D.C. Council votes to Force Walmart to pay "living wage"--50% over minimum wage.

Originally posted by SaneThinking
My opinion, you want a living wage go and get it. Some jobs are training jobs, starting jobs, gain experience sort of jobs. Jobs that you begin, you learn, you improve upon your skill set then move on.

When did a starting job become a career is what I think I missed out on, when did people with no skills decide that even though they have not improved, have not gained useful knowledge decide that, they are now better and entitled to more money, all the while not providing any extra use to the employer.

This is the beginning of an even greater handout society, the people who fell off and decided not to get with the program will now be given more money, all the while that person who went and got a skilled job (trades, labour) get what? To work harder and have to learn more to get more money. All the while the walmart greeter with a menial set of skills is entitled to a wage increase to whats called a livable wage.

Well what is a livable wage, is it a wage where you have cable, internet, a brand new I-phone, data plan, car with insurance, eat out. Or is it a wage where you get bye make ends meet, and strive for better. All the while not enjoying luxury, because they realize the value of a dollar they have to "earn"

In my opinion we are creating an even larger pool of bottom feeders how many people already on food stamps unwilling to do more because they have it easy already. How many more people at jobs that need no skill are going to ask for more, and how much more can a company give, when in turn they get nothing in return.

To me this is just as bad as when they increased minimum wage here, and some lauded it others such as myself couldn't understand how across the board raises for nothing were warranted and it seems employers did too and cut staff and raised prices because what equates more to an entitlement that common sense had done damage to there business.

You want a living wage do as those have before you, work for it, don't expect it, the more people we raise expecting something for nothing, then the more hands out we will always have, and less people willing to do what it takes to succeed because, doing nothing just seems easier.

SaneThinking

A cashier... ringing up items at the same store for 15 years is probably faster and more efficient than one that just started 2 days ago. Especially one that has improved by memorizing bar code numbers for the fruits and vegetables and other items that frequently lose stickers. Improvement doesn't mean that one has to learn a different skill. One can improve in what they currently do.

At the same time, that cashier that has been there for 15 years and doesn't give a crap anymore because they've reached their maximum salary will probably not be kind, fast, or attempt to memorize new bar codes.

Something occurred to me in this debate. Rather than complain about some place like Walmart paying low wages, as if we're all DYING to work there if only they paid more (??), I'd suggest people go get themselves educated for a career. Not a job. There is a huge difference.

Now, I'm not a bunny to just say stuff like that and walk away, figuring I told everyone to get a college education and so, their problem if they don't. Nope... I'll be REAL specific about it.

The area I'm pursuing an eventual Master's degree in is G.I.S. or Geo-Information-Systems, also sometimes referred to as Geo-Spatial Sciences. It's not easy. It's very science and math (ugh) based work. However, I say it here because it's VERY high demand work A 2 year Associates in the Mid-West takes an entry level field tech position at around $38,000/yr. That is roughly what I made trucking and more than many here make today running for Prime, JB Hunt or Trailiner, to name a few major national companies.

2 years of school to go in as a flunky, making a comfortable middle class in the Midwest. ...but here's what matters. The Job boards from Government to State to Private are FLOODED with openings for this field because of those who even known it exists early enough to major in, few seem to want the work and science involved.

Making a living isn't HARD...it just takes work and a career is something Walmart can never offer. Aim higher than a bottom scraping job unless someone really IS Entry-Level to the working world...then be happy to get that much.

Lotsa people here don't live in reality, spew the mainstream news garbage, lies, wishful thinking, religion, military bull# way of thinking.

If you want to gauge your supposed success in a way other than looking at those who are less fortunate than you as being failures, figure out how long you would last if you lost your job and had no income for say, 6 months .

Most of you would be on the street, a lot of you loudly yammering, overly opinionated ones would put a gun in your mouth and selfishly end your misery leaving the mess for someone else to clean up.

Most of you are exactly the problem in this country, it has very little to do with welfare recipients, disabled, unemployment and so on, they only take a little over 1% of tax dollars collected.

It has to do with ruthlessness, selfishness, plain old meanness. A lot of you emulate those who stand with a jackboot poised over your face to stomp your head flat if you don't tow the line.

This is a country of little more than cave-men, animals who somehow think they're important for some reason.

I'm sorry (no, not really) but reading a lot of this gets so tiring, and it's really depressing to see how far down society has sank.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Target is not the same as Walmart. They are 2 very distinct business models and in what they offer to the consumer.

How so?... please explain as I don't see a difference.

They both sell the same consumer products. They are both retail stores. They both sell groceries. I remember a day when Target didn't sell groceries, now they do. They're growing just like Walmart once did when KMart was on top. Target is waiting for their chance to make the move.

Different business models... maybe. Different brands... some. Same goods.

Don't know about your area, but here, most Targets are mostly home items and clothing. Walmarts are mostly grocery stores, with house wares and clothing.

But, who is to say that Target will pay this wage to their employees.

I know I wouldn't.

edit on 31-7-2013 by macman because: (no reason given)

I see... your Targets aren't like the ones we have. All of our Targets have a grocery section just like Walmart. Again... this is why I say that Target is up and rising and looking for the right opportunity to take over.

I'm not saying Target will pay their wages... I'm saying if Walmart takes the risk of increasing their prices because of this, or just moving out, then they will be losing business either way. Giving Target a chance to come in and take over their stronghold inside DC. Target is already taking those advances toward it.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


When going through school to get to where I am today, I lived in a sublet basement suit with 5 other students. 4 of the six had bedrooms two slept on the couches. And drew names out of a hat each month to account for the arrangement.

Food was purchased in bulk, mainly pasta and pasta sauce, luxury was a word of luxury that we did not speak, yes struggle ensued, but guess what that's life. Unless born with a silver spoon we all have to fight and claw for everything we have.

If people could understand now a days what living within there means was we'd be much better off. But alas the drones of the world feel left out without the newest gadget, or if they didn't catch some trash TV so they can join in on the workplace banter.

At that time I was working 6 days every 2 weeks due to school and studying I was getting less then the $900 you went and set as a benchmark. Did I eat well "NO", did I get things I wanted "NO" was I happy "NO"

Was it a necessary struggle "YES" because I realized that there are no handouts unless you are willing to accept them, and that you can conquer any obstacle with hard work perserverance and a boat load of street smarts thrifty shopping and being willing to demean oneself and practice humility to get to where you want to go.

Complain all you want about how awful society is, but fact check the idea it's not going to get better magically, pray all you want but the only thing I have found that works is starting from the bottom up, look at and within yourself. But never look to others or everyone for something that each person is responsible for and that's "themselves"

If a person can't pull themselves up to learn, acquire, and put to use even the menial skills to get to the next level they have no one but themselves to blame.

My opinion issued from someone who struggled, fought, sweated and bled at many a job, to see success, never once complaining that I bring nothing advanced to the table although asking for more.

I don't know your personal circumstances but one thing I do know is the employer, your neighbor, the guy on the corner they didn't put you there, and keep you there, "YOU" did!! And only those who pursue and seek better ever get it, seek to be average and normal with no ambition to go anywhere, then there you will be until an attitude of entitlement is swapped for the attitude of the common human who struggles and fights to succeed.

Unitl then I feel all who make min wage should not complain that they did not acquire a skill set that would get them more, or have that skill set and are willing to settle for something below there pay grade. But I will never advocate paying someone more money to do nothing, because in the real world, that isn't "fair" and is based on a fiat currency model of wealth. You either make it or you don't but should never expect it to be given.


SaneThinking

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Garkiniss
"Better Themselves." And how much "Better" is the CEO of a corporation than his average floor worker? I'd like you to put a dollar percentage amount on what you believe that difference is. I'm curious how much "better" you tell yourself these people are.

A CEO of a corporation is much more valuable to a company than a cashier.

It has very little responsibility.

Really? The person taking in the money is not valuable and doesn't have a VERY important role to the company??? I bet if the cashier starts "losing" cash daily this mindset changes.

My old boss told me when I was hired to management in the Department of Treasury "Your team of employees are what gives you your job. If you don't take care of them, then they won't take care of the job. I had to lear this the hard way... it took me 20 years to get it right. If I'd known then what I do now, I would have made SES. But I was selfish to the point that they didn't take care of me." I wrote down his exact words and that same piece of paper sits alongside of my DoD awards on my desk.

I guess the soldier isn't as important as the Secretary of Defense. The SECDEF can do it all alone.

The General or SOD has always been more valuable then the foot soldier.

Disagree. The General only gets more privilege and safety. He gives orders. The job can't be done without those to do the work. The General isn't a good General unless his command does a good job. In order for them to do a good job he gives awards to those worthy. He can step promote when it's earned. He looks out for his crew just as much as he does the job that must be done. This is what I learned to do before I was medically retired as a Captain in the USAF.

I'm seeing something interesting here. . .

I can almost tell who is older and who is younger. The older people seem to be the ones telling people to shut up, go back to school, find a better job yada yada. The younger people are trying desperately to make the older folks understand that it's not that easy.

You see, in the 60's a man could work at a grocery store stocking produce and raise a family. He could afford a small track house with a modest late model car. He worked what we now consider a "unskilled job".

And this is why the debate goes on and on. Older people had things much differently than today's youth. They could afford to go back to school on a minimum wage job. Today, someone making minimum wage doesn't have the money OR the time to go back to school. How can you feed yourself if you are going to school and not working? Get a part time job? No one can survive on that.

People of the baby boomer generation were able to buy more with their money and cement their wealth. They were actually able to "build something for themselves". This is almost a dream for a lot of youth today.

My father went to work for a company and did so for over 30 years until he retired. This isn't happening today. "Climbing the corporate ladder" isn't really a realistic option. Today, it's almost impossible to start off at the bottom run in a company and work your way up, because open positions are often filled from outside the company. Today's youth see this and company loyalty is at an all time low. I think I read that most young workers only stick with a company for 5 years or so on average.

Getting out of college, even with marketable skills and having 100k in student loan debt is a distressing and a depressing reality for today's youth. This wasn't the case when my parents went to college. Sure, you had to have good grades to get in, and you had to study and work hard -- but it was affordable and attainable to people that sought it out.

The level of apathy among today's youth is directly linked to the grim reality that no matter how hard they work, how much they try to better or improve themselves they won't be able to build a personal wealth the likes of their parents. Sadly, that money has floated to the top via multi-national corporations over the decades.

Older folks just don't understand what today's 20-somethings entering the work force have to look forward to. On the converse, today's youth also don't understand what it means to work hard and climb the ladder to success like their parents did, as it's much harder today. It is this generational divide, along with income inequality that is causing all of the disagreement over fair and livable wages.

I want to thank everyone from both sides of the fence, this is really an eye-opening discussion and I am learning quite a bit from everyone. We might disagree on our social/economic opinions, but we can learn from each other by expressing our viewpoints.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I'm 25, hope that counts as young.

I for one bevel that Wal-Mart has the capability to pay its employees a little more. That being said, this does not mean that a job as a cashier or a job stocking shelves guarantees you the quality of life as seen in a Norman Rockwell painting.

Not all jobs are created equal, if you want a job as a dishwasher you should be prepared to live on a wage that is deserving of such work. Don't expect to be able to buy a house, a brand new car, or a huge flat screen TV.

A job should provide you enough income to provide you with a roof over your head, food in your mouth, and a shirt on your back; you can make enough at McDonalds as a cashier to have all that and even more.

To be honest the quality of life we have in the west spoils many people. We are not entitled to own a house, or have the financial capabilities to raise four children. If you want to have these things you have to work hard for them. Go to any other country outside the western world and see how the poor live and then compare that to the poor who live in this country, it is drastically different. Poverty in this country should be addressed, but the poor in the west are far better off than the poor in China, or India, or countries in central Africa.


reply to post by MystikMushroom


I'm 25 as well.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Interesting post, I see it a little bit differently. In my opinion, the baby boomer generation was just spoiled terribly by their parents. They were raised believing that someone else owed them everything they needed in life. The baby boomers grew up and milked the system, and implemented their laws until the 2000's when the system couldn't take it anymore.

There are too many people in the world, it's absulutly impossible for everyone to be rich. I'm really sorry to say it, but the world needs ditch diggers too.

People lived like complete animals until pretty recently in history, and I think we should all focus on how good we have it instead of how bad we have it.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Something occurred to me in this debate. Rather than complain about some place like Walmart paying low wages, as if we're all DYING to work there if only they paid more (??), I'd suggest people go get themselves educated for a career. Not a job. There is a huge difference.

I would agree, but there are people who simply cannot do this. Public education in DC is horrible unless you're wealthy enough to live in the Georgetown area of your parents can send you to public school. Mothers are having to work multiple jobs just to keep a section 8 roof over their head. Those same mothers can't spend the appropriate time with their children studying and assisting with home because they're at their second or third job. The teenager is often left to pick the younger child up from daycare/elementary school, fix food, feed, and bathe the child. There's no money for college. Because of the lack of good education and responsibilities this teenager had, s/he can't get into college on scholarship.

What's left... other than some minimum wage job? How can this person move out of his mother's house when now s/he is grown and mom quit her second job because she's getting too old and tired to keep doing this? If they do move out, they'll surely have to get a roomate who may sell marijuana on the side and lead them to the risk of going to jail for posession or distribution.

This is true life for these people... spend 2 days talking to a teenager living urban parts of DC. Their life as an adult starts at 12 or 13 years old... those who actually have aspirations but the family has no money anyways. I'm not talking about suburban kids, or those that just don't want anything. I'm talking about those that actually have goals... they can't get there because they have greater responsibility than their goals.

Originally posted by Openeye
To be honest the quality of life we have in the west spoils many people. We are not entitled to own a house, or have the financial capabilities to raise four children. If you want to have these things you have to work hard for them. Go to any other country outside the western world and see how the poor live and then compare that to the poor who live in this country, it is drastically different. Poverty in this country should be addressed, but the poor in the west are far better off than the poor in China, or India, or countries in central Africa.


reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

I'm 25 as well.

edit on 31-7-2013 by Openeye because: (no reason given)

Thank you, excellent post!! If I could give you a million stars or reps or whatever it's called I would!!!

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
Lotsa people here don't live in reality, spew the mainstream news garbage, lies, wishful thinking, religion, military bull# way of thinking.

If you want to gauge your supposed success in a way other than looking at those who are less fortunate than you as being failures, figure out how long you would last if you lost your job and had no income for say, 6 months .

Most of you would be on the street, a lot of you loudly yammering, overly opinionated ones would put a gun in your mouth and selfishly end your misery leaving the mess for someone else to clean up.

Most of you are exactly the problem in this country, it has very little to do with welfare recipients, disabled, unemployment and so on, they only take a little over 1% of tax dollars collected.

It has to do with ruthlessness, selfishness, plain old meanness. A lot of you emulate those who stand with a jackboot poised over your face to stomp your head flat if you don't tow the line.

This is a country of little more than cave-men, animals who somehow think they're important for some reason.

I'm sorry (no, not really) but reading a lot of this gets so tiring, and it's really depressing to see how far down society has sank.

Thank goodness you said it. I don't think this is everyone that's disagreeing with DC politicians on this issue, but I surely agree with your assessment!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Heh, we use GIS here. It's really quite fascinating.

Having said that, I am the only person in my entire state that does the job I do, and no one knows more about my job than myself. Someone will always be required by law to do what I do, so my job security is pretty good. Do I think I should get paid more? Yeah, sometimes. However, I understand that this job is just a stepping stone to a better one, one that will afford me the extra income so that I can take a few classes at the college. My folks are older than most (late 60's) and they taught me the value of hard work and self discipline.

I attend any kind of job-applicable training courses available, and I attend national conferences to network and learn about job/career opportunities. I am one of the lucky ones, however. I don't have a college degree and I have made my way by using my job experience to substitute for education.

Early on I decided I didn't want to do manual labor or work retail. I decided to get into the financial sector, from the bottom. That was probably one of the smartest decisions I have ever made. Banking experience can be translated and taken into real estate, accounting, and many other fields. What I did was look long term once I decided not to continue school. I asked myself, "What non-retail, food service jobs have entry level positions that one can move up in just on experience?"

If I did my job in the 60's, I would have a house 3 times the size and a much newer car. I'd also probably be married because, let's face it those wedding rings aren't cheap and I don't see myself anytime being able to afford one for her.

If I made minimum wage, I would find it very difficult to afford the money or time for school. Even a 2 year business admin associates would be hard to obtain working minimum wage jobs. Some people don't have any family to move in with while going to school. Some people make just above the cut-off to quality for grants and scholarships.

It's not a black and white issue, and it bothers me that people here are trying to make it out that way. It's also ironic that the people telling others to better themselves probably aren't millionaires. Do as I say, not as I do?

I know you are bettering yourself, so that wasn't directed at you.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I am actually 41, sorry to throw a wrinkle in your hypothesis but I for the most part agree.

You are actually dealing with business owners here that believe people are trying to "steal" their money, forgetting the fact that their success was built on the back of people working for them, from their sweat does a company succeed.

Then you got plain out, evil, non caring greed ... They are easy to see, they are all over this thread too. Most probably come from wealthy families and don't even know what it means to claw their way out out of anything, they feel power knowing there are those beneath them. They built nothing, it was handed to them and then they try and convince us they deserve it, people are trying to "steal" what they got and tell others to work harder to achieve what they did nothing to earn.

It does no use to try and reason with them, they believe they deserve to be at the top and to solidify their position there must be those at the bottom, but being at the bottom ain't enough ... They want people to suffer and feel agony and pain. Truly, evil demented people.

Sad really but it is what it is. You can't have good without evil.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by benrl

 

I Always love when a municipality sticks it to Walmart.

Portland has done so on similar matters, not allowing them to build where they want etc.

It would be nice if Walmart and other companies take their products and JOBS elsewhere when confronted with crappy legislation like this.

Be nice if they implemented a living minimum wage everywhere, but that will never happen.

All that would do is put small businesses out of business and force the surviving businesses to raise prices to astronomical levels to compensate. Say hello to a $20 happy meal, $10 gallon of milk, etc.

Don’t you get it? The money has to come from somewhere! Companies can't print money from thin air like our failed government.

Don't you get it the whole system is being propped up by constant pumping of newly printed money, the government has "Managed" the economy into the way it is now.

There is no easy fix to the problems that we face, and its the governments mismanagement of it all is to blame.

We allow cheap export tax from china, which sends manufacturing base out of the country, Walmart reaps two benefits there.

Cheap labor due to the outflow of higher income based jobs, and cheep goods now no longer made in the US.

We then give Walmart additional tax breaks for giving people who where previous unemployed, and we subsidize their employees for not making enough to live off of.

Mean while Walmart has driven out all the small business owners, and when we try to get their employees health care they whine about lost jobs while making record profits.

All due to the government messing with the economy, something needs to be done.

Why is it okay for Walmart to get all these government tax breaks to help them make billions, but the employees no screw them they are on their own.

Here is a link to a movie which I recently stumbled upon, which covers most of what I was taught in college regarding the current state of things in the world, although it took some 20 years for me to realize what it was they were trying to teach me there....

metanoia-films.org...


It's a longer movie than many of your attention spans will allow you to take in, and if you can't even do that just keep working your crappy nowhere job and don't ask any questions, reality will go away, yes.....

Christ people.

Minimum Wage is not meant to live on or be a' living wage'.

It is called downward mobility get paid a lot of money for pushing a broom and stacking a shelf!!!

Crap jobs are meant to be stepping stones to get something better.

DC council is as stupid as they come.

reply to post by SilentKillah


I hate to sound cold and I know this will, but move. As someone else mentioned, D.C. is a hard hard place to be if you're not on the political side of town or among the suburbs where the politico types hang their hat every night. I'd say D.C. is almost hard in a way that's unique. Not quite...as a couple other places are almost equally hopeless to ever come back UP in, once down ...but close.

Get out into the Midwest or Western states where cost of living isn't saying $50,000 is a living wage. Geeze... I owe all of $50,000 on my primary residence for total payoff amount and it's no dump. A nice middle class post war build in a solid middle class city neighborhood. I do wonder sometimes, for the serious poverty cases? How much the reluctance to just take the chance and get out of an unwinnable situation plays into it. I can understand the whys...the fears of the unknown and huge risk. In a place like D.C. tho? If we're arguing over minimum wage jobs for THAT cost of living, someone's already lost, it would seem to me?

D.C. Council votes to Force Walmart to pay "living wage"--50% over minimum wage

In this day and age, a 'living wage' is a tough nut to crack. Exactly what is that wage? The cost of things we depend on depends solely on the ability of the business to price them to be affordable. If they are forced to jack wages for people who basically just stock shelves and run registers, then the price goes up and the living wage one gets suddenly becomes much less.

This is not, in any way, to defend Wally or their payscales. But it does recognize that as wages go up in any market, so does the cost of the products being sold. As such... to raise one end of the see-saw, is to raise the other and then we're back to where it all began.

My personal opinion is that the current situation is almost, by definition, intentional. The globalist agenda stripped this nation of its middle class jobs and left the people to positions like those at Walmart and McDonalds... and now if we demand more pay, we also accept the cost of living going up and all our wonderful paycheck being just as useless as before.

The problem isn't in Bentonville, Arkansas... it's in Washington, DC.