was 9 and I was the eldest of 3, when I was 16 my mother needed me to go to work.

And that means what to me??? Should I therefore be forced to suffer alongside with you???
Um, no.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I certainly don't want to rip people like you down, It's just that I can't understand why you people would not want low-paid people off benefits and paying for their own living. I can't understand why people whom are successful would want to keep allowing their hard-earned taxes to top up Walmart's below-poverty wages.

I want everyone to be successful. Just not at my expense.
My taxes shouldn't be going up, to give to others. Nor should they go up, to help right off for Walmart. They should be taking care of themselves and stop picking my pocket.

Originally posted by doobydoll
You're the one who wants to keep a section of society down and wallowing in crap by defending poverty wages, thereby forcing working people to be dependent on the taxpayers to live, only to be vilified by you and your type afterwards for briefly peeping out of their life of crap, and daring to ask for help.

Uh, so I said I want an underclass of people?? Or have I stated I want all people to succeed?

Originally posted by doobydoll
You haven't outright said it but you don't have to, your negative words reveal much. You can't disguise it and it's obvious.

Oh, so you are assuming something, interpreted by your "feelings". No wonder people are doing so poorly.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I don't worry what you have, not at all. I am sincere when I say I am happy that you want for nothing and are successful, and I'm glad you are happy with your materially-successful life. Personally, I don't crave money or luxuries, it isn't the be all and end all, not in my life.

Now that is a crock. You care enough about it, that you are worried about what some have, and what others don't.

Originally posted by doobydoll
I can't go out and buy a 'clever' gene to pass exams with, and that's what I need to have a chance at being successful - in this life anyway. But it's pointless worrying about not being very clever, so I don't

I don't have such things either.
I studied and work my butt off.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

A Metal Working Mill ≠ A distribution warehouse

That's totally uncalled for, you should be ashamed of that comment.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

It's easy to follow the rules when you create them. Ask any 4 year old on the playground.
I'm holding both responsible. Corporations shouldn't be buying votes, and politians shouldn't be accepting.

So, the answer then, is to have bigger and more Govt?
Why not actually expect more from our elected officials, and worry less about the companies trying to bribe them.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

True, but the word "faith" is synonymous with Abrahamism, and considering most Conservatives are Christians, I took a guess. Though we both know I wasn't wrong.

I said faith. You assumed incorrectly. But, don't admit that you were wrong, as that might actually show some form of something................

Originally posted by Garkiniss
Working ≠ Stealing. Working = Earning. Anyone working a full week at a job, no matter what rung they stand on, shouldn't make less than a living wage. Period.

Why is that??? So, with the increase to the bottom, then the middle and the top should be raised as well. Raise the whole house, and not just the basement.
So, the goal posts gets moved for everyone, thus creating the same situation.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

If a worker spends 30-40hrs per week working at my house and they walk away with enough to pay his bills I wouldn't consider it stealing. I'd consider it pay for a hard day's work.

And that means what to my statement of taxes and stealing???
My taxes don't go towards someone doing work, for the extra handout. They didn't repair my house, or work in my company.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

You're either trolling or just plain hypocritical. If you think it's fair that someone working 30-40hrs per week doesn't earn enough to live on, then you CAN NOT be mad that they ask for assistance. Corporations like Walmart create that increase in taxes.

How is that.
Just because they don't make the deemed amount, I should be made to suffer??? By Govt theft no less.
I didn't ask for assistance when I was working my way up from nothing. I guess that is too much to expect these days. You know, for someone to build themselves up, without have to have something taken from someone else.

Originally posted by Garkiniss
Not if the jobs don't exist. Not if they're shipped over seas chasing Bush's outsource tax breaks.

Oh please. There are many jobs out there. You and others, like Unions, are just pissed that the new jobs requires something other then the low skilled person to stand there and push a button.
I guess by your logic, the guy that drove his wagon around neighborhoods selling blocks of ice got a raw deal.
*Shakes fist in the air* Damn you GW for that.....
Oh, I thought that Presidents are the ones in control??
Let me guess, it is different, right?

Originally posted by Garkiniss
People can learn more. They can apply for student loans, take an apprenticeship, learn a trade. That's if Walmart and other Corps haven't run them out of town.

Run who out of town? The plumber or electrician?? I still see people getting jobs at the local places, even with Walmart around.

Originally posted by Garkiniss
That's if outsourcing hasn't pushed them overseas.

So, you can outsource plumbing?? Your grasping at this point.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

It still takes years to learn these trades, and there still aren't enough positions in those fields to cover 30% of the country's population. Meanwhile, people need help.

I did it. Why can't they do it as well??
Oh, I forgot. Walmarts fault and GW.

Originally posted by Garkiniss

You're talking about putting a bandaid on a tumor.

The tumor is Govt. I want it cut back. You want it grown and in control of the body.

reply to post by pavil


its fine.
i was just trying to make a point.
i come off as harsh but my feeling bad for people only goes so far.
i wish everyone made a good enough wage to pay their bills and then some. there are numerous reasons as to why they dont. everyones situation is different.

i just feel that if i and others that work where i work can grind it out cause we have responsibilities then others can to.
the whole 'there are no jobs' out there only goes so far. because there are jobs.
the 'cant afford college' goes just as far cause lack of a degree does not mean you will make peanuts.

i cant help but feel from the experiences i have, from my vantage point that a lot of these low payed, 'low skill workers simply refuse to try and do better.

i see it all the time.

reply to post by Garkiniss

You're right. That is enough for a fresh out of high school worker. Now try living on 20K when you've got a family to feed, a house to pay for, commuting costs, utilities, insurance, and child care. Child Care can run upwards of $10,000.00-$15,000.00 annually. There goes half of that 50-75% of that 20K.
In most communities, child care equals the cost of rent.

If you are making only 20K a year you should NOT be starting a family. You should also not be trying to buy a house, or be accumulating debt with no way of paying it off.

I can sympathize with people who have a family and are working a minimum wage job, but those jobs are not and have never been specifically geared towards people trying to raise a family and live a middle class life style.

reply to post by CardiffGiant


It wasn't you I was referring to, it was Gark's comment.

macman
You're choosing to ignore my answers in my posts to you and I don't want to continuously repeat myself, so it is pointless debating with you. You have a blinkered and single-minded view of life and people, because you choose to be that way.

That's what greed and avarice does to you.

reply to post by pavil


i know.
just saying his comment is fine. it dont matter.
thanks for sticking up though

reply to post by sirhumperdink


Yes, these same things have plagued humanity in the past.... and history ALWAYS seems to repeat.....

This sounds terribly familiar....

The exact reason that Roman coinage sustained constant debasement is not known, but the most common theories involve inflation, trade with India, which drained silver from the Mediterranean world, and inadequacies in state finances. It is clear from papyri that the pay of the Roman soldier increased from 900 sestertii a year under Augustus to 2000 sestertii a year under Septimius Severus and the price of grain more than tripled indicating that fall in real wages and a moderate inflation occurred during this time.[10]

hmmmmm....

I wonder why people would think that debasing currency would be a good thing....

Without a constant influx of precious metals from an outside source, and with the expense of continual wars, it would seem reasonable that coins might be debased to increase the amount that the government could spend. A simpler possible explanation for the debasement of coinage is that it allowed the state to spend more than it had. By decreasing the amount of silver in its coins, Rome could produce more coins and "stretch" its budget. As time progressed, the trade deficit of the west, because of its buying of grain and other commodities, led to a currency drainage in Rome.

Or continual wars.... or pretending like you have more money than you actually do....

Its a good thing that we have never heard of these things in our history right?

en.wikipedia.org...


"Let no man tell you it could not be worse," he told one audience. "It could be so much worse that these days now, distressing as they are, would look like veritable prosperity." Herbert Hoover

BTW... That was Hoover's defense for keeping the gold standard....

Originally posted by doobydoll

macman
You're choosing to ignore my answers in my posts to you and I don't want to continuously repeat myself, so it is pointless debating with you. You have a blinkered and single-minded view of life and people, because you choose to be that way.

That's what greed and avarice does to you.

edit on 2-8-2013 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

What greed?
Oh, I get it. You calling me greedy is your definition of me wanting to keep what I earned.

Okay then, ya got me. I am greedy. Oh shucks. I shall go cry in the corner.

Or, maybe now I am motivated to hire a CPA that will drop my taxes from around 35% to 15% and keep more of what I earned,
Thanks, I have been looking for a solid reason to do that. I can thank you for it.

If you want to debate this any further, let me know. Or, just slink back under the Progressive rock and avoid being challenged on your BS.

seems to me that i am only a few that think how i do.

i and a couple others have said that for the people that are not making it on their walmart or mcdonalds salary, maybe a lifestyle change should be in order. i am pretty frugal with many things, less so than others and i dont even have to be for financial reasons. thats just the way i am.

in these post and the next i will use myself and people i personally know as examples cause i know the details.

1st though, in my opinion i feel like a great deal of these workers feel they are entitled to things that i dont think they are. in this thread and articles i have read about certain places striking i feel like certain workers dont get their way and they cant handle it and decide to strike or something to 'demand' this or that when i think it simply comes down to their attitude in general.

maybe i am just from a different school than this new breed of worker(i am but 35).
back to the example of the mcdonalds worker and the extra hours. this has been bugging me for a solid day now. for those that skimmed over it. one of the mcdonalds strikers that are asking/demanding $15 an hour gave a short interview. one complaint was he cant support his kids on $7+ an hour(forget the exact figure). he said he had asked the manager a couple times for more hours and then the manager called him in on saturday. he then said he felt the manager used him by doing that cause he could have been home spending with his kids.
then, a member here defended him. i simply dont understand that.

if YOU ask for more hours and you get them i dont see how you are being used. i mean, he asked for them.
was it because he wanted extra hours on a day he was already working? missed the kids? what
to me that is an attitude that wont get you far in a job that requires more responsibility/skill/reliability. am i wrong?
what is wrong with an employer 'using' you by calling you in on your day off when you are needed especially if you requested hours?

i cant count how many times this has happened to me and countless others at my job. i get called in all the time on my days off. it is not rare at all for me to have a saturday off only for them to come t shifts end on thurs or fri and say i have to work sat. do i like it? of course not. am i happy about it? of course not. do i work the hours? of course i do. i have had things planned that i have then had to miss because of this.
in my eyes it is part of the job. its your job, your services are required so you go.
if i complain too much or dont show then opportunities for me in that company might stop coming my way. they might start to see me as unreliable and replace me. why would i risk that?

during certain months when it is 'slow' we only get 40 hours a week. this will go on for months. or, some days you will get sent home after 4 hours.(at this place, if there is no work they can send you home early but they have to offer you 4 hours of work. you can go before that if you want but if not you could sweep for 4 hours.
then, when it is busy i/we sometimes work 60-70 hours a week. i worked 38 days in a row once, 12 hour days.

was i being 'used'. of course. when they dont need certain people you get sent home and when they do, you live there. but, its the job.
sometimes it is so busy they ask you to come in on sundays. you dont have to but it gets noticed by the right people. then, there are mandatory sundays. again, they are using us. again, thats the job.
we dont strike. we grind it out and get our asses kicked at work and bring home a huge paycheck for the family. 30 hours of overtime is nice.
the guy i mentioned in the article i mentioned only got 20 something hours a week. that has been mentioned numerous times in this thread. that amount of hours. well, if you have a family and you only get 20 hours a week, why not get a job that pays more hours? why not pick up a second job that gives 20 hours?

it seems like there is always an excuse. there are no jobs out there? the shifts are too crazy and it's impossible to pick up another job because of that. childcare is an issue.
i will buy the childcare thing but the no jobs out there holds no water with me cause i know that is not true. the goofy schedule i will buy a little bit but it can be worked around. might take some finess but when the kids are hungry and can be done.
there is always the part time 3rd shift job. people dont want to do that though.
every area has temp agencies and the 3rd shift spots are the hardest to fill. whats wrong with that?
a lot of times they will advertise an assignment that is only part time and only for 3 weeks. well mr 20 hour mcdonalds or walmart guy can jump on that.

i really feel a great deal of them just dont want to put in the effort and there is certain places they will not consider working. i also feel they want the money but dont want to put in the effort.
-----

continued

i know some would look at a foundry or another manufacturing position as a last resort option or maybe not an option at all. i feel that way about mcdonalds and walmart. that to me is the last couple places i would seek work at but make no mistake, if i had to pay my rent or my daughter was hungry, i would absolutely become burger flipper extrordinare.

maybe its because i have always seen friends/family 'struggle' to make it and i, as well as them certainly manage and we do it without assistance. when i say struggle i mean struggle in coming up with a way to pay the bills and have some luxuries in our lives with what options we have.
my mother and step father had 4 kids at home. things were tight.
mom worked full time at a bank, step dad worked full time at a big box store running stock department 3rd shift and on weekends here and there he put in a few hours on a side job. no need to pay for child care cause they worked opposite shifts. they did this for years. they spent very little time together and 1 of them was always missing something with the kids. they did it though....they put it on the grind for years and made it through and the kids are all gone and they are doing pretty well.
they did this cause they had to. people depended on them and they did what had to be done. they didnt walk of the job demanding more pay.

there IS a minimum wage. in my opinion, for 90% of the people out there, if you are working at a minimum wage job and you are over the age of say 25 then that is their own fault in one way or another.
i get it if it is a 1st job, transitional job as an in between, or a 2nd job to make a little bit of extra cash. if it is your sole job though, then youre doing or did something wrong.
no skills? go get some-----but college takes time. college takes money. not everyone can.
well, learn a trade... same excuses...
ways around that. if your in that age range and you work at walmart and you work the register or electronics dept, what about asking for a switch to receiving or stock? get some training on a tow motor, cherry picker, electric pallet jack, bailer, rf inventory scanner.....use those skills to take somewhere else. take them to a temp service and use them to get in the door where you will learn more skills. there are a lot of jobs with a lot of companies that only hire through a service. they are not automatically a scam and there are many jobs that are temp to hire.

they complain cause they only get 25 hours a week. as i said, get a 2nd job. get a better job. if your sole income comes from a 25 hour a week minimum wage job then that is your fault.
maybe the guy at mdonalds has a record. i know someone right now that works at mcdonalds. she was in jail for 3 years for aggrivated robbery and posession of coke. that kinda makes it hard for her to get better work.
thats nobody's fault but hers though.

im just seeing lots of complaints for workers in these situations in this thread and in articles other places and i have been thinking about it for a couple days now and i come back to the fact that if they are doing that bad financially then more than likely it is their fault. not the employer.
after all they applied. walmart didnt recruit. nobody is making them stay at that job. nobody is stopping them from gaining skills.

------
this is the world we live in. could walmart afford to pay them double what they pay? of course they can..
should they? that is up for debate obviously.
when you work in the electronics department, what crazy skills do you bring to the table and utilize that warrants 10-12 an hour. the only things i see that warrant that kind of pay for that job is reliability and seniority. other than that, hell no. its a gravy job meant as a transition or for someone just entering the work force.
i dont see how people dont agree with that.

people get paid on their skills, reliability and what job they perform. where i work there are guys that have been there 15 years longer than me and i make more money. its cause of what i do and what i bring to the table. there are guys that started after i did that earn more cause of their skills and the job they perform.
a lot of it is having the drive to get there and the right attitude.

i said earlier in the thread that after about 1.5 years there i was making $5 an hour more than when i started. when i started i had manufacturing experience. i could operate the pneumatic tools. i could drive a tow motor. i could read mics and gauges... other things.
i started out there as an inspector...i bid on jobs and put the effort in...i went to their classes. i moved up fast. quality engineer now. work directly with the quality manager and the senior quality engineer(a metalurgist)
now i have skills in a metal lab. operating a spectrometer. metalography. ive learned the chemistry and grain structure involved. i do tensile testing. i setup operate and program a cnc lathe(granted im not the best programmer but im working on it

-----continued

keep in mind i am only using all this as an example. i bid on jobs and was approached for others. before i got hurt they approached me to run a faro arm. thats a huge deal in my area and im all over it. thats gonna open up a huge earning potential for me. im going to soak up all the training and do the job the best i can and market myself to other places. these skills are all going to cause doors to open up for me.

when they asked me if i wanted to learn the cnc i told them hell yes. i had never done anything with them but i told them i would dive into it 100%. ive got certifications on the wall (that they paid for) and went on the quest for knowledge. i could have said yes and just cruised through but i didnt. i asked for classes and training. i immediately went home and started reading articles and buying books. i downloaded programs that would allow me to simulate. i started reading code even though i didnt understand it. i just started working the problem.
i would grab a program for something off the net or get a program from someone and insert it into my program to run it through graphics. i started making little edits to their code(it was helping me get a working knowledge of it).
i did this for a long time.

now im able to program myself. that is a very marketable skill that will come with me if/when i leave the foundry.

i'm simply saying all this because it is possible. i did it and that means others can too. you just have to want it.
if you hate walmart and youre broke and you WANT to get out of there then you can... that is the bottom line.
the alternative might not be great. it might not be on your terms but your family will have food. there will be a roof over their head.

now about the lifestyle change. again, me as an example.
maybe these people need to get frugal with some things. cut some things out of their life untill they are in a better position.
sometimes it has to be done.

my wife and i started together in a 400 square foot apartment. we went to a tad bigger place and now we have our current house. we didnt particularly want to be in those other 2 places. you know, size, condition, neighborhood. we knew it was only temporary though. we stuck it out. mind you we are doing/did all this on only my income.
put a plan together and stick to it as close as possible. i know life dont care about your plans and the world tends to throw curve balls at you to try and set you back but you have to grind it out if you want to be in a better spot.
we didnt 'plan' on my wife getting pregnant but she did so our plans changed. that 400 square foor apartment had to go. we made a plan and we did it.

when i got hurt i got a little bit of money. i bought a couple cars....nothing new. nothing fancy but i could have. i was frugal though.
i paid 2 grand for one of them. had high miles but i owned it and it was paid off.
we looked at the house we were in now and i had to put some money together for it. i did. no problem. a couple weeks before we were set to move the water pump blew and cause lots of damage. of course it was going to be huge money to fix. it was a foreign car. duel overhead cam, water pump runs off the timing chain. just a nightmare.
i didnt have the cash to fix it. we need a vehicle though. i could have went and took on a payment for a used late model. i didnt think that with getting the new house it would have been a good idea to have a $250 a month payment for 48 months staring at me.
so, i gave a guy that car and $250 bucks for a 1987 chevy nova. thats right. one of the ugliest cars around. its solid though. 1 owner.. i have all records and it only has 60k miles on it.

frugal, frugal, frugal. i certainly wasnt super happy about driving that car. smart thing to do though.

i know i am rambling but i am just trying to cite first hand examples of things that i have done to make life work.
-----
i guess in the end, for the 10th time i just dont feel like these low skilled workers deserve more than what they make and more often than not it is their own fault that they are stuck in that spot. there are things they can do to change their situation. some(a lot) just dont want to put the effort in.
my brother used to work at a pizza shop before i got him in at the foundry. one day i went to the office for something and i saw a guy that used to work their with him. we talked and he said he was there for orientation. landed an entry level spot chipping and grinding. super crappy, physical, kick your butt kind of job. it was gonna pay him a little under $5 an hour more than he was making at a straight 40 hours and at the time the chippers were doing 5, 10 hour days. he was a guy always complaing about being broke and this and that.
well, he went to his orientation and they gave him his tools and put him in a booth.
at the time i was looking for defects on some of the castings his group was working on so i would see him.
he lasted 2 days. never came back on the 3rd day.

1 more continue than finished

now to living wage. what is living wage? for what area?
for how many people.

lets talk about a single guy or a family of two. man and wife or man and fiance'

what would he/she need to make to be considered to be at living wage?

let me try to work it out. gonna use myself again before my daughter was born. family of two.

apartment---400 a month
cable/internet------100 a month
electric---65 a month
gas for car---80 a month
cell phones--100 a month
groceries-----400 a month
car insurance--75 a month

^^^^^^^^^^^thats $1,220 a month

of course that can be adjusted here and there depending on lifestyle and to toss in entertainment.

$9 an hour at 40 hours before taxes is $1,440 a month

so, what am i missing here.
is it the fact that mr walmart is a pack a day smoker? well we can call that $175 a month. is his lady a pack a day smoker? damn, thats $350 a month.

im thinking thats probably something that can be cut out.
do they like to go out and have a few drinks here and there? together or he with the fellas and her for a ladiees night...
hmmmmm. if their drinking domestic bottles thatd prob around $3 a beer. if they like the daquries then we are talking $6 a pop.
if they go out and he has 3 beers and she has 3 daquries thats $27. do that a couple nights a week and it adds up fast.
better cut that out.

they talking on their verizon contracted iphone 5s or galaxy s2? dont even know what that runs including the phone.
you can get a damn nice windows phone for $100 bucks and an unlimited data plan prepaid style for $50 a month to drop that bill. hell, you can get a simple flip phone from straight talk for $20 and pay $30 a month for service to drop it even further.
---------------

just a few examples cause im trying to tie this living wage in with the lifestyle and come up with a figure...
cause to me, going by this simple and fast list i just calculated if she works 25 hours at walmart at $8 an hour and he works 25 hours a week at mcdonalds for $8 an hour then theyre going to make it.
wont me a lot of extras in their near future but hey, they are 'living' right. they are eating and have a roof and haf cable to watch the newest season of americas biggest loser and a computer to facebook with and that phone for 9,000 text messages a monrh.

they certainly dont make enough to drive a new car or have children but there are solutions to that too. dont drive a new car and use protection....millions of people seem to be able to be responsible and do just that. there are millions more that could also.... and should

im just not uderstanding.

in the end, still no sympathy(or very very little) for 25 year old mcdonalds guy with 3 kids that cant support them but then complains about being used when he is given hours that he asked for.

i'll say again. i think a great deal of these people feel entitled and i think they feel they deserve the wage but have no desire to put the time/effort in to EARN the wage.
i have read every post in this thread and my position still stands.

i probably wasted my time though. i just wanted to get it out there. probably gonna have another member here simply call me a 'special kind of stupid'.

i'm assuming im a special kind of stupid cause i plan on going back to the foundry when i get off comp even though i amputated one of my fingers.
well, to that i say i guess i'm going it partly cause i LACK certain skills. i do not have a college degree. i'm not a white collar guy. the skills i have puts me in that industry. i suppose i did that to myself.
the other part is i have a wife and baby daughter and they depend on me and they will not be let down. like everything else, i have a plan. i will stay in the industry but once i get cranking on that faro arm i will take that skill and run.


hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. maybe i should go get a job at walmart and then complain i dont get paid enough and demand more per hour. i would like to work in the ac.

i could team up with mcdonalds guy and complain about lack of hours and ask for more than cry when i get them.

i'm simply not from that school.
you work and you take care of your family. bottom line.

sorry for the long winded babble. i had a lot to say.

good bye from the special stupid cardiff giant

Originally posted by sirhumperdink

weeeell a democratic government is supposed to be run by the people so if in controlling wages the government is enacting the will of the majority of the populace it can be argued that this is simply the labour force leveraging for higher wages

You do realize that the goverment of the US is a Constitutional Republic, NOT a democracy right?

Calling the US a democracy is like saying communism and socialism are the same thing. Similar? Yes. The same thing? No.

Our government has it's hands in everything already and has massively screwed up everything it touches. How do you think them interjecting themselves further in is going to magically make it all better?

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doobydoll

macman
You're choosing to ignore my answers in my posts to you and I don't want to continuously repeat myself, so it is pointless debating with you. You have a blinkered and single-minded view of life and people, because you choose to be that way.

That's what greed and avarice does to you.

edit on 2-8-2013 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

What greed?
Oh, I get it. You calling me greedy is your definition of me wanting to keep what I earned.

Okay then, ya got me. I am greedy. Oh shucks. I shall go cry in the corner.

Or, maybe now I am motivated to hire a CPA that will drop my taxes from around 35% to 15% and keep more of what I earned,
Thanks, I have been looking for a solid reason to do that. I can thank you for it.

If you want to debate this any further, let me know. Or, just slink back under the Progressive rock and avoid being challenged on your BS.

Yes you are greedy. And I can tell you know you are.

You can't keep everything you earn no matter what you do, you have no say in the matter and no choice.

Overpaid workers like you will always pay more than anyone else to the working poor because you have to pay more tax. So poor workers will always be given more of your money than anyone else's. I bet that really sticks in your throat until you gag. And the less Walmart and the likes pay their workers, ever more of your money than anyone else's will be taken from you and paid to them, because you earn more.

So mr 'educated' company senior, you better get back to ya office desk sharpish and do plenty more over-paid and unproductive pen-pushing - poor folk need your money

People like you will always want more than you already have, and because greed can never be satiated, it will condemn you to spend your entire lives coveting and chasing that extra dollar.

Then you die and someone else takes it.

reply to post by CardiffGiant


This is what I have and spend, and if I can anyone can.

400 month = all utilities paid loft apartment
300 a month = groceries for two
100 a month = medicine
25 a month = doctor (I dont see him every month but this about works out)
100 a month = public transportation costs for two (MUCH Cheaper than a car and insurance)
45 a month = phone (we just have one phone, dont see the need for two currently)
0.00 a month = television.... (dont need cable, regular channels work fine)
0.00 a month = internet (there is free internet in our area)
50 a month = unexpected expenditures and household cleaning supplies
_________________________________________________________________________

Total = 1,020 a month cost of living

I work for minimum wage 50 hours or so a week... my take home after taxes probably averages 635 every two weeks.....

total income = 1270 a month
________________________________

250 a month extra...could be used for anything I want!

Oh, I did forget laundry... was wondering why there seemed more extra! Anyway, Tuesday is half price laundry day at the local laundry mat so when you do your laundry on Tuesdays you only spend 20 dollars a week... I am thrifty and do my laundry on tuesday.... cost: 80 a month.... if I was not thrifty, you still cant spend more than 160 a month! so... lets say I am not thrifty....

250 extra
160 laundry
___________

90 dollars extra...

and as if this is not enough, you can spend 2 hours per visit, twice a week, and donate plasma for 60 a week total.... if you are consistent... you could be helping out your fellow human (as plasma is used in research for cures for varying diseases) and making 240 a month.... so... if you are a humanitarian who would like to make some extra cash... we can add to this 90.00 extra and make it into 330 a month extra.....

with donation = 330 a month more than what is spent on necessities..... cant beat it with a stick.....


There are things I did and looked at... moving to a city where public transportation was available was one. moving to a city where cost of living was low and wages good and jobs plentiful was another. I researched and thought it out before I moved here. I moved here, to this exact location on purpose, because I knew for this stage I was not going to have money and I needed to be able to live cheap.

I dont understand the whole its too expensive where I live that some say... I say people should research and move, plan your life, do things to get ahead so your not on the bottom of the totem pole.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

Total = 1,020 a month cost of living

I work for minimum wage 50 hours or so a week... my take home after taxes probably averages 635 every two weeks.....

total income = 1270 a month

You're not the slightest bit bothered that someone working your same job back in 1960 would've made, per two weeks, what you make in a month? You value yourself 50% less as a worker?

reply to post by CardiffGiant


CardiffGiant, I apologize for my comment yesterday. It was uncalled for.
After posting, I took few hours away from ATS as things were getting a bit frustrating.

This topic seems to have divided ATS members quite a bit, and it looks like we're just not going to see eye-to-eye on this. Anyway, I do apologize. Politics aside, I shouldn't have been so harsh.

reply to post by Garkiniss


Other people who have experience in this country in my field make more money than I do... some a lot more....

I am not the slightest bit bothered because I (and only I) accepted this job with this pay.... no one forced me to, no one held a gun to my head and made me accept something.... I did, and at that time it was quite acceptable and reasonable for me to accept it.

My boss is allowing me the platform for experience on top of education, where I can take that experience, if I use it wisely, and leave here making twice my pay working less hours when I find the right company to work for who would find me an asset to their company....

Until then, I live just fine, have all my needs met, and am gaining experience that is, to me, priceless.....

I do not feel anyone has wronged me or taken undo advantage.